Unbelievable!

Hi fellow modelers:

I have been doing this hobby/sport since 1984 and have met and am friends with a great group of people. With a small exception C/L stunt people are very good people.There is lot of give and take among us. We share ideas , at times parts engines, etc.

I tend to collect too much stuff and do not have a lot of room. I build in a 12x10 Heartland Workshed. So I can only keep a limited amount of kits etc. So my policy is to either sell the extra really cheap or in some instances give it away. I am happy that someone
can use stuff I will never get to. I am now a Junior College Football coach so my time for modeling is even less. So recently I have given away some kits or parts of kits that were worth much more that the free price. I sold a kit that I paid 300 for for 150 with a sheeted foam wing and carved tips that I did.

I am not patting myself on the back. I just recieved an email from someone threatening to sue me because he says under California Law
I told him that I was going to give him an Old Jecto Shark 45 kit. He says that we have a legal contract and that he is going to sue me. I am not sure but it appears that he also says he will post all of our corespondence on the Stunt forum! I was going to give this kit to him and ship it free! Well I changed my mind. I told him that I was not going to give him the kit and that I was sorry to inform him of that then I get the email!
Those that know me well know I am basically really generous. Well this is really hard to stomach. I am not posting his name as he may say I am slandering him. As I said this is unbelievable!

I hope that no one else has to experience anything like this.
This is just a heads up Walter Hicks

I remember from a contract law class that if he doesn't give you anything for the kit, you aren't obligated to give him the kit. If you agreed that he would give you a dime for it, you might have to give him the kit. I'd call his bluff.

LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-04 AT 02:48 AM (CDT)
 
Seems to me that the old adage, "A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's printed on", may be apropos here. May be that if you are worried and insecure enough to ask an opinion here, amongst many folks you have never seen or talked to, you should send it to him so you don't worry about it anymore. Hell, send it to me, I'll act as your agent and deal with him. For that matter send me all your kits and then just give me a little notice when you desire to build one and I'll dole them back out to you.

Gee, now that I think of it, a friend of mine was getting a kit for free from someone. He never got the kit but he promised it to me for free too. Should I sue him or the person that never sent him the kit? HMMMM?
It's hard to believe that someone would take this to that level, but not the weirdest thing I've ever heard of... It's your kit, enjoy it.

I'd tell him to go ahead and do it. He would have to sue you in small claims court. I don't know what the filing fee is in the State you are in, but here in Texas, it is $65. He also has to pay a process server to serve you the papers legally- they don't work cheap either- certified mail won't work for this. Then he has to prove his case in the court. If I were you, I wouldn't sweat this one too much.

Jake

What an utter jackass...

LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-04 AT 07:27 AM (CDT)
 
Yes, it is. I have been guilty of giving a lot of things away that I felt would help someone, and that I had no real use for.

Of course the guy can sue you. Sounds like he is trying to use "scare tactics", which is one of the more repulsive, disgusting things a jerk can do.
If he is serious, then he has more problems than we can help with.

Doesn't mean that he would have even a remote chance to win. It would cost him more in legal fees than any kit I can imagine. And, unless he can supply definitive proof of a written agreement (probably including a monetary transaction), he would be wasting the court's, and his own, time.
Do what you want, but don't make the decision based on a guy who is out of touch with reality!
Of course, you can always draw off a squaring off circle and solve the problem that way. Or just send him this way, we can deal with that kind real easy.
Bill <><

LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-04 AT 08:31 AM (CDT)
 
Tell him Martha Stewart's attorney team have little work on their hands now, and can probably represent him for say, 600-1900 dollars per hour---each. Only folks in California, and one man in Oklahoma, that I know of, would pose such a ridiculous concept.

All kidding aside, CA and OK people are mostly fine, but it seems that there are some people who insist upon ruining the good working relationships between folks participating in a great sport!

This sue business insults this site where guys and some gals openly trust one another.

It might be worth the $100.00 bucks he could get out of you just as your entertainment. As a Contractor I once had a lady (woman) use the same tactic on me the General Contractor told me "she doesn't have a leg to stand on". He was right she was nothing more than a "Horse Thieve".
A verble contract is a contract however if I was in your posisition I wouldn't evan worry about it. Considering you told him you changed your mind about the price. Has any one else ever changed their mind about the price of something?

LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-04 AT 08:33 AM (CDT)
 
to request that he perform an anatomical impossibility, unless he is unusually gifted . . .

>”he also says he will post all of our correspondence on the Stunt forum!”

I would encourage this clown to post on SSW Forum. What a Jackass! This person is the kind of scum that we all can do without. You’re right this is absolutely unbelievable. This person should be thoroughly ashamed of himself.

BTW is this guy one of those nuts that are trying to sue Fast-food companies over his obesity?
“Here’s your sign”

You’ve got my moral support.

I know the situation and before reading your post I advised the individual the same thing as is being stated here. I would hope that he has already thought it through and that the situation has already been laid to rest.

As stated by others, without any cash value exchanging hands there is no legally binding contract of any sort. This is why so many contracts, when either the purchaser does not want to reveal what he paid of it, or when something is being deeded to another for free, will begin by saying "For $1.00 and other considerations"... There has to be a chash value exchanged for the contract to be binding.

I have bought things in my life and then returned them (WalMart, K-Mart, whatever). I have had people buy things from me and change their mind and return them. We all can change our minds about something.

Maybe (just to add a little levity to the situation) if you just offered to give him his money back...?

Gentlemen,

I am not worried about a lawsuit, my brother spent 7 years at Stanford University and has 30 years of practice as an atttorney. I
was making a point that this is the rare exception in the C/L modeling world. As C/L people are some of the best people you can ever be around. As usual life consists of the good and the bad.
Fortunately we almost never have to deal with the bad in our arena!
A lot of us have this hobby because we can have fun and in some cases
compete. Even at the top level of competition people are very helpful.(Be careful during the Nats as it gets very intense and is not necessarily a good time to be asking questions)This was just a heads up. Walter Hicks.

I'm currently on the other end of a free deal - A guy offered a free ST35 and I was first in line.

That was some months ago but he doesn't respond to my mails.

I don't mind if he's changed his mind - you can't miss what you ain't never had - as the old blues says.

However I wish he'd tell me one way or the other....

Tony

This sounds like the same person I have been dealing with. Same attitude quotes me California Law in each email. The guy REFUSED to pay for postage and CLAIMS he never received the package. The guy has a chip on his shoulder and an attitude to match. Says he is going to file Federal Mail Fraud charges against me. I waited my 30 day legal limit and mailed him another package FREE signature comfirmation this time. I hope he enjoys it. If the guy didn't have such an attitude I would have mailed him another one free anyway much sooner than 30 days. If I had it to do over I would have mailed him an empty package signature comfirmation. I would like to see him prove the package was empty in a court of law.

LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-04 AT 02:52 PM (CDT)
 
This somewhat reminds me of a deal that I was recently involved in. I had a "friend" sell some stuff for me on EBAY. No written agreement or verbal agreement. We were "friends". At least that is what I thought. Anyway he sold about $850 worth of airplane parts and a few engines. He did the packaging and mailed them too. Now he told me that the packaging material from the USPO was free since it was Priority Mail cartons. I have also heard this elsewhere to be true. Well when it is all said and done he becomes angry that I failed to recognize his time. For doing these auctions I GAVE him 3 engines, several kits,new needle valves, venturi's, took him to a MECA collecto, bought him lunch, took him to work so he could make extra money and invited him into my home. I am not saying that these auctions don't take time to do. There is no doubt that they do. He also cleaned some of the items to make them look more presentable and answered all the email questions on the auctions. I never did know where he lived as I was never invited over there. All said and done I figure I gave him close to $300 worth of stuff and entertainment but I FAILED to recognize his time? If I had failed to recognize his time why would I give him anything? I would have been more then happy to have helped package this stuff or mailed it had he asked. He never did. It cost me our "friendship" because he had to give me the money at my house. Go figure. Like I said I don't know where he lives. Complains about packaging costs? I thought they were free? Complains about costs of batteries for his camera after it is all said and done but he is listing his stuff too. He posts on this forum to so I know he will be upset when he sees this but I no longer care. Point is is to be careful and always get everything in WRITTING or sell it yourself.

