OS40FP R/C for use in a Brodak Oriental

Hi all
New to this forum.
From Chester in the N.W. - UK
Racing .61cu boats (CMB power) for a few years.
Been flying C/L since a kid, now 46 and decided to go back into it full swing this year, after just flying combat / Peacemaker stunt etc just occationally for the last couple of decades.
Got too many hobbies and have to "rotate" them due to time and finances !!

Bought a good nick OS40FP R/C version (Ebay !!) and intend to put it into a Brodak Oriental as soon as they are available ( end of May apparently )

Question 1
Recomended fuel ( 25% castor / 10% nitro / 65 Methanol OK ? )
I mix my own for the boats BTW

Question 2
What dissadvantage is there in leaving the R/C carb in place ?

Cheers all

>Question 1
>Recomended fuel ( 25% castor / 10% nitro / 65 Methanol OK ?
>)
>I mix my own for the boats BTW
>
If this is a newer ABN engine, 22-25% oil is fine, as is the 10% nitro.

>Question 2
>What dissadvantage is there in leaving the R/C carb in place
>?
>Space required and weight.

>Cheers all

THese engines run well in unmodified manner, with stock muffler if you run themin the fast, low pitch prop mode.

Try an APC or zinger 11-4 and set about 10,500 on the ground.

adjustments with mufflers, and venturiis, head shims, etc. can make them run in a more traditional 4-2 stunt run. If you try for this type run with someting like an 11-5 or -6, the engine will tend to run away unless seriously de-tuned.

But it should be a reasonable combination for the Oriental ARF.

FWIW

Cheers Curt

Iv'e been bench testing it with a Master airscrew 10x6 running it rich, as from the look of it inside, it's not had much use at all, so I am treating it to a "running in" sched to be safe.

It seems a little tight in the bore when rotated by hand, but no scuffs visible.

My past experience has been with high performance Diesels ( ST, Olly T, ETA etc - still own these ) and high performance boat engines ( all ABC types )

Anyone know how I can tell which version of this motor it is ( APN etc )

"Anyone know how I can tell which version of this motor it is ( APN etc )"
Here is a picture of both types. The shape of the crankcase is the only outward difference in appearance.
DennisV

Use a magnet. Even a magnetized screwdrive tip will stick to the iron piston.

>Bought a good nick OS40FP R/C version (Ebay !!) and intend
>to put it into a Brodak Oriental as soon as they are
>available ( end of May apparently )
>
>Question 1
>Recomended fuel ( 25% castor / 10% nitro / 65 Methanol OK ?

If you use all castor fuel on an ABN engine it'll start carbonizing the piston, and you'll have to disassemble and clean it every now and then.

Use a blend of 50% synthetic/50% castor and you'll be fine.

You also don't need 25% oil, 20-22% is OK, but you are madly in love with your OS.40FP 25% will be a guarantee in case of a mean, lean run...

>I mix my own for the boats BTW

By the "cheers" I assume you from the UK. If so, just mix a blend of 50%castor and 50% UCON

>Question 2
>What dissadvantage is there in leaving the R/C carb in place
>?

A lot of folks might disagree with me, but as far as I have seen it doesn't make much of a difference. PLUIS, if you are gettin' more powerthan your shipp can handle youcan always closethe throttle a little, it's like having a collection of various venturis.

Yep from the UK

Nice to find a lively C/L forum, UK ones are not very active

Quote = "just mix a blend of 50%castor and 50% UCON "

Ucon ?? - Please explain, that quip is lost on me

APN - APC - Iron how to tell ?

Toodle pip for now chaps

>Yep from the UK
>
>Nice to find a lively C/L forum, UK ones are not very active
>

Well, John, nice to have you aboard. Except for our differences in rules and sometimes differences in what the rules should be, we are all alike and enjoy the same hobby. Of course, there are still opinions on the best way to enjoy it, so glean from the board what you will.

>Quote = "just mix a blend of 50%castor and 50% UCON "
>
>Ucon ?? - Please explain, that quip is lost on me
>

Ucon is a type of synthetic oil. We ran the FP engines in serious competgition for years, and at the time used all castor in various blends of 20% to 25% total oil. The engine will run fine in that range whether it is iron piston or ABN. Although the ABN engine is more tolerant of the castor/synthetic blends, it is still a plain bearing shaft engine, and I still recommend all castor. Yes, it can eventually carbon up the piston, but it took us a couple of years of hard running to do it, and, quite frankly, we are still seeing that happen with Matt's pipe engine running 50-50 castor/synthetic blend.

