OK, now I need to build my own field

I suppose it had to happen in this era of litigation, whining, what about me and complaining, but I have to admit that I was a bit surprised. Shouldn't have been, I guess.

I was at the local school flying. There's a back field that is seldom used by the school and because it's really designated as a Track and Field "field events area" (hammer, javelin, shot and discus) some of it's a bit bumpy so the baseball guys don't like to use it. There is a smooth area and I have flown there for several years. You have to take an access road and because it's right next to the highway and a power transfer station, it's a bit loud so no one has ever complained about the noise.

I was flying there the other day with my new 4 stroke plane. About half way through the session and cop comes up the access road and stops by my car. He got out and watched me finish my flight. I land and he comes over and says that I can't fly there. I asked him why and he said that I didn't have a permit to use the field or to operate a model plane.

Hmm, well, says I, the last time I checked, the school was public property. I am well below the noise ordinance (I checked) and as far as I knew, there was no such law about getting any sort of permit to operate a model plane. (How the heck would he know if I had one. He never asked). I tried to explain that as an AMA member, I had insurance, but he didn't seem very interested. He told me there was an RC club that had their own field with a permit and I'd have to go there. Of course, that's impossible since 1) they have a 50 foot wide take off area in a very hilly area and besides, they use it. He further said that in order for anyone to use any school property, they had to have written permission from the school or district office. Hmmm again. So, I asked, does that mean I no longer have to pay the outrageous property taxes I'm charged? It seems a fair question. Our county has the highest property tax rate (and school levy taxes) in the state. He said that I had to get out or he would arrest me. Since when does a local, city cop have jurisdiction over a publically owned, financed and state administered piece of property?

I was about a half second from telling him to go ahead and arrest me, but decided that that probably wasn't the way to get what I wanted, so I packed up and left. Now, apart from this particular cop being about the rudest and most arrogant jerk I've come in contact with for awhile, I wondered how he could possibly expect me NOT to complain to the local police, the county, the city and anyone else I could find.

Anyway, today I talked to someone at the cop shop and they told me that while the idiot had, in fact, stepped over the line a bit (microscopically, according to them), it was in fact true that you could not operate a model plane inside the city limits. The reason I had not been warned before was that the school and surrounds had only recently been annexed.

This was just too much. I'll do some more checking and see if I can get to the bottom of this nonsense. But for now, I guess I'll just have to drive out of the area to fly.

Sheesh!

Hello Randy:
You can come down to Roseburg and fly with me. The city has built 5 baseball circles in a park-out of town-no noise problem. Each ball field is big enough to fly TWO, 60' circles. They came in and dumped 6" of sand and rolled it flat as your carpeted floor. They planted it and the grass is cut 3 times a week to 3x4" -- always. Problem is, I don't have anyone to fly with--want to come to Roseburg ???!!! I can fly the clown racers on these fields.
Oh, don't feel bad, I got a $234.00 ticket for a piece of cardboard flying out of my trailer. I was in the center lane trying to stop and it flew out--weigh master was right behind me--I was dead meat!!!
PS--City Park Dept said we could hold contests there for $50.00 a
day--haven't had any takers yet!!
OH Well
Dave Shrum:+

Randy,
I totally sympathize with you we just got run out of our newest field. Sand Point Navel Air Station.
I don't mind telling you I have little patience with all these rules & the people that create the rules.

Hi John,

I suppose it wasn't the "you need a permit" issue. I can address that with the city council if I need to. Or even the cop trying to control something that is clearly out of his jurisdiction. It was just the guys attitude. I've been a therapist for soemthing like 28 years and have yet to really figure out people that seem to have such a stake in telling others what to do, even when what others are doing has no effect on them. It was just a power and control issue. He was probably traumatized by a his older brother using a toy glider when he was a kid.

At least my house is well out of the city limits and not likely to be annexed in even the distant future. So when I eventually get my field built, they can kiss my hindquarters.

Randy,
I think I know why people have a habit of minding other peoples bussiness. But that is beside the point I can't fix the problem. I hope you get a good practice site soon. A few short years ago I would drive to Salem to prepare for the NATS. 200 miles one way . I was able to make the best of it calling it a mini vacation. Again a big thanks to the city of Arlington Washington for allowing us to fly on there property.
My new plane is starting to come in now.