Bill

On the bright side there are guys like Jerry Eichten, he sold me an OS.25VF (brand new), plus a MACS header and a carbon pipe for 175 bucks (that's the price of the engine alone), and not satisfied he stuffed the box with wheels, leadouts, adjustable leadout guides, tanks, bellcranks, and more goodies I can't even remember.

This guy would probably sue Jerry becacuse the glo-plug wasn't an original OS nº 8...

Ion (thanks a 1,000,000, Jerry!) Muniz

I am just glad it isn't an Okie

LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-04 AT 08:36 PM (CDT)
 
Boy have "I" seen this before. You bet. It takes all kinds, but some people don't think their e bay name is remembered. It is.

A response was sent by private e mail. Gotcha!!!!!

If I had it to do over I
>would have mailed him an empty package signature
>comfirmation. I would like to see him prove the package was
>empty in a court of law.
>
>Gary Weaver [email protected]

brilliant!

Just tell the guy the kit is in Brazil and that he'll get it in a couple of weeks.

I can send him a "Jaracuçú" in a hat box, and if he survives (which I very much doubt) you just tell him you got mixed with the words, you didn't mean "shark", you meant "snake"...

Them jaracuçús are worse than those cobras from India...

I guess he wont be buggin' you untill judgment day.

JUDGMENT DAY??

Well, maybe it's better to remove the Jaracuçú's poison before sending it...

Ion (Pastor Salomão is gonna fire me!!@) Muniz

Tell-IT,to go fly a kite!! -Paul-

How do you make it clear to them that 'just don't get it'?
"Common Decency" is as scarce as "common sense", (two oxymorons) which remind me of the two 'individuals' in Stunt News that had 'issues' with Doug Dahlke this month. Two oxymorons and two morons. Inverse, but parallel. I resumed Controline Building and flying because of the 'oneness'. That term is more inclusive than was intended, as it was for a 'common interest'. And, we are all interested in the same thing. Well? We were....

A contract must have something of value exchanged between the parties to be consumated.If only one side gives something of value a contract is not consumated. Usually a dollar is the minimum standard of value but it need not be cash. It could be an item or a service. In any case your offer to give is only one side of the offer.

Also contracts to be valid eithere in writing or verbal must have a term called " A meeting of the minds" ie where what you said and meant is what I understand and vice versa. If there is a cloudy understanding or confusion of the terms then a contract does not exist. That is why there is a writing established for contracts. Verbal contracts can get murky and confusing and hence unenforceable.

Ignore the person and get on with your life.

Bob Smiley

Being a native californian, I can honestly tell you that these latigeous creatins are a dime a dozen!! And I,m still try,n to hunt down the creeps supply,n all the dimes!! Paul--again

Glad you don't live in OREGON and the kit wasn't a squaw or a powwow.

I work with at-risk youth and families that are at the point of loosing custody of their children. I ask for donations of materials to help the disfunctional families work together. I have done this here onn this forum from time to time. Some have been very generous and donated engines, balsa wood. kits, etc, for my youth and families to work on, and this has made a huge difference in a few lives. I have also had persons over the years say they would donate, then never hear from them again, but I find that ok, because at least I know they were thinking about the youth and the families in crisis. What this individual has done though is intolerable. He took a beautiful gesture and turned into something ugly. That is not what we, in the hobby, are about. I too have given just about every kit I could away, as I am sure most in this hobby has, to those fresh faced kids that look with awe at our planes. Come-on guys....fess up! If only we had kept all those old kits we would have been rich, selling them to all those collectors! Don't let this one individual taint the hearts that make this hobby one of the greatest and britest. We are so charitable and giving because the ones we give to are the same as us.....just kids....with grown-up bodies. Oh yeah, my doctor told me, "If you haven't grown up by the time your fourty....you don't to!" Yippeeeeee I made it!!!!

Having been corrected on this, I'll pass it on. All contracts are verbal, some are written and some are oral. Verbal means in words; oral means spoken.

Jim;-)