>APN - APC - Iron how to tell ?

You can use a magnet against the piston. However, on the FP series of engine, the by-pass (port opposite the exhaust) is more rectangularly shaped on the iron piston versions where it is more of a trinagle shape, smoothly contoured into the case, on the ABN. Internally the cases are identical and can be readily interchanged (the itron piston case is lighter--has less aluminum since the "bump" isn't filled out on the exterior).

>Toodle pip for now chaps
>
>JB - N.W. - UK

And a great big howdy-do to you, too.

Oh, I forgot to add a comment about the carb. With a venturi and front needle, the spray bar will be much closer to the shaft for better fuel draw and quicker reaction to attitude. But the carb will work if the tank is located properly (another problem, the tank may need to be mounted higher away from the mount.)

>Yep from the UK

"But in spite of all temptations
To belong to other nations
He remains a Britishman,
He rema-a-a-a-ains a Britishman!"

(H.M.S Pinafore)

>Quote = "just mix a blend of 50%castor and 50% UCON "
>
>Ucon ?? - Please explain, that quip is lost on me

Listen, mate, I don't know myself what is UCON, but I had a Supertiger engine, and the instruction for UK flyers mentioned that UCON. It must be some glycol based lubricant.You can ask around, and if you don't suceed you can also use Castrol M-50. Some cats here in Rio brew their own using this stufff. They say that you gotta blend the methanos, the M-50 and the castor, give it a GOOD shake, let it rest oernight and shake it again.
>
>APN - APC - Iron how to tell ?

If your engine is tightening up when the piston gets near the top it'san ABC or ABN.

BTW, all FP's are either ABC or ABN.
A - stands for aluminum pistion
B, for Brass liner
C - for the Chrome around the sleeve, and if instead of Chrome they used Nickle, it's "N"
>Toodle pip for now chaps

What the heck does that mean??????

IMPORTANT: In case you don't know, you gotta run in them FP's at much higher revs than an iron piston engine!

You don'teven have to run it in, just plug it on the plane's nose, burn a couple of tanks at a rich 2 cycle and go fly a kite - ahmm - i mean, an Oriental.

Cheers, and

God bless you!

In Christ,

Ion (them UK blokes are funny...) Muniz

Lots of good info here - thanks guys.
BTW I don't know how I got the letter P mixed up with B in ABC ABN etc - my boat motors are all ABC

>>Toodle pip for now chaps

>What the heck does that mean??????

Same as "Cheerio"

Only messin, it's tourist Limey speak for " See ya later guys "

Nearly time to finish work for the day here in the good ole UK, so I'm off to annoy the neighbours with a 10x4 and some 15% !!

Thought...
I wonder if a counter weight and linkage mechanism could be connected to the throttle lever to give a bit more power on manoeuvres - save all that 4-2-4 fiddlin

>>Ucon ?? - Please explain, that quip is lost on me
>
>Listen, mate, I don't know myself what is UCON, but I had a Supertiger engine,
>and the instruction for UK flyers mentioned that UCON.

AFAIK, it's made here in the US by Union Carbide. Ritch's Brew fuels used it in preference to Klotz for the synthetic oil part of the mix when that was my fuel of choice (not sure what oil Randy uses these days).
>>
>>APN - APC - Iron how to tell ?
>
>If your engine is tightening up when the piston gets near the top it's an ABC or ABN.
>
"APC" is the brand name for a composition plastic prop made in the US that has many desireable characteristics, among which a couple of the more important ones are wide distribution and reasonable cost.

>BTW, all FP's are either ABC or ABN.

Not in the beginning, they weren't. Between about 1984-1989, the FP's had the old traditional steel cylinder with iron piston type of internal metallurgy. When the more expensive of OS Max's engines were offering ABC as an option {there were both ringed and ABC versions of the FSR 40's, and both iron and ABC versions of the F 25's}, that type (ABC) may have bypassed the FP's.

Comparing various smaller F's & FSR's, the earlier engines' bypass shape looked "fluted" - there was a sharp relief on the side of the case. Later models had a "filleted" bypass that had a far smoother look to it. The FSR's became SF's at about that point, and ABN's replaced ABC's.

