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Engines & props

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L3 · Apr 24, 2004 06:52 PM

Engines & props#0 source
This isn't exactly the place to ask these questions, but I lost track of the other forums so:
1. Who knows anything about Bartels props?
2. What can anyone tell me about an OS Max 45F. It has 2 ball bearings and a Dykes ring. I have never seen one before.

Thanks in advance.
Larry Lundy

F4FGuy · Apr 24, 2004 07:54 PM

RE: Engines & props#1 source
>This isn't exactly the place to ask these questions, but I
>lost track of the other forums so:
>1. Who knows anything about Bartels props?
>2. What can anyone tell me about an OS Max 45F. It has 2
>ball bearings and a Dykes ring. I have never seen one
>before.
>
>Thanks in advance.
> Larry Lundy

Ron B.
F4Fguy

Larry:

I don't know anything about Bartels,but I have an O.S.45F.I got it in a bunch of stuff I bought as a lot.It now resides in an RC airplane and runs like a train.Swings a 12-5 with authority and gives no problems.It appears to be an earlier version of the .46.Mine has very conservative timing(about 7 degrees blowdown)and,though I've never tried it,I suspect it would 2-4 well.Interestingly mine has a conventional rectangular section ring,not a Dykes.Like all O.S.s its very well designed and manufactured.Good fits,beefy crank,big rod bushed on both ends and large bearings,all testify to this.

Ron B.

Lou_Crane · Apr 24, 2004 09:13 PM

RE: Engines & props#2 source
Ron'
>...the .46.Mine has very conservative timing(about 7
>degrees blowdown)...>

Just curious on a small thing... Years back, George Adlrich took me to task for referring to 'blowdown' as the degrees LAG between exhaust port opening and bypass (first bypass, if schneurle ported) opening. He advised that blowdown counts this lag twice, once during opening and again during port closing.

Seven degrees lag is pretty 'conservative' timing, but according to GMA, the blowdown would then be 14º...

I retime my own Fox 35s to 5º lag, at 115º ATDC exhaust opens; 120º ATDC bypass opens. They are rev-limited -- couldn't hit 14K on a flywheel -- but have very nice torque in the useful range and a pleasant 2/4 break both ways.

\BEST\LOU

Steve Helmick · Apr 24, 2004 11:13 PM

RE: Engines & props#3 source
1. Who knows anything about Bartels props?

They were made in Germany during the '60's & '70's, but I think he quit making props long ago, maybe before CF came into it. Why? Steve

F4FGuy · Apr 25, 2004 06:34 AM

RE: Engines & props#5 source
Ron B.
F4Fguy

Lou:

Some say tomatoe,some say tomahto.In this as in other things the model community has it's own language.Like tail moment being from flap line to elevator line,or pipe length from center of the cylinder to the first baffle.In all the literature I have on two stroke cycle engines,the blowdown is the period in the exhaust/power stroke between when the exhaust first opens,and the intake first opens.

On the intake/compression stroke intake closing leads the exhaust closing,since by definition,both the intake and exhaust period are symmetrical.The reason torque is improved at lower RPM is that there's less mixture lost at low speeds,due to the exhaust timing.For a given timing,low revs give ample time to evacuate the cylinder.At higher revs the cylinder can't get the exhaust gasses fully scavenged,cylinder pressures equilibrate before the intake is fully closed and a lot of dilution occurs between exhaust and intake.This is the rev limiter.

I know I'm being pedantic here.It really doesn't matter what you call it,as long as you know the effects.In an ideal world,the exhaust would lead the intake in both directions.Since we're dealing with cylinder ports and are stuck with symmetry,there's no way to accomplish this (in a single cylinder engine).

What you're doing to the Fox .35 works well because the exhaust timing is very conservative.In a more "highly timed" engine you almost always have to drop the sleeve or otherwise retard the exhaust in addition to raising the intake.Sub piston induction is the usual limiting factor.

The thing we're really doing is changing the time/area.For low end torque and broad range the exh.time/area sould be minumum,and int.time/area should be as great as possible while maintaining enough blowdown to gain some inertia in the exh. gasses. Reverse flow into the intakes is the limiter here.

Ron B.

Bazzer · Apr 25, 2004 04:00 AM

RE: Engines & props#4 source
Bartels props were one of the original glass/epoxy props made in any quantity, from what I remember he seemed to make more of the free flight and team race props, I have not heard of him in a long while, composite epoxy props seem to the Australians trick these days with both Bolly and Supercool based there.

Bazzer

L3 · Apr 25, 2004 06:50 PM

RE: Engines & props#6 source
Thanks for the engine info, Ron. The thing is new and I had never seen one. Sounds like I might be keeping it to put in a venturi and try it out.
Steve, a friend is in possession of 8 of them and was wondering about them.
Thanks, Bazzer. I remembered Henry Bartels' name and thought the props might relate to team racing. They are about 7" long, have a sort of paddle blade, and are estimated to be about a 6" pitch. My buddy will check 'em as soon as he finds his pitch gage.