Thirteen

LAST EDITED ON Mar-18-04 AT 12:10 PM (CDT)
 
was sifting through Mr. Wilk's CD of magazine planes and articles and came across the Twelve and Thirteen by John Ritter. Looks just like my kind of stunter. Anyone ever build one? I thought there was a thread on this, but the search on "john ritter thirteen" turned up nothing. Was also reading Wild Bill's Barecat 650 article on the throne the same day. Looks like they both had similar ideas. Ever meet John, Wild Bill?

Rudimentary scaleup on the plan shows a 15% thick wing, about 500 squares, 5.8 aspect ratio, a high aspect 20% tail. Should weigh around 25 ounces, since it has only a clear dope finish. The article says he built it in 3 days, which I can believe. I might've taken an extra day to let the dope dry!

I ended up with a copy of the 13's plan somehow; don't recall buying it by itself, and I've had this for about 25 years. The one that Tom Dixon has is from mine. I have always thought it looked terribly homely, from the first time I saw it in the magazine.

.

Kiwi

Phil,

I seem to recall Keith Trostle suggesting the Thirteen as a possible project for me. Thin airfoil and high aspect ratio (possible wing flex if built according to the plans) were two things he commented on. Contact him when he gets back from VSC.

The 12 and maybe the 13 are old time legal. They came out after the cut off date but were built before it. This was thrashed about a few years ago and I think the Pampa mag. had some comments on it.
Ed

Phil,

Jim Johnson, sometimes signing as James C. Johnson on his infrequent posts here, is a local guy--Olympia, Washington--and has been all over both of these models. I think he wrote an article for Stunt News, has been to the home of designer, etc., etc.

Jim is the same fellow who has written a book on CL and related memorabilia. I have seen galley proofs and recently an actual copy of the book, but it was from a proof run, I believe, and was not for sale.

I am assuming both of these designs were included in the book you can't yet buy.

See how helpful I am today?

There is also a Jim Johnson down in Escondido Ca. that sells full sized plans for this plane. He goes by Skystone on Da Bay. Nice plans and sends them rolled.

Bill

he actually goes by skystone01 on the bay!

I can do the same thing with plans if needed....I have the 12 and 13 also.

grtbaby, I would like a set of the 12.

Bill

Dear Mr. Rutherford, the book is available and I have copy. I was pleased to see a few of the rare kits and engines I sold to your cousin, Mr Robert Parker, are in this book.

At the last VSC and two years ago, there was a 12 and a 13. Yes, they are homely. But so much so that ya just gotta build one. I have at least one magazine with one of them in it, Flying Models I believe. Well, I believed wrong. Aha, in the PAMPA book on Classics, the "Twelve" was published in the Novemember 54 issue of Model Airplane News, Jack Ritner. When I look at the side view, I think of the cartoon dog, "Droopy". The "Thirteen" was published in the January 1958 issue of MAN. At first glance they look the same, but it stops there. Lots of differences except for the deep front of the side view of the fuselage. AT ten minutes before closing and one more beer, they don't look all that bad. heh, heh.

My C/L mentor, John Abbott, had a Twelve powered with an OS Max-1 29 (or 35). I never flew it, but subsequently built a Thirteen for my $6.27 Forster 29F. My recollection is that both planes flew very well.
Forster-Appelt had a great trade-in deal. You sent an old engine plus $6.27 and they sent you a new Forster! A friend and I ordered $1.49 WenMacs from AHC and had them posted to F-A as our trade-in! They were nice people and didn't ask for extra postage to Australia.
These ringed frv Forsters were a really fine engine, beautifully made and with similar power to a Fox 29. We were used to the high lugs, having flown Frog 500s.
regards

David,
I remember seeing a front induction Forster NIB (on ebay) that had a set of blocks that were used as spacers so the bearers would be centered with the crankshaft.
You bring up a good point that when building an OT ship, you must check whether the ship is set up for centered mount or high mount and perhaps adjust accordingly. Otherwise you may end up with an engine that is not centered...might make it a bit hard to use with a spinner.

>had a set of blocks that were used as spacers<
The packing blocks were an optional extra and were not included in the $6.27 pricetag!
The Twelve and Thirteen were very straight-forward designs with an easy engine bay set-up.
Does anyone else have experience with the Forster? I recall Bob Gialdini used one in his Olympic.
regards

LAST EDITED ON Mar-22-04 AT 00:39 AM (CDT)
 
>I thought there was a thread on this, but the
>search on "john ritter thirteen" turned up nothing.