>A - stands for aluminum pistion
>B, for Brass liner
>C - for the Chrome around the sleeve, and if instead of Chrome, they used Nickle,
>it's "N"

>
>IMPORTANT: In case you don't know, you gotta run in the FP's at much higher revs than an
>iron piston engine!
>
>You don't even have to run it in, just plug it on the plane's nose, burn a couple of
>tanks at a rich 2 cycle and go fly a kite - ahmm - i mean, an Oriental.
>

.

Kiwi

>If your engine is tightening up when the piston gets near
>the top it'san ABC or ABN.
>
>BTW, all FP's are either ABC or ABN.
>A - stands for aluminum pistion
>B, for Brass liner
>C - for the Chrome around the sleeve, and if instead of
>Chrome they used Nickle, it's "N"

Ron B.
F4FGuy

"If your engine is tightening.............."
Not a good test.Some iron P/C engines have considerable "pinch".The best test is a magnet,if it sticks its iron.

"BTW<all FP's.................."
ALL the early FPs regardless of size,were iron piston/iron sleeve. The later ones were ABN,I'm not aware of any that were true AB"C".

The fuel you are using is fine. at a certian point you might want to try a 12- 12 split of castor and synthetic lubricant.

The 11-4 low pitch prop is the way to go with these engines

The r/c carb is not too much of a deal - as long as you can fix it in the open position and have it remain open thru the flight. I wired a carb open before and it flew fine. Only thing is that eventually the holding mechanism gets a little loose - like other bolted on fixtures, and you can find yourself idling around the circle for 20 minutes at about 5 feet a minute. Good practice for the carrier event. Not so good for stunt.

Ghost - I have flown my ARF Oriental first with the Brodak .40 then a Fox .35. It flys very well with both but be prepared to add tail weight with the FP .40 and proper tank. With the Fox .35, plastic spinner, wood prop, 3 1/2 ounce metal tank and tongue muffler, it was still considerably noseheavy - required around 3/4 ounce tail weight. With the Fox setup, it weighed around 37 ounces.
I have around 40 flights on mine and it is a very pleasant plane to fly - user friendly, no surprises, just goes where you point it.
Although each plane flys differently, mine worked best with the flaps/elevator set at one-to-one.
Hope this helps.
Bob Z

It's simple. Get a controline venturi and needlevalve from an OS dealer. Use muffler pressure, and a 101/2x41/2 apc prop. We use power master 22% oil (50/50 synthetic/castor) 5% nitro. Run a wet 2 stroke and you should get a break when you need it for more power. Muffler pressure seems to make the diameter of the venturi less critical. Our club has an overweight Oriental that's been passed around. A number of different FP40s have powered this plane successfully. An easy starting, consistent running engine. A tongue muffler will reduce the weight on the front end of the plane, making the cg more favorable.

Yes!

Welcome - I've been coming here for years - I've seen you at the other sites - glad you finally made it here!

Are you going to the Barton Bash? Hopefully we can get take a leaf out of Cy's book and get a SSW photo!

Cheers to DennisV for the photo's - that makes it easy - mines an ABN motor

Next problem looming.
The UK importers for Brodak have mailed me saying they will not take my order as they have had too much trouble getting the ARTF kits to the UK undamaged

I wonder how safe it is to order direct from Brodak in the USA ?
Anyone had any experience of this ?

JB - N.W. - UK

Hi Tony - went to Barton airfield on Sunday, no-one there
It was a bit windy and wet though.
Do you know when is a good time to meet the guys there ?
JB

I've imported an Arf Streak and Nobler from the US with no probs.

However you can probably get a better deal buying from a Brodak agent than directly from John!

Do the brodak Arf offerings come with wing already attached?

As I haven't got any replies to my Brodak ARF Oriental question - re wings attached or not I though I'd get the post back to the top!

Ok Tony !

I emailed them Yesterday regarding this question, no reply yet.
I am hoping they come separate, it would be a hell of a packing job to send a complete, assembled Oriental without it getting damaged.
I guess it would cost alot as well as it will be a BIG package !

JB

BTW I got my ARF Nobler from Greathobbies in Canada - kit was CA$150 and shipping CA$80 - about £100 in total!

I got away with tax and duty!

Tony - I believe you asked about the wing being attached?
Definitely not. There are two large parts - the wing and fuselage. Most of the fuselage parts, cowl, etc, are (were) attached with tape.
The remaining items, elevator, stab, rudder, flaps are well padded and tucked into various corners of the box. I recieved mine quite a while ago and the packaging was more than adequate to protect the parts.
The photo, although old, is pretty representative.

Bob Z