Shocking!

Just got in a quick flight just before dark and got really nailed by static electricity. Of course, it hit in the wingover and I'm inverted and got to go back so get zapped again. Not fun! Keeping the Impcat low to the "ground", I got no more jolts. Is there any way to avoid this-say removing a shoe? We've talked about it before- I know- but this could get so bad that the thought of ditching the plane might come to mind. Skies were high overcast with a front due through here in an hour or so. No wind at all. Best regards,

Bob Hunt once explained that he thought of special "grounded" shoes to help this situation....honest.!!!!

See Ya

Keep that up and you will star on the start of 6 Foot Under the HBO series. See Ya NEAL:(

Having a wire connecting the flying wires that touches your palm should allow the static charges to bleed off continously instead of building up a charge and then jumping across the gap and giving you a jolt. At least that's the way I heard it. Probably wouldn't be any good for lightning.

Having lived it the lightning capital of the US and maybe the world Tampa Bay area I did just the opposite of what most of you did.I made sure I used a handle that didn't have lines going around the handle . I used a hard point handle and never got a shock. Static is a very big problem in Florida and my hot rock zapped me all the time until I covered the wire with tape at the back of the handle. As a kid in NYS I got hit all the time by static. with the hot rock. ZAP ZAP
Ed

The so-called "static electricity" is one thing, and we often experience static electricity getting out of our autos and touching the door handles, experiencing a small jolt. This usually happens when the air is cold and very dry. However, when outside conditions are condusive to thunderstorms, the resulting lightning bolt is powerful enough to kill your sad body. Lines, handle, make no difference, so don't think you are safe by using a plastic handle or by wearing rubber tennis shoes. Lightning will seek the path of least resistance, which could be your metallic lines, and through your body to ground. If you experience an electric tingle while flying, LAND AT ONCE, even at the cost of a busted prop.

I guess there are two schools of thought. One: Connect yourself to the lines so that you're continuously depleting the potential, and Two: Insulate yourself from the lines so as to avoid it altogether (hopefully). Or a Third: make sure you don't fly when electical potential exists. Thanks for all the inputs,

Well there are two different things going on here.

One is the static build up that gives you a tiny little tingle from time to time. The line in the palm trick will kill this. It just bleeds off the build up.

Two is an actual shock from the weather conditions. If you are getting the shocks from the air, postponing flying for that day would be the best thing to do. A line in your palm isnt going to relieve anything. Insulated handle wont either. The situation is dangerous and should be avoided.

How close is the trailer Park

>Well there are two different things going on here.
>
>One is the static build up that gives you a tiny little
>tingle from time to time. The line in the palm trick will
>kill this. It just bleeds off the build up.
>
>Two is an actual shock from the weather conditions. If you
>are getting the shocks from the air, postponing flying for
>that day would be the best thing to do. A line in your palm
>isnt going to relieve anything. Insulated handle wont
>either. The situation is dangerous and should be avoided.

Well put, and correct.

In case #2, I wouldn't do it very long if I were you. You can get your wahoo knocked in the dirt real quick and in a hurry.

How many of you saw Mr. P. Walker doing his "rain dance" in '93 at the Vincennes NATS? Scary.
Bill <><

Last Friday, there was a front coming in. I was flying with a Magnum handle and as soon as I came up a little high making sure I got out of the grass, I got a tingle from the line tension bolt. This is making a 1/8 or 3/16 jump to my hand. Flew it out level and low and went home. When it tingles, I'm through for the day.

We have flyers who have never encountered or heard of this phenomenom and those who have experienced it first hand with knowledge of the subject commenting on this thread. So the Forum works once again to spread the word. Thanks again, Leonard, for this vehicle which makes this possible. Best regards,

Hey this is the first I heard of this. Is this real common?

If so maybe a grounding strap like is use on an electronic equipment. Goes around your wrist and then clips on what ever you are working on. In this case it would be your lines.