John, is that true, you have lost the Sand Point site already? I thought that was a done deal. That's terrible!
A friend of mine has an apt saying: "There are some people in this world, when they see somebody having a good time, they try to put a stop to it."

--jt

John ,
There are a lot of people that are as your friend describes. WE were at Sand Point on a Saturday to get together & so forth. A woman tried to drive through the circle I was in & she was obnoxious!She was quite the Bad Actor as I told Ron Cannan "my only regret is that I did not have a fresh cow pie to smear on her winshield. Shortly after some one approached the Proper Athoureties (sp) & the planes were quickly grounded. True story.

I hope she gets a DWI after her next Bridge game.

John T,

>>"There are some people in this world, when they see somebody having a good time, they try to put a stop to it."<<

Well, it's the underlying motivation that has always escaped me. I mean, I understand it on an intellectual/underlying psychology sort of way. But it's just one of those things that it's tough to see where the primary benefit outweighs secondary gain.

Oh well, it's the way it is. Pat Johnston had the right idea; build a field on your own property and thumb your nose.

Jerry,

>>Another thought - are you sure the field is really school district property?<<

Yep, it's school property. I checked that out years ago. For a long time, I knew the maintenance guy at the school and got on well with him. He would come out sometimes to watch and even gave me a key to the back gate. Never had a problem. But he retired a year or so ago and the new guy is a bit of a butthead. I've never had a run-in with him, but I know others that have. And, looking at it in retrospect, I suspect that he is the actual author of this. The cop is probably his brother-in-law or some such. That sort of thing is pretty common around here. Gotta love small towns.

I have a buddy on the city council and he is looking into the law and permit issue for me. I'm also planning to see a woman I know at the District Superintendent's office. I used to coach her son in little league. She runs a district program that my son used to volunteer for. She pretty cool and can probably tell me about the actual rules and regulations and possibly even get me permission from the Superintendent. I mean, a local church rents an elementary school on Sunday for services (an interesting issue in itself), but I can't fly planes at the local middle school? Hmmm...

Peabody,

Well, that’s why I didn't blow up at the cop, moron though he was. And why I'm making approaches to folks I know in the local city government and the school district. This field is little used except of a very occasional track meet or little league practice. It's just not convenient or designed well for those things. So, I'll smooze the folks at the city council and the SD and see what we get. In the mean time, I'll start cutting trees (mostly trash alders down there) at the other end of my property and look for a good earth mover guy that can level the site. It will take a bit..

GZ,

He just didn't seem too bright. At one point I asked pretty mildly, "why are you yelling at me? I just asked a question." Geez, I thought the guy was going to take a shot at me. I never raised my voice or made any sort of suggestion that he was wrong. Just asked why the guy was so intent of keeping me from doing what I wanted to do. Interesting how defensive people get when you point out inconsistencies in their premises or generalizations in their thought processes. Really tends to irritate them.

<>

Hmmm... an R/C club within city limits that had to get a permit? Well you could stop by and ask where their permit came from.

Another thought - are you sure the field is really school district property? Around here many of the schools have adjacent fields used for occasional school sporting events, but the ground actually is under the domain of the park and rec department, not the school district. Might be helpful to know just who can give permission.

A friendly stop and smile at the city attorney's office might get you some information on whether there's really a ordinance addressing flying things on city property. What about a kite or a hand tossed balsa glider?

Did your son go to this school? If so it might help if you talk to the school's site-council or the school board.

Good luck!

This highlights a situation that may frequently be addressed, although now that the damage has been done it may be difficult to fly at that site again.
Rich Giacobone and I have recently been awarded a permanent paved flying site within Bergen County, NJ. The site is in the boundary of a County Park.
This wasn't accomplished by charging into the Parks Department and demanding a site, rather a long series of political moves, lunches, and a formal presentation were necessary.
We stressed that we did NOT fly radio, and that, in fact, we flew on stainless steel cables....in a letter explaining our desires we includes one of the "Everything that you wanted to know about Stunt but were afraid to ask" flyers that Steve Buso created as well as photos of successful municipal/government owned c/l flying sites, as well as a summary of the AMA's insurance policies.
The key to any retention or awarding of flying space is to stresss the safety aspects of our sport and to show patience. Form a Club to achieve extra AMA insurance.
Another key is to write thank-you notes after every meeting, even if you are frustrated.....
I would suggest that those fortunate enough to fly at sites provided by any governmental agency would be very well served to write thank-yous to those that control them. Preserving sites is critical, too.

