Any English Speed fliers here?

Just came across this on the web.

http://records.fai.org/models/current.asp?id=189

Two Speed records have recently been set by the fliers in England:

Sub-class F2A (Aeroplane, piston motor)
N°131: Speed (swept volume 1.00 to 2.50 cm³) : 335 km/h
Date of flight: 13/10/2001
Pilot: Paul F. EISNER (UK)
Course/place: Esher, Surrey (UK)
http://www.bmfa.org/news/clspeedrecord.html

and more recently:

Sub-class F2A (Aeroplane, piston motor)
N°133: Speed (swept volume 5.01 to 10.00 cm³) : 345 km/h
Date of flight: 25/08/2003
Pilot: Ken MORRISSEY (UK)
Course/place: Oakington, Longstanton, Cambridgeshire (UK)

The first would have the same displacement limit as Class A, and is the FAI Speed class used in competition, the latter has the same displacement limit as Class D. 335 km/h translates to 209.4 mph and 345 km/h to 215.6 km/h (using 1.6 km/mile).

Anyone have any details about these flights, especially the second one? Fuel, engine, line length, times, etc.? Details (and a video) of the first record are here:

http://www.flyrc.org.uk/record/control_line.htm

The engine was an Irvine .15.

There is nothing on the BMFA site about Ken Morrisey's 10cc record, perhaps because it is still provisional. Note that this record is marginally faster than the current RC speed record (ha!) of 343.92 km/h, set back in 1971 by Valery Myakinine in Russia. And a heck of a lot faster than the AMA class A and D records! Yeah, I know.. tuned pipes and such... But did D Speed planes ever go this fast, back in the days of unlimited nitro?

I keep hearing RC fliers telling me how so-and-so plane (usually turbine powered or a Diamond Dust) does 300 or 340 mph, and I remind them that the world speed record is under 215 mph.

I am not a speed flyer at the moment but I am in England and I know both Paul and Ken.
Ken works for Irvine engines, he is their northern area sales rep. Irvine are the English importer for OS engines and you will not be surprised that Ken uses OS 60's, I know he uses mini pipes and heaps of nitro, I will find out more details and post them.
Paul Eisner does not work for Irvines but is very well in with Pete Halman who is the engine brains at Irvines, Paul has gone quick in speed for as long as I have been following the scene which is probably getting on for 25 years.
I was involved in an attempt to break the World RC speed record back in the late 1980's, the big problem is that the FAI require automatic timing equipment for these kind of speeds now , this equipment is very differcult to sort out, much more than getting an RC model to go over 215mph. There are a few interesting points about the Russian record,
1) It was flown in a valley ie up and down the valley, so as the model was dived in there was no problem if they did not quite judge the pullout from the dive correctly as there was a few hundered spare feet of altitude.
2) The valley where it was flown, is known to have a wind direction change at midday everyday, apparantly you can set your watch by this change of direction, I was told this by two people who had never meet one another the first being Martin Dilley who was high up in the SMAE at the time, the second was Piero Muzio who ran the OPS engine factory in Italy. So the upshot is that you get two downwind runs in the same flight.
3) If the model did not have this assistance it is unlikly it would have been able to acheive those speeds, it had an ST 60 in it running open face ( i am going to check the rpm that it would need to have acheived assuming 100% efficiancy on the prop, I remeber from the 80's that it just did not add up) and the wing was held on with elastic bands.
4) The official who signed off the record on behalf of the Russian National Aeroclub was non other than Juri Sirotkin of CL stunt fame, Mr Sirotkin has a fearsome reputation in International aeromodelling circles and would do anything to win for the CSSR!

My understanding is that the criteria for setting World records was tightened up after the batch of records that were set at that time by the Soviets.

Regards Bazzer

Ron B.
F4Fguy

I recall two records from the "no limit on nitro" era.I know Rozelle and Frye set one,I'm not sure who set the other.One was 209MPH and the other was 214MPH.Ironically,if I remember correctly,the faster time actually predated the slower,there having been a rule change intended to "slow down" the speeds after the first.

Isky,
To set the record straight, Pauls record is not for the same class as F2A flown in any contest, eg a w/champs. In fact the only common point is the engine displacement.

The absolute record allows free fuel, free line length (I think) and most importantly, grouped lines. So the speeds achieved are not comparable.

This is not to disract from a superb technical and physical effort!

The world contest record for F2A competition rules is still held by Luis Parramon at 302.something kph.

>Isky,
>To set the record straight, Pauls record is not for the same
>class as F2A flown in any contest, eg a w/champs. In fact
>the only common point is the engine displacement.
>
>The absolute record allows free fuel, free line length (I
>think) and most importantly, grouped lines. So the speeds
>achieved are not comparable.
>
>This is not to disract from a superb technical and physical
>effort!
>
>The world contest record for F2A competition rules is still
>held by Luis Parramon at 302.something kph.

Yeah, that's what I thought, since there was a "speed in competition" record listed on the first page. I did wonder whether nitro (and the other deviations) were allowed, however. The BMFA web site does mention "no limits" placed on record attempts when it came to lines and fuel, but I wasn't sure if that applied to FAI records or to British ones.

I still find it interesting that these speeds are quite a bit in excess of what are currently US records. I wonder if grouped lines are better than monoline (which is what US fliers seem to use, mostly).

There's also a F2A Reaction Motor record, which is mind-boggling, at 395.64 km/h (about 247 mph). Also set by a Russian in 1971.

Wonder what speeds F3D pylon racers are achieving these days..

My understanding is that Paul's record was set using exactly the same rules as is used in competitions. The FAI has two classes for speed, one in competitions where the vagaries of correct settings, weather conditions, number of attempts etc make it the luck of the draw/roll of the dice if things come together on the day. The other class (non competition) gives the flexibility to choose the right conditions and unlimited attempts much the same as for any other record attempt, such as altitude or duration, where an objective result can be obtained by a single competitor.

Although Luis Parramon holds the competition record I could almost bet he's gone faster in testing. If he'd had FAI observers present during the test flights then possibly he'd now hold both records.

Brian,
According to the post that Paul put on the speed forum, he used 10% nitro fuel & grouped lines and yes, he did have the freedom to choose venue & time window. I also think that he used longer lines than the minimum, to reduce the rotation rate, which still would have been ferocious! rather him than me.
Cheers, Dave

Iskandar wrote:

>The first would have the same displacement limit as Class A,
>and is the FAI Speed class used in competition, the latter
>has the same displacement limit as Class D.

Actually, AMA Class D uses up to .65 engines, while FAI is .61/10cc.
Steve