Paul

Correct, an antiststic wrist strap would do the same thing but it would be a bit combersome.

We used to keep a small wire with alligator clips on each end. When needed, we would clip one end to one of the wires on the handle, and the other to a ring we would wear. It worked very well, this was in the Hot Rock days.

I guess Bobby did mention a wrist strap....at the time all I could imagine was the neat cartoon that Young Daniel could create........

See Ya

IMHO a mere jolt IS bleeding it off through your body. Doing ANYTHING to make electricity discharge through your body is dangerous.
Creating something like a wire setup to make it bypass your body and go directly to ground sounds much safer.
It's a wonder Ben Franklin didn't electrocute himself.

> IMHO a mere jolt IS bleeding it off through your body.
>Doing ANYTHING to make electricity discharge through your
>body is dangerous.

Not so. The jolt results when the charge accumulates until the potential is great enough for it to jump a gap. There is no need to suffer this. There is an entire industry devoted to the mitigation of damage done by ESD (Electrostatic Discharge) phenomena. And proper grounding equipment can eliminate the painful jolts. For my qualifications, I am currently the ESD control officer in our laboratories, where we handle ESD sensitive devices which are *extremely* expensive. One unwanted spark can do $100,000 damage.

Let me outline some simple principles:

1) The primary mechanism by which charge is generated by flying is triboelectricity, that is, electric charge generated by friction. The airplane and lines moving through dry air can become charged simply because they rub together. Charge rubs off of one substance (air) and sticks to another (model). This usually requires very dry conditions.

2) To prevent charge buildup, dissipative materials are used to conduct the charge safely and slowly to ground. Dissipative means *slightly* conductive. The wrist straps used in industry to ground off unwanted charge all have a resistive element in series with the body so that the path to ground has at least a million ohms resistance. It is impossible to electrocute somebody through this type of connection. It is possible for static charge to bleed slowly and harmlessly off the body, and this is what you want.

So the idea of grounding your lines to your body with an industrial wrist strap is not unreasonable--the charge can bleed off, but the path to your body is highly resistive, no increased electrocution hazard. Another piece of equipment that is readily available and possibly useful is a heel ground. Just a slightly conductive strap that goes under the heel of your shoe and contacts the body through a dissipative ribbon tucked into the shoe. Allows charge to bleed off the body to ground slowly and safely. Such equipment may reduce discharges due to charge buildup on the model, and do not pose the same safety hazard of a hard conductive path to ground.

Now to the confusing part: simple triboelectricity generated by the movement of the model through the air is *not* the only source of possible electric discharge, and the other sources can be *fatal*.

If there are significant amounts of charge residing in the air above the ground, and the flying lines contact that charge, a big zap is possible. The extreme example is lightning, and that is lethal.

The other way to generate dangerous voltages is by induction. The flying wires form a loop and changing the magnetic flux through the loop will induce an EMF around the loop. The example here is high tension wires. There are reports of fatal electrocutions from models passing near the wires, without touching them. This would have to be the result of induction, and again, is potentially lethal.

I conclude:

1) The highly resistive methods used in industry to slowly and safely bleed charge off the human body should not significantly increase the risk of electrocution. These techniques should safely prevent unpleasant static discharges due to simple triboelectricity, or "frictional charging" of the model as it moves through the air.

2) Much of the evidence present here indicates to me that there are very dangerous sources of electric discharge other than simple frictional charge generation. These include lightning and induced EMFs. Both are potentially fatal, and must be taken very seriously. I personally do not believe that using industrial grounding equipment would increase the danger from these, because lightning will strike a person who is well insulated from the earth. That is, the additional slight amounts of conductivity introduced by the equipment will not affect the status of a person as a path to ground for lightening in any significant way.

3) Since it is difficult to understand with certainty the cause of an electrical discharge, it is best to stop flying ASAP if electrical discharge becomes apparent. Better safe than sorry!