Obtaining a public site is not easy, but it is rewarding.

See Ya

I was able to use the internet to get a copy of City ordinances (Long Beach , CA) last year. We were sucessful in convincing a park official to let us fly. It seems the park official was under the impression that there was an ordinance against flying model airplanes. Turns out there isn't. So he "advised" against flying and left. But we weren't confrontational. We even had started to pack up before we asked if he had a copy of the ordinance to read.
However, to avoid any confrontation, we always defer to any other activity, people walking dogs, jogging, baseball, gang activity such as drive by shootings, soccer, golf, even nanny's with small children out on the field.

It was just a power and control issue. He
>was probably traumatized by a his older brother using a toy
>glider when he was a kid.

Maybe he had a girlfriend tell him he had a little d**k...

Little man syndrome...

Randy,

I have had some similar experiences with city police officers (some model aircraft related and some not) and understand exactly what you faced in that situation. It is absolutely scarey when you see the caliber some of the people who are given a badge and a gun and told to enforce local laws. Some of these clowns make their own rules and regulations and woe to you if you don't dance to their tune and be quick about it. I really think it goes back to the fact that there are certain personality types who relish carrying a badge and get off on ordering you around....small types who feel they have a superior position over you, the citizen, and they are in control of "their town", so dance Pilgrim!.............T.Durrill

>Hi John,
>
>I suppose it wasn't the "you need a permit" issue. I can
>address that with the city council if I need to. Or even the
>cop trying to control something that is clearly out of his
>jurisdiction. It was just the guys attitude. I've been a
>therapist for soemthing like 28 years and have yet to really
>figure out people that seem to have such a stake in telling
>others what to do, even when what others are doing has no
>effect on them. It was just a power and control issue. He
>was probably traumatized by a his older brother using a toy
>glider when he was a kid.
>
>At least my house is well out of the city limits and not
>likely to be annexed in even the distant future. So when I
>eventually get my field built, they can kiss my
>hindquarters.
>
>

Randy,
I wish you the best on your own field. I have been flying in mine for the 7th year now. Not a spot of trouble until last year. Local sheriff stopped by 3 times (for noise complaints) of which I had to stop flying twice. Called the local government and they said that there were no firm noise restrictions on the books except for lawn mowing between 8 and 8. Guess we will see what happens this year. I have also started flying at a secondary site to get the frequency down a bit. It is a little more central for the guys I fly with and no muffler rule (yet).

Like John Paris, I have my own flying field. It's about 100' behind my house. I live in a farming community but I do have other homes near by. 7 years so far, no complaints yet. I can use a little leveling work also. I have about 5' slope over 200'. Some day.
Good luck on your field Randy.

ITs all those vendors and food concession trucks that come in there while you're flying John!

Actually, I recently heard that there is a no model aircraft ordinance in the city here as well. I was surprised since I have occasionally flown on school grounds.

This a sad comentary of the way things have been going for years. Parents want to get their kids into something wholesome and we are swarthed at every turn. Bill Darkow tried hard to get a place to fly here in Olympia at the airport. The Port of Oly is so political and strapped for money they wouldn't step up to the plate. There is a large area that is perfect for CL, but no! The airport is designated to sponsor only aviation related activities, what do they do, put in 4 ball fields, can we use them? NO! I told Bill our new club would be called the Olympia Outlaws and he got upset. I stayed out of it and I believe things have died down a little in the past 4 years. If a city only knew about the Cholla Choppers field and the money they bring into Tucson each year I'd bet they'd all get on board. I switch between 4 sites as not to wear out my welcome....T-Ball is my bane right now. Soccer and baseball are everywhere, except the airport. I too get along with a janitor at a local elementry school and know many cops here so can usally have no problems. Thing is kids and parents love to watch. I remember in 1969-70 in San Diego signs started popping up on school yards saying NO MODEL AIRPLANES, this was in the beginning of the mini-bike craze. Pretty soon models were precieved as "motor vehicles". I went to jail in 1989 for arguing with cop, the charge was "failure to obey", this guy pulled a gun on me told me to lie spead eagle in the mud, I told him I wouldn't lay in the mud for him or anyone else... this cost me $240 and a years probation. Lesson, say Yes Sir and No Sir, leave quickly and fight another day with a clean record. Seems everything you say can come back and bite you. I was also pulled over (On a motorcycle, 72 Triumph)by a CHP on I-5 in 1975, he leaned over and softly said, "I have been a CHP for 10 years, the judge will believe anything I tell him." A good cop would recognize the value of one of the most engaging and wholesome hobbies/sports ever devised and do all he could to help. Taking kids with you might help but finding them is another problem. Outlaw in Olympia, Jim J.

