So, if you're going to dye you silkspan...

I enjoyed the thread on dying silkspan but, like several, I've had great trouble with colors fading in sunlight. My Ares from the first VSC was covered with some very old lime green paper I got from the LHS a hundred or so years ago. The green has faded a bit but what really got to me was the orange and blue Sig Plyspan (sort of a heavy gauge Jap tissue)which was used for the trim colors have all but disappeared. It looks like a green bean with some discolored bruises!

I've seen mention several times of UV blockers. What exactly are they? Where do you get them and how well do they work?

Jeez Ted, I would be happy to take that old faded plane off your hands I'll give it a good home. Promise!

I know that many modern automtive paints claim to have UV protection, but short of that, I have no clue as to what would be a proper application in our hobby.

I'll be interested in the replies as well. I hope my covering job will at least give a nostalgic look and it seems that it will.

I hope too that someone responds. I used blue Sig plyspan just a couple days before I saw a post mentioning fading. So much for weight saving!

SK

Ted,
Maybe the analine dye that Dennis wrote about in the other thread along with the butyrate clear top coat might not have the problem. I remember Bob HUnt used the Starflite Analine dye on his Frisky Pete. He should be able to give an assesment of it's fading qualities.
Bill <><

The UV blocker I use came from GMA before he left us. He got it from Gary Tultz I believe. It is used in roofing coatings to prolong life. Gary may still be able to get it, I haven't asked since I have a lifetime supply.

>The UV blocker I use came from GMA before he left us. He got
>it from Gary Tultz I believe. It is used in roofing coatings
>to prolong life. Gary may still be able to get it, I haven't
>asked since I have a lifetime supply.
>

This is clearly a case where the product should be identified and a source of supply found. Many people avoid colored/dyed paper finishes simply because of the fading. But they are one of the fastest and easiest ways to put a really attractive and *light* finish on a model. Being a free flighter, it's my favorite method. You can do beautiful trim schemes with only modest effort.

Now we know why your yellow Chief hasn't faded...

Let's find out what this stuff is and where to get it!

>I enjoyed the thread on dying silkspan but, like several,
>I've had great trouble with colors fading in sunlight. My
>Ares from the first VSC was covered with some very old lime
>green paper I got from the LHS a hundred or so years ago.
>The green has faded a bit but what really got to me was the
>orange and blue Sig Plyspan (sort of a heavy gauge Jap
>tissue)which was used for the trim colors have all but
>disappeared. It looks like a green bean with some
>discolored bruises!
>
>I've seen mention several times of UV blockers. What
>exactly are they? Where do you get them and how well do they
>work?
>
>Ted

Ron B.
F4Fguy

Ted:

The UV blockers are crosslinkers in the clearcoat.I talked to the Stits techies about theirs and they said it was useful but not entirely effective.They recommended loading the clear base with aluminum!Not too helpful for our purpose!Of course,they are primarily interested in preserving the fabric itself,not the color.

I peeled off the decal on my baby N to see how much the dye had faded after only 4 hours sitting in the sun. Here's what it looks like.

In my opinion going to the trouble of dyeing silkspan isn't worth the bother unless a UV blocker is really effective. I have Bob Hunt's wonderful tape on doing transparent finishes and I really wanted to do a transparent finish on built up stunter. So, I'm definitely interested in any feedback about how effective UV blockers are.

LAST EDITED ON May-03-04 AT 02:21 PM (CDT)
 
Ted There is a very easy way to do transparent finishes. I have been doing them for years and many people thought they were clear silk.I got this method from a friend many years ago.He used drawing ink mixed in thinner.It comes in many colors.I could not find the ink so I used colored dope in thinner.Mix one half ounce of color dope to 8-10 onces of thinner,spray on many coats and rub off over spray with a rag. The plane will gain no weight and will look very dull.Spray on a light coat of clear to lock the color down as it will come off very easy. Add on your trim and lettering and spray as much clear as you want on top. It will look like colored silk or tissue.On some planes I have built it up with many coats of the base so it looks like a paint job and gained less than a ounce on a 630 sq inch plane. I also did the Juno with this method.I shot it with orange thinner combo then the red thinner combo. THe body has silver under the red.
Ed This is my third edit These finishes do not fade and there is no overlap at the tissue seams as in in dyed tissue.

