SilverFoxx .40 Questions

I can't seem to get through to Lew, e-mails keep getting bounced back

Does anyone know anything about these motors? Any idea of it's weight? I'm building an Oriental and plan (or had) to use this engine, but I may consider alternatives if it is exceedingly heavier than a Fox .35.

>I can't seem to get through to Lew, e-mails keep getting
>bounced back
>
>Does anyone know anything about these motors? Any idea of
>it's weight? I'm building an Oriental and plan (or had) to
>use this engine, but I may consider alternatives if it is
>exceedingly heavier than a Fox .35.

The Fox 40 with tongue muffler and FP35/40 with Art's tube muffler (1.6 ounces) weigh about the same. The Fox is about 9 ounces bare, so, yes, it is heaver than a Fox 35. It probably has as much power, however, as a twin engine plane using two Fox 35s. The Oriental in size, at 550 square inches, should be just fine for this engine. I had one on a Metaphor (modified Magician) and an "Ugly Stunter" (570 square inches). Just watch the nose weight, is all, and if you think you will be nose heavy, just make the nose a bit shorter. You are allowed to do that (with a slight loss of fidelity points--maybe) in Classic. Use a light weight plastic spinner, the required tongue muffker (to keep weight down), and a 12 x 5 BY&O if you can find one. Then make sure the wheels clear the ground and you are in business.

Wow that's a big arse prop! I guess a little tail weight won't be a problem if I'll have the kind of power you describe.

Thanks.

I have two Silverfox 40's and they have loads of power. If you get one I'd be very surprised if you are disappointed. I really don't know what he does to them, but whatever it is it works. I recently bought a Fox 35 from Lew at the Tulsa collecto and can't wait to try it out.

I would advise caution. It is my opinion that the Oriental, a *good* Fox 35 and a 10-6 B-Y&O prop is nearly ideal for use in Classic. The only real problem is that Bull-produced B-Y&Os are getting real scarce, and they were regarded as the standard. I am trying APC 10-6 props now that I have crankshaft that (I am told) won't break, but have not yet decided which props to use this year.

Adding weight in the form of a 40, more power than is needed or even desirable, and a huge prop might well make for an unhappy combination.

It is true the wing can be shoved forward, at least that's what Pat Johnston shows on his plans and he says this is a fully documented, Classic-legal way of dealing with motors grossing more than a Fox 35.

I still wouldn't do it.

Dan

P.S. The Oriental is rather sensitive to shifts of balance point. Simply bolting on an APC 10-6 in place of a B-Y&O 10-6 didn't just soften the corners, response was ruined throughout the pattern. Took a 7-gram chunk of lead bolted to tail-wheel installation before it all came good again.

Let me clear a few things up.

#1: I have no intentions of moving wings, shortening noses or anything of that nature. As a newer builder, it will go by the book but with a decent control system. Heck, I may well use the cloth hinges.

#2: I'm a "beginner" when it comes to flying in PAMPA events and expect to be this entire season. I hope to go to Intermediate if anything survives

#3: The plane will be heavier than if it were built by an expert, but it will be in the "medium" range and not "too" heavy.

You guys are dropping awesome advice on me, but I wanted to clarify my skill level some too.

OK, with all of that said, do the above opinions stand?

Dang, I just remembered that I have a NIB Fox .35. Maybe I should send it off for a re-work.

Arrggg! You guys are killing me here

(Thanks again everyone)

LAST EDITED ON Apr-21-04 AT 09:49 PM (CDT)
 
>Let me clear a few things up.
>
>#1: I have no intentions of moving wings, shortening noses
>or anything of that nature. As a newer builder, it will go
>by the book but with a decent control system. Heck, I may
>well use the cloth hinges.
>

Tom;

First off, if you are building from something other than a kit, one answer is to lengthen the fuselage aft of the wing about 1 inch. According to Dee Rice, this was done back in "the old days" if they had to compensate for a heavier engine. You can keep everything else the same. Works just fine. And, you CAN fly it in classic later on as long as you document Dee's mods and can present it to the CD if asked you should have no problems.

Secondly, there is nothing magic about the Oriental or its setup. Lengthening the fuse an inch aft of the wing does not break some secret formula. It is easy. In fact, I have drawn the Oriental fuse in Autocad and lengthened the tail 1 inch - took about 15 minutes. Piece of cake. I also thickened the wing a little, but figured the more powerful engine would be able to take advantage of it.

Finally, if you are at the very beginner stage, you might consider building something like the Skyray or something similar without flaps until you are more comfortable with the pattern.
>
>Arrggg! You guys are killing me here
>
>(Thanks again everyone)

Ahhh. We just have lots of ideas and opinions...

>You guys are dropping awesome advice on me, but I wanted to
>clarify my skill level some too.

That's a good idea and would help narrow some of the suggestions down to things that can help you.
>
>OK, with all of that said, do the above opinions stand?
>
Mine do. The Oriental was designed for a Fox 35 twisting a wooden 10-6 prop. Once you start going off the res, things change. Go far enough off and few here can help when it comes time for trimming.

>Dang, I just remembered that I have a NIB Fox .35. Maybe I
>should send it off for a re-work.

Send it to Larry Foster.
>
>Arrggg! You guys are killing me here
>
>(Thanks again everyone)

You're going to have to decide for yourself, but the suggestion to build a Skyray is a pretty good one, depending upon your personal needs. Or maybe an ARF Flite Streak.

I hear ya, but...

I enjoy building probably even more than flying, so I don't mind more time in the shop. I'd rather build (and destroy) a "nice" airplane than build another non-flapped profile ship. Plus I have had this kit half of forever anyway. Yeah, I probably would get some mileage out of something more straightforward, but what the heck. I had it, it's getting built.

My last two "dead" planes were both a result of me being flat out stupid in competition. I'm beyond the crashing for no apparent reason stage.

With all of *that* said

I'm certainly beginning to lean towards getting the new .35 worked. I'll be using it in something down the road anyway.

Again, thanks for providing excellent input!

You can rework the Fox 35 or you can use it as is. But I certainly would not discount using the Woolard 40 on that size plane. We have used it with that size plane and smaller with no problems. I am a firm believer like Al that it is hard to overpower a plane. There is a tremendous difference between the two, and once you have tried the big block it is hard to go back to the motor scooter.

LAST EDITED ON Apr-21-04 AT 07:18 PM (CDT)
 
The flaw with a Fox .40 is, I believe, that the engine bearers end up further apart than OS or Fox .35, meaning that the plane is dedicated to that engine. Early in the learning curve, this might not be a great thing.

I stand corrected....and I have seen several of these critters work, and they work well.

Lew's e-mail is, I believe: [email protected]

See Ya

A Fox 40 will drop right in ,in place of an os40fp.
It is powerful and easy srarting( a Woolard)
Lou does a lot of work on the engine
I am pleased with mine

I had a Silver Foxx 40 BB(6 bolt backplate) and it did produce nice power and was very consistent until it shot craps just before being called to the circle at a big contest 1000 miles away. This was a Fox quality issue, not a Wollard issue and Lew fixed it promptly and at no charge.
Still????.
If you start to question your choice, the Brodak 40 goes together with an Oriental like peaches and cream.

I would second the Brodak 40 as a excellent choice but I have heard nothing but great things about the Larry Foster Fox 35 Mods also.This is one of the great things about are hobby.We have options.They do not have to be all cut with the same cookie cutter.