Your patience with that cop is to be commended. I would have reacted differently. However that is probably because we live in different countries. Our RCMP are not usually so blatantly idiotic. I think there were some politics happening there.
Today we flew at 1PM at a city park( designed for softball, soccer, etc) where there was no organized activity happening. However after the first plane got in the air, a swarm of kids from a nearby school came running onto the field. It seems they use it as a Phys. Ed. training ground as their own school yard isn't as big.
Guess what happened....The kids ran outside of where we flew and didn't come too close. Both activities went on to the benefit of everyone.
The kids said" COOL PLANES" as they ran past the launch area.No complaints and no hard feelings.
May it continue.

Hi Randy:

Maybe you need a different, dare I say "politically correct", strategy. The city bureaucrats would find it hard to turn down a "Youth Aviation Club." You said that you fly at a local middle school. Organize an after school or weekend class on aerodynamics for the kids. Build a bunch of platters and get these kids flying. Maybe you could even get Brodak and/or Cox to help sponsor you with 1/2A kits and motors, respectively.

Too much hassle?

Regards,

Larry

Lawrence Williams
Yorba Linda, CA

LAST EDITED ON Apr-30-04 AT 01:07 PM (CDT)
 
Larry,

We'll see. I got OK to fly at the school. At least for now. It will take an organized effort to change rules to actually prevent me...particularly since I now have a letter from the School District giving me specific permission

And my friend on the city council says there "ain't no such law" and I have a brief, but direct letter from them giving me permission. So, I'll fly there this weekend with both letters in hand and see if the maroon shows up again. If there is a concerted effort to stop me, it will take awhile. In the mean time, I'll start working on my own field.

edit: typos

Randy,

You don't give a rat about typographical errors.

But you are scared to death Rush is gonna catch you in another ill-advised choice of words. And that is as it should be.

Glad to hear of your resolution to the situation. We already hear way too much "I haven't practiced," whining from you.

Is Smiley back yet?

LAST EDITED ON Apr-30-04 AT 05:32 PM (CDT)
 
Dan,

yea, yea, yea. I've already invited PW to fly at my new field (when it's built, anyway), you sir, however can dine on ashes.

Smiley crashed everything and is contemplating his navel. Though he is back...sorta.

Dan, man you must just love Fred Reed.

edit: delete several reference to DD's cognitive skills.

Randy Randy Randy, You're a Therapest? And you get semi confrontational with a man who has a:
1. Badge
2. Attitude
3. Handcuffs
4. Pepperspray
5. k-12 club
6. Gun?

Diffuse, obey, find out from the man exactly what you need to fly on his beat and then go get it if you can. The next time you meet up with all the goods, all he can do is talk with you while you re-fuel. But never get confrontational, that leads to just bad feelings and/or more dire situations.

Don't talk your way out of too many tickets either do you?

I hope your circle search goes well. I'm dang lucky haveing a friendly park so close.

Mr. Clean,

Well, that was the point. I wasn't confrontational. I just questioned some of the guys logic. It was pretty clear he was talking out his rear. It's why I just packed up and left. Tough to do with a supposed peace officer screaming in your ear. It's also why, when I go back to the field tomorrow, I will have my permission slips from the school district and city council in hand. As I said, I don't know how long they will last, but hopefully a bit anyway. And if my favorite officer of the law returns, I'll still try to be nice. Some anyway.

Just a quick followup. Flew at the school today and my buddy showed up just as I was packing up. We had a short, pointed discussion that included presentation of the the letters from the school district and the city council (I made teh guy copies just in case). Once he got over his bluster, he was mostly OK with it. He cautioned me to be alert for kids and to "follow whatever safety percautions this AMA or whatever specifies", then took off. I have to admit, for all his screaming and bluster, he recoved well and even asked me a couple of questions about CL flying. Heck, I might even get a convert out of it.

So, mostly happy ending. We'll see how long I keep the site.

Yes, it does well to convert one of the local cops. We have one of Millington's finest in our club (The Millington Barnstormers). He keeps us out of all kinds of trouble.