I also recall a thread on this, tried a simpler search for "Twelve Thirteen", and still got nothing. But it struck me as if the last name was spelled Ritten, or something other than Ritter. Maybe. I emailed this thread to our NW Stunt Historian, Jimmy Johnson. He's built both designs, I think. Bumping this thread up so he'll find it on page #1. Steve

As several of you have written, I have built both airplanes and have coresponded with K. Trostle on "13". The history and story of these two planes is highlighted in a small write up in my new book Flying Model Collectibles and on the "credited" Designer, John "Jack" Ritner. He resides in Sacramento and still has planes that fly clock wise from the late 40s early 50s. The original "13" was crashed about 10 years ago by Dave Marshall. "12" is a pretty straight forward plane until you get to the gas tank. I built mine as per plans but would recomend that something else be tried. The tank is too small for a full pattern and just barely makes the OT pattern, it is about 2 3/4 oz. This wing will warp if you try to use contest grade balsa for the ribs, another spar "1/8 could be added to the wing about 2/3 from the leading edge. Also note that the plans in the magazine are for a 44" ws model but the real "12" used a 36" wing spar with 2" tips added. John said that there nothing he could do after the plans came out. The original designer was Norm Wilson for both planes. Now, let me tell you about "13". 1st don't try to save weight in the wrong places. The wing takes a little thinking ahead to make it come out right, mine didn't. Also think ahead on the elevator horn on "13". Both planes will build tail heavy no matter what you do, the short nose on "12" with a Fox .29 needed a couple oz of weight. Watch out how you place the needle valve, mine came out on the exhaust side and it gets a little hot and oily when running the plane. "13" was a little better balance wise. There is an article on "13" by Jim Harris in the past year or two under Ball Park Flyers in Stunt News. I used a Fox 35 with 3 1/2 oz. uniflow tank. This was made removable from the side facing the circle, aka Tom Dixon's "Parxis". Keith noted that he was sure this plane would be capable of doing the regular pattern respectfully. If the plane flies too fast on a 10x6 Top Flite go to a 10x5 and lower 5% nitro. fly both on 57' 6" lines. Too much nose weight is better than not enough, don't make the mistake of not balancing these planes, real important as they are unforgiving. "12" will come in at 26-28oz and "13" will come in at around 30 oz. a little more weight on this plane won't hurt say up to 34 oz. The book is now done and availble from me, I don't want to sell it here but I can be contacted at [email protected] or call me @ 360 786 5712. I tried hard to make this a book that didn't end up on the scrap pile after reading it, I still find it a fun book for the knowledgable and those that don't have a clue. Even my mother remarked that it was well written and a nice book. Most recently I received a copy of John Brown's book on Dan Calkin and his Elf engines, a wonderful book. John sent me a copy after I sent him a copy of my book for his collection and contributions to Flying Model Collectibles. He is quoted as saying " Your book is the greatest thing on model airplanes to come along in many years, My compliments to you", John Brown. If anyone knows about books on models, he does, he has the largest collection of books on model airplanes in the world. Feel free to get in touch with me on this project, Jim J.

Jim, thanks for your post. I'm wondering if you know anything more about how Ritner and Wilson both designed the airplane. Were they friends, and Ritner did the publishing work, or what? Thanks for the pictures and yes, I'll have to buy myself one of your books...maybe for my birthday. IRS and King County come first. Steve

Jack Ritner, was flying in the SF Bay area with the Vultures Club and gained considerable sucess flying Norm Wilson's designs. He was approached to publish them in MAN. Norm didn't care about fame and glory and let Jack take the intial credit. He was just a teenager at the time. Jack is a retired archetic (sp), that worked for the state of Calif. his whole career. Shortly after 13 was sent to the publisher he joined the Army, even doing a stint at Ft. Lewis. Both designs are OT legal under PAMPA rules. The reason they came out in 1954-1957 was MAN would build a back log of articles up so to insure they would always have something to print ahead of time. All the magazines did this. The lag time was much shorter then than it is now, about half. Manufatures were ready to capitalize on any modeler sucess they could and so were magazines. One example was George Fong's Hell Razor class D speed job, it won the 49 or 50 Plymouth's in the fall and Consolidated had it on the market for Christmas the same year. This design went on to be a best seller as speed planes go. Jim J.

If you like, love, fly, build model airplanes and collect engines and/or kits, this book is an absolutely must have!! If you can't read, then just look at all the pictures. I did. Ha.

Thanks for the plug Ty. If I could have had my way with the publisher there would have been twice as many photos. As it is there are 627 in the book. I shot around 1500, all slides. Having never shot slides before it was a real learning experince. I plan at least three more books to complete a set. There will be one on all engines and history, one on a private collection, and another to follow this book. Finding new and interesting text is the real challenge. Stories from other modelers and collectors will be the highlight of the text. Each book seems to be a journey and takes on a life of it's own as it comes together. I am currently working on my wife's book on the Seattle Worlds Fair and it's history and trinkets. All fun stuff. A guy could go blind doing research, and I get migrains from the bright photo lights from time to time....the book is my gift to the modeling community for all I have received from building, flying, and competeing. I still only have been burning a gallon or two each season and it is time to turn up the heat if I want to get any better than I am now. My scores have been around 420 consistantly and have a high of 452. I have promised myself not to quit till I reach 500. Jim J

HI Jim. That cover is a real grabber. By coincidence I obtained that issue of FM just a week before getting your book!! I am still trying to figure out where those boys are flying. Might be New Hampshire or Vermont? Sure as heck ain't Nevada, too green!