Adjustable Leadout Question

I will soon be building my first plane with adjustable leadouts.
Which type is better, the ones with 1 slider where both
leadouts move together, or the ones with 2 sliders where both
can be adjusted independently? Also, with adjustable leadouts,
is it better to have no offset on the rudder? The kit
is the Twister, and the plans show offset, but that assumes
fixed leadouts.

Thanks in advance,
Ed N.

ED... Eather leadouts will work. As for rudder offset, Put a little offset in about 3-5 degrees.
However, are you going to put in engine offset? If you are, go only 1-3 degrees.
I've built three twisters. All few super. BUT the one with adjustable leadouts and little engine and rudder offset flew the best. All were Fox 35 powered.

Ed, I have never found ANY value in having independently adjustable leadouts. You want the leadouts as close together as possible without getting the clips tangled with one another. That means with "normal" leadouts, about 5/8 inch separation, no closer. Since this is a given, there is no advantage in having independently adjustables unless you are trying to see how close together you can get them. (You know, adjust them a little closer each flight until they lock up. Then back off the spacing on the next plane.)

Now, some will stagger the leadouts and line lengths so the clips never touch side by side. Then they can bring the leadout spacing even closer together. But you can do this with a single slider as well. I really don't recommend this approach. Leave it to some of the top experts. It can get a bit confusing, and if there is any advantage, you probably won't know it.

As to offset--don't. The "old" standard was to offset the engine and the rudder for more line tension. But this was before all the variables and with people not realizing the problems it was causing. Rudder offset and engine offset causes more problems than it solves. I am constantly amazed at how many people who build profiles think they have to offset the engine, and then when they build a full body plane they don't put any offset in. Did something change with the aerodynamics? The key here is you don't want the engine or rudder pointing in. So, if you shoot for 1/2 or 1 degree out "just to make sure", well, maybe you will be OK. But the airplane is already being pulled left from the direction it wants to fly. Adding either engine or rudder offset just adds to the complication of proper trim. A properly trimmed plane with a good power plant will hold out just fine. In fact, it will give more pull while flying than if you attached the lines to the tail and let the engine pull straight out.

Leonard Neumann

Staight on is always better. I just airfoil the rudder. I leave it flat on the right side of the plane and airfoild on the left. This creates a real nice line tension. With todays power plants used on the full size stunters it is amazing that some still use a Rabe Rudder. It just doesnt make sense. It seems it would make trimming it that more difficult.

Doug Moon

Leonard: Have you ever tried the over and under leadout system? I remember reading about it a few moons ago, but it was beyond my skill level at the time (probably still is!), so I ignored it. Was it one of those ideas which came and went so fast I missed its demise? Or is it still in vogue among some flyers? John

the only plane I have ever seen the over under leadout on is the original Thunderbird. I have never seen any of the top flyers recently even give it serious consideration. We need to get a proper vertical placement as well as horizontal placement with our leadouts, and the over/under system would seem to add a roll component of its own.

Leonard Neumann

That's what I wondered about, too, but I really don't understand all the interacting factors well enough to make a determination. Thanks. John

The only thing I can add is "WHAT IS YOUR SKILL LEVEL?" What do you want to learn? As you build bigger and more powerful planes the ZERO x ZERO offset is the way to go. However, as good as the Twister is and all of the NEW mods that can be added, It still comes down to what YOU want your plane to do. A LITTLE offset in the engine and rudder is OK. To much causes a lot of problems. MY experance with profiles is offset of the engine... GOOD 1-3 degrees. NOW with my PA planes I use zero x zero. WHY? Horse Power, hard corners, longer and heaver lines, and they are desinged that way. Could go on BUT we'll get a lot of responce on this. Your question is one that stunt flyers have debated for years. First and formost "ENJOY"
Scott (I got to learn to spell) Riese

>The only thing I can add is WHAT IS YOUR SKILL LEVEL?
Beginner. First flew C/L one year ago.

>What do you want to learn?
IMprecision aerobatics
Seriously, I forgot to mention this will also be
my first plane with flaps. I want to learn how to trim a
plane, and how a flapped stunter differs from flapless
ones which is all I have used so far.
Basically I can do wingovers, inside & outside loops,
and lazy eights. That's all

ED ..... The twister is so fun to fly you'll have more fun with this plane! What power plant are you going to use? If you get what you want out of this plane BUILD another. Make it lighter. HAVE FUN!!!!! ENJOY THIS HOBBIE!!!

>What power plant are you going to use?

An OS.40LA with a venturi from Leonard.

Some Twister suggestions:

Do both adjustable weight box and adjustable leadouts. For weight, you can put a blind nut in the outside tip and bolt on the number of pennies you need.

For the adjustable leadouts just cut a 1/8 wide slot in the inboard tip from about 1/2 in either way from where the plans show the lines coming out. Make a slider out of a piece of ply with a couple of grommets and blind nut and bolt it in. Be sure and cut out the ribs so the lines don't rub in any position and put the leadouts through the slider before you make the end loops (don't repeat a mistake I made!)

A Twister will fly fine in stock condition with no rudder or engine offset, however the CG should only be 1 1/2 - 1 5/8 inch behind the leading edge. Move the landing gear forward so it is the same distance from the CG as on the plan.

Also, use a piece of heavy coathanger wire to join the flaps rather than the music wire provided. This will make the flaps easier to 'tweak' if you need to do so.

Works for me.

Len, let me make a clarification on your statement: the original, upright engine T-Bird had conventional, side by side leads.

It was the second T-Bird, the II, with the inverted engine, that had the over and under leads.