FWIW,

Andy,
Any time I used an ESD wrist strap it was to bleed MY static charge off so I wouldn't zap equipment (usually large IBM mainframes).
I even grounded myself to my computer when adding memory (which comes in ESD bags).

I still maintain that I would not bleed some unknown charge through my body intentionally.

We all make our own choices.

> I still maintain that I would not bleed some unknown charge
>through my body intentionally.

Actually, this type of static charge resides on the *outside* of the body, on the skin. When you bleed the charge off your body, it is conducted by the outside surface of your skin owing to its dampness. So you are not conducting anything *through* the body, but rather, around it.

A lightning strike, by contrast, can indeed conduct through the body with fatal results. But not always. There have been survivors of lightning strikes, who were lucky that the ground path was on the outside of their skin. Others not so lucky. Scary and unpredictible stuff.

As to whether wearing a rsistive ground strap connected to the lines could increase your chances of fatality in a lightning strike, I honestly couldn't say. Certainly you are less connected to the lines than by directly touching them, but I don't know if it would make a difference. As noted in the other postings, many flyers routinely touch their lines while flying, depending on their handle design.

FWIW,

Andy

I used to have the problem frequently in Texas--possibly a factor in itself --with a GMA magnum handle that held the handle wire in a nice slot about 1/4" away from the palm, just the right gap for zapping. When I recently acquired another magnum, I modified it by running a small screw though the handle in a location which brings the handle wire up and out of the slot for a fraction of an inch, where it contacts my palm directly. I suspect that other solutions, such as metal tape, that involve electrical contact between fingers/palm and handle wire would be less cumbersome than wrist hookups.

Hi

I never heard of this either.

Why does it only happen in the wingover?

What are the conditions that cause it?

Around here, we uses plastic handles incorporated into a little reel to wind our lines onto. It keeps the lines at least an inch away form the hand, maybe too big a gap to get zapped.

Reminds me of the time, many decades ago when a friend borrowed my Fugi 15 to put in a twin along with his Fugi. Came the day to test fly at this great flat on his dads property. He hadn't flown as much as me so guess who got first flight. Well we set up on the flat in a what seemed like a gale, got the motors going and took off. Comming into the wind, couldn't hold it down and up she goes. YIKES POWER LINES!!! Well I managed to hold it down well under the lines but read to chuck the handle in a nanosecond. That was quite a flight, fell like a brick downwind and threatening to wingover upwind into the power lines. Managed to fly it out though. That was a pretty exciting flight. Never flew there again though.

How could anyone grow up on a property and not know where the power lines are??

As they say look up and live!

>Hi
>
>I never heard of this either.
>
>Why does it only happen in the wingover?
>
>What are the conditions that cause it?

I've only been nailed by static once - and it scared the bejazzers out of me!

There was a front in the area but many, many miles off. I was flying in the evening and had a normal takeoff. As soon as I got 30º elevation I started getting zapped through the handle. I think I was using a Plyon handle with the cable at or near the rear of the handle. Since it only zapped me when I went above 30º I flew the rest of the tank out at 2' altitude.

A friend of mine said he was flying on a lot which had an underground cable and he got zapped every time he passed over it. Probably a good time to fly wingovers until the tank emptied.

That's one bad feature about C/L - once you get up you're committed until the tank runs dry. We won't mention the other alternative.

Wrong! You will still get Zapped.

I was using my "Wendy" handle which has cables-but they are insulated. I'll check to see if the insulation is compromised where the adjusting plate tightens down. The palm of my hand touches this plate and the 4-40 bolt that touches it. The charge I was feeling went from my wrist to my elbow- not the usual "tingle" but a stronger voltage. I no like. The front that I mentioned was thirty or so miles away- can a lightning bolt generate an induction current in flying lines at that distance? I wouldn't think so. Usually I have seen/felt static but it was on low ceiling/misty weather situations. I think something could be devised to connect a flying wire to the ground and not through the pilot. But if the conditions were present that warranted such action I wouldn't be flying anyway. Thanks,

Old Ben Franklin tried this: tying a spark gap from his kite wire to ground. He got a pretty good zap, and he was lucky to survive.