LAST EDITED ON May-03-04 AT 02:20 PM (CDT)
 
Very pretty.
GMA used an acrylic dye that is meant for use in casting resins to color clear dope- it works real well and is fade proof.
Analine dyes are VERY poisonous and need to be handled with care.
Just in case you guys think this is baloney, two of the most lethal and fiendish "war gasses" used in WW-I: phosgene and dichlorethelene sulphide (AKA Mustard Gas) both came from the clothing dye industry.

Jake

Another Caution:

The RIT dyes I have seen also contain a salt derivative, which can be highly corrosive. If you go that route, you should keep a close eye on any metal parts of your model - especially if you put the RIT dyed tissue on wet.

I like the dope and thinner idea. Nice looking planes. I may try that myself.

Thanks.

Ron King

LAST EDITED ON May-03-04 AT 02:12 PM (CDT)
 

>I've seen mention several times of UV blockers. What
>exactly are they? Where do you get them and how well do they
>work?

I ordered some supposed UV blocker from George Aldrich just prior to his getting sick. Regrettably, the order was not filled prior to his passing. Looks like Randy Ryan got lucky and is now holding out on the rest of us.

In a recent review of the Brodak Cardinal (I believe), someone used Higgins ink, e.g. the ink used by draftsmen, as a dye. You might want to do a test panel. I will in a few weeks after we start getting some of that good summer sun.

Dyed finishes are beautiful, but they catch h*ll down here in Gawga during the summer. Sure do wish there was an effective way to mitigate UV damage?

You get a big ol' beach towel and lay it over your airplane when not flying.

"Yes my freinds I am indeed holding out but for the poultry sum of $49.99, a meazly 50 bucks, one half of a one century note, a half yard, you too can own 1/2 Fl.Oz. of the magic sun blocking elixar!!"

Well, really I only have one little bottle, but a little goes a long way, hence, a "lifetime supply".

...........>In a recent review of the Brodak Cardinal (I believe),
>someone used

Higgins ink,

e.g. the ink used by draftsmen, as
>a dye. You might want to do a test panel. I will in a few
>weeks after we start getting some of that good summer sun.
>
>Dyed finishes are beautiful, but they catch h*ll down here
>in Gawga during the summer. Sure do wish there was an
>effective way to mitigate UV damage?
>Bob

A club member used Higgins "Fade Proof" Red Ink on a Polyspan covered El Diablo. 2 1/2 years flying, in Florida sun, no discernible fading. Ink is added to initial full coat of (thinned) dope, number of coats determines final color, then finish with a 2 - 3 clear coats.
Note: Higgins makes Ink and "Fade Proof Ink".
Roger

See the Attention Gary Tultz thread!!

We get clear days only about 6 days a month here in SE Michigan, so fading usually isn't a concern. Currell

I have had success using some automotive clear coats that had UV blockers already mixed in. Most successful is the Orange Upstart, seen at VSC many times. finish is about 8-9 years old, NO FADE. Polyspan w/ orange analine dye. All dope, except Dupont ChromaClear top clear coat. This is the old Chromaclear. They have a newer environmental friendly stuff also. I have a 2 year old red dye ship that still looks fine.

I'd be VERY interested in buying raw UV blocker

Jim Hoffman

Three stories:

A local guy put UV blocker on his fluorescent paint to keep it from fading. It didn't fade much, but it didn't fluoresce much, either.

World Engines used to sell beautiful light blue silk, which faded badly. I covered all my combat planes with it and put towels on them to block the sun. People thought I was hiding my combat secrets, but I was just trying to keep the airplanes from fading.

I put some red dye in dope and painted a silked combat plane with it. The red looked good, but it bled through and turned the white trim pink. One doesn't show up at a combat contest with a pink airplane.

LAST EDITED ON May-04-04 AT 00:11 AM (CDT)
 
>
>I've seen mention several times of UV blockers. What
>exactly are they? Where do you get them and how well do they
>work?
>
>Ted

Hi