Igniters in fuel

Is anyone adding igniters to their fuel?

If so, what are they (and where do you obtain them), how much do you use, and what is the effect?

What type of engine also.

Check with the Carrier guys. I think they use proplene oxide.

Propylene oxide. The Navy Carrier guys use it. If I recall correctly, Bill Calkins told me he uses 70% nitromethane + propylene oxide + oil, no methanol at all.

Be careful. Doug Taffender credits his earlier use of Propelene oxide to his later skin cancer. He quit using it in his fuels when he learned it was a carcinogen (sp?) but by then it was too late.

Leonard Neumann

Speaking of Doug--How is he doing these days?

>Speaking of Doug--How is he doing
>these days?

I don't even pretend to know him well, but I ran into him six months ago at the Perry, Georgia Swap Meet - he happened to park his van right next to my car. We had a nice chat in the parking lot. He looked well - much recovered from his skin condition of two or three years ago that took some very painful treatment. He mentioned the carcinomas that he had removed and that his docs thought that he got it early and got all of it. He was very upbeat and confident.

Those that have known Doug know that he is very fair skinned. I am afraid that he has reached the point in life that any prolonged exposure to the sun is both painful and debilitating.

Doug mentioned he recognizes this and is now very conservative regarding his exposure to the sun - something we should all be considering.

I just bought some FAI fuel, says it has igniters in it. Probably because it has no nitro?
EricV

Fuel igniters such as p.o. are totally unnecessary except in very cold wheather (say 30 degrees F.)unless you are running very high nitro. Today's engines only need 10 to 15% nitro, as a matter of fact Henry Nelson (who makes some of the finest engines in the world) will tell you his engines run just as fast on 10% nitro as some of the combat guys are trying to run 40%. P. O. is a very dangerous chemical with a very low flash point; I have used in the manufacture of epoxy hardeners. In the chemical industry we had to be very, very careful; just pouring it from one container to another or dropping a container can cause an explosion. In a model engine you would not use more than 1%, 3% you would burn plugs every flight, above 5% you would be damaging engines every flight; it's used up to 20% in drag racing, but they also rebuild their engines after every run.
My advice, after being involved with model engines, full size racing engines and mixing my own fuel for over 40 years, is to just buy a good quality fuel like Powermaster or Sigs. I think we're trying to keep people in the hobby, not destroy them.

I don't think you need igniters even in cold weather. I've flown my OS 40's and 25's in temperatures down to about 20 degrees F on Sig 5% nitro 25% all castor fuel. All it took was a really slobbery prime and a well charged glow driver. The guys out on the prairies (Winnipeg and points west) fly in much colder weather than that. The low temperature does make the castor congeal on the airplane and it doesn't come off until you get the plane home and warm it up.

Best, Hoovie

Best, Hoovie

I've used PO in combat and free flight-- up to 15%. Its effect is to broaden the needle valve range at which the engine runs at max power. I assume that it replaces the catalytic effect of methanol in fuel with more than 60% nitro where there's not enough methanol in the fuel to light.

I think that it is nuts to use PO in stunt fuel. I got some Taffinder fuel awhile back which ran screwy; I couldn't get the engine to keep running at the right speed. I complained to Doug, who said he'd refund my money. I asked him if he had put PO in the fuel. He said he did. It's a way to ruin good stunt fuel, and it won't overcome a dead battery.

I have seen significant effects from igniter in stunt fuel.

Other than PO, has anyone tried any other igniters?

I ask the original question again.

Naptha has long been used as an ignitor: commonly found in regular old Zippo type lighter fluid (there is a lubricant added to lighter fluid... not an awful deal?) .

You could pour some into the fuel, but what the guys around here have found is that lighter fluid as a "prime" works real well. If the motor ran during the less frigid weather, it will probably work okay once it gets running. The last several years the GSCB has held a New Yeas Day Follies, and it has been fairly cool )5 or 6 degrees F.) and even my nasty old Foxes fire up when lighter fuel is applied.... It's kinda a good idea to watch for fire, but that is infrequent and usually happens to the appropriate aeroplane.

See Ya

Howard Rush said:
>It's a way to ruin good stunt fuel, and it won't overcome a dead battery.

Howard, what WILL overcome a dead battery?

Denny Malott

Therein lie a couple of tales:

Oil, maybe. Last month I went out to fly my stunt plane after letting oil drain into the cylinder from the pipe. I hadn't started the engine for a few days. I flipped the prop with no battery hooked up. It started and ran for a couple of revs. I flipped again and the same thing happened. I guess the extra compression from the oil made it a temporary diesel.

People have mentioned acetone as an igniter. I was flying a Johnson in a rat race on a hot day in Louisville long ago. I had a couple percent acetone in the fuel. It started hot with no battery on a couple of occasions.

>Therein lie a couple of tales:
>
>
>Oil, maybe. Last month I
>went out to fly my
>stunt plane after letting oil
>drain into the cylinder from
>the pipe. I hadn't
>started the engine for a
>few days. I flipped
>the prop with no battery
>hooked up. It started
>and ran for a couple
>of revs. I flipped
>again and the same thing
>happened. I guess the
>extra compression from the oil
>made it a temporary diesel.
>
>
>People have mentioned acetone as an
>igniter. I was flying
>a Johnson in a rat
>race on a hot day
>in Louisville long ago.
>I had a couple percent
>acetone in the fuel.
>It started hot with no
>battery on a couple of
>occasions.

Heck, at the 93 NATS, my VF started without the battery almost every time. No acetone, lighter fluid, Hoppes Gun oil, benzine, or hydrazine, just plain old SIG. I eventually got afraid to choke it.

Ted was amazed that I managed to get my hand on the spinner in time to stop it - once it hit full speed, all a hand on the spinner would do would be cause 3rd degree burns.

My 61 has started a bunch of times with no battery. You can at least sort of understand it on real hot days over blacktop, but one time it burped when it was 45 degrees without even flipping it! It just rocked backwards against compression, I went to back-flip it, and about the time I got my hand on the prop, off it went.