Flying a C/L in unsettled conditions could attract a full-size lightning bolt of thousands of Amperes down your wires, which may put you in the Underground Motel for good. Shoes, gloves, rubber, whatever, make no difference at that kind of energy.

Some years back at the Tucson VSC, people were getting shocked while flying. This was just static charge build up due to conditions that could easily have produced a serious lightning bolt to the plane inflight.

If confronted with such a situation, I would dump the plane and get close to the ground, to make a smaller target for the lightning discharge.

Dale,

What kind of lines? Stailess solids are the worst. I use the solids from Mike and Bob. I dont get any shocks from them anymore. However I think this time of year the shocks are way worse than they are in the dead of summer. I used a wire on my handle for years that grounded my hand to the up line. It worked perfectly while flying stainless. It isnt enough to really cause any problems. If there was enough in the air to cause a problem it would get you whether yu had that conductor or not. It would easily jump onto your hand across the handle if the current buildup is large enough. The Windy handle is insulated so the build-up stays in the lines until it arcs over onto your arm. I dont use insulated swetups anymore and the no more grounder copper and the Bob lines and the shocks are gone. Sometimes I get a light tingle at the end of teh flight but it isnt a big deal. A grounder wire on the bear handle line would be a good start.

I could sell a handfull of my Nikken Far-InFared magnetic insoles to those of you that are getting that static cling. Some of us have to much built into our building block of life. A little of that direct current is all you would need, let alone the health benifit it provides. They work great for me.

Get serious. My wife used to be a Nikken dealer and those stupid magnets in my shoes just make my feet sore.

What a wingover represents simply is a bigger antenna.

You can get zapped at any altitude, actually. When the air is really pregnant with electricity, such as with an oncoming thunderstorm, anything over three or four feet high can get you.

The latter happened to me once. You can learn to fly very low and very level in a hurry. The motivation to do so is right there in the palm of your hand, where the two lines connect with the EZ Just.

Actually, the little "hump" in a new EZ-Just's cable where it passes through the adjustment cramper probably bleeds off small static charges with almost no notice, depending on the manner in which you grip the handle. As a younger pilot, before my hand grew wider than a Hot Rock's grip area, I probably was more nervous and holding on more tightly.

As a more relaxed, bigger pilot, with a well-used Hot Rock, I was unable to wrap my hand that tightly on one of those handles with any degree of comfort. Then I started feeling zaps in the palm of my hand. All castor fuel is so oily (and that's the only kind I had), that I almost always had a rag in a hip pocket to wipe my hands on. Wrapping that around the handle meant the charge could build up until it jumped somewhere other than the adjuster loop, with a far more uncomfortable result.

Your wrist is MUCH less senstive to the trickles of static charges; the BACK of your hand is also not as tender as the palm is. When I attached a grounding wire to my handle, I wrapped a bared loop around the base of my thumb, and that was very workable.

.

Kiwi

Contrary to popular belief, you don't have to have clouds present to have lightning. There are records of people who have been killed by lightning strikes from a clear blue sky. The bolt just as often goes from ground to sky as well, and if you happen to be the antenna- adios...
A single lightning bolt contains enough power to supply the total electrical needs of an average American small town for an entire week.

Whoa!!! I was flying in 1965 in Newport, RI, fog rolling in and got zapped three times before I got the plane on the ground. I was using an EZ Just handle with the wire touching my palm. That's how I got zapped. After wrapping the handle and covering the wire sticking out with electrical tape, no more zaps.

You just insulated the cables and haven't built up enough charge for a real good zap yet. My stunt handle I have has bare medal going between my middle fingers, this continuosly bleeds the static electricity off. You can get a good charge just from moist conditions let alone when a storm is coming in. I have been flying when the hair on my arms would start standing up. Flew very low to the ground indeed.