Tissue? (mark two)!

LAST EDITED ON Apr-23-04 AT 04:55 AM (CDT)
 
I posted this in my original Tissue? post but thought I'd repost it as a new thread!

Right - I've got some light Esaki tissue - green for the wings and yellow for the fuse and some butyrate on the way.

What is the process for covering - no solid colour just the tissues own.

Any tips?

How do I handle the (fabric) hinge areas?

Tony

>>How do I handle the (fabric) hinge areas?
>
>Tony

Tony,
Don't really understand the question, no offense.
Like I said on the other post, you cover right over them. I usually cut the tissue big enough to cover the wing panel and the flaps or elevators. Then i use a single edge (new) razor blade to slit the hinge gap. I then dope this area down in the "slot".
Am I clear on this?
In over 40 years of doing this, I have never seen anyone not cover over the whole area.
Bill <><

>>>How do I handle the (fabric) hinge areas?
>>
>>Tony
>
>Tony,
>Don't really understand the question, no offense.
>Like I said on the other post, you cover right over them. I
>usually cut the tissue big enough to cover the wing panel
>and the flaps or elevators. Then i use a single edge (new)
>razor blade to slit the hinge gap. I then dope this area
>down in the "slot".
>Am I clear on this?
>In over 40 years of doing this, I have never seen anyone not
>cover over the whole area.
>Bill <><
>
>Just an Old Advanced flyer.

Same thing I do. Just cover the whole puppy. I sometimes use a sheet of 320 or 400 grit sandpaper folded in half instead of the razor blade to cut the tissue- same thing for trimming the edges.

J

Just sent E-mail to you. Thought I was replying on the forum. Possibly I'll learn.

Strow

strow

No offense taken Bill!

It's more the 'general approach' I'm after with this post.

How many coats of dope on the bare structure - thinned or not - do I use dope or just thinners to apply the tissue - how much overlap between sheeets and so on?

I take it with the hinges I just work round them as best I can!

Tony

>No offense taken Bill!
>
>It's more the 'general approach' I'm after with this post.
>
>How many coats of dope on the bare structure - thinned or
>not - do I use dope or just thinners to apply the tissue -
>how much overlap between sheeets and so on?
>
>I take it with the hinges I just work round them as best I
>can!
>
>Tony

Dope the entire structure until you get at least a dull sheen- depends on what dope you are using and how thin (thin goes on easier and looks better in the end- takes more coats) 4 to 5 is generally about what I do. I mostly use thinner to stick down the tissue. Overlap is not critical, less is better- butt joints work too. Ignore the hinges, just work over them, not around.

J

LAST EDITED ON Apr-23-04 AT 07:24 AM (CDT)
 
Hey Tony,

Oh, ok!
3-4 coats of whichever type of dope you would use to attach silkspan.
Just treat it pretty much the exact same way. The tissue is thinner, and a little more fragile to me, but seams are no problem. You can attach the tissue with straight thinner, or about 10%-20% dope in the thinner. Rub the tissue down with your fingers as you brush on the thinner, gently.
Overlaps sand out during the finishing process very easily. Too easily sometimes! It will be easy to sand through, so go light at first.

As to the hinges, just cover the plane like they are not there.

I like to use nitrate up through the covering. It seems to build up quicker, the weight is good, and I think it has better adhesion properties. On solid sheet planes like yours, I will use nitrate through the filler (I mix zinc sterate in the nitrate for filler).

How's the Veco 35s doing? Mine is running great! Got one on a test plane right now.

Bill <><

First do get your structure doped to the point of being pretty well sealed. Covering a surface like the wing, get the tissue stuck down around the edges, with thinner, thinner/dope, dope, whatever works best for you. Then water shrink it, then saturate with thinner to stick it. This will give you a much smoother surface than sticking it down from the gitgo with dope or thinner. If you can use a nontaughtening dope to stick it down so much the better. You can also use this technique with small pieces. Overlaps, or gaps with tissue are a pain and not easily delt with. If you stick the tissue down and let the margins dry before shrinking/attaching the center, you can make neat butt joints.

I don't know how thick your stab is. If it is pretty thin, best to just stick the tissue down all over, as I know from experience that using the technique I described above can give you a 1/8 thick pretzel.

Yep. Sealing the entire structure (and that means ALL of it) prior to using wet tissue or silk is critical. If you do it correctly, you don't need to worry over warps. If you don't- you'll HATE yourself not long after trying this. Plus sealing the wood adds YEARS of life to the model as the wood is more resistant to moisture from the air not to mention oil from the motor! Hang it up nose down in storage too- the oil and such tends to drain away from the structure. I learned this stuff LONG ago from some smart guys- it works too.
Tissue or silk is actually really easy, but the base prep is the key- do it right and you will be a happy camper indeed.

Jake

So Jim you water shrink even on an all sheet model?

Tony

Yes, except where the structure is thin and prone to shrinkage warping, or where it is too much trouble. If I am putting on a 1 in. square piece of tissue, I just dope it down.

WOW! Your C/L model is bigger than your house! And your guitar is no wimp either.

I have a tissue problem myself, and this will probably get lost at the bottom of this topic.

I prefer silkspan and dope. The only colored silkspan I can find is some real lightweight stuff from SIG. All silkspan of any substance is white.

So I have had very poor results trying to dye white silkspan. I prefer to buy colored heavy-weight silkspan.

Does anyone know of a source?

The geetar is a 1930's Cromwell archtop (made by Gibson) with a 1940's Selmer pickup.

The pickup plate is made of celluloid and was melted to mold to the shape of the archtop.

I knocked the neck off the body recently but it went back together fine.

Tony

Tony. It's pretty hard to knock the neck off a guitar. The guitar I built used a threaded rod in tension let into the back of the neck, and anchored to the neck block in the body. That counteracts the string tension, which otherwise would pull the neck into a curve over time. Maybe your guitar didn't have the neck rod.

You might try Aerodyne, I know some of the FF guys like colored span and I seem to recall they had some as well as Jap tissue in several colors. Colored nitrate dope too.

J

What's the plane?

It's Hallam Hotplate - UK cottage industry kit- excellent value - produced by a disabled modeller.

It's a 32" span flapped all sheet design.

The kit is @£23 here in the UK.

Hallam does others - including a Peacemaker clone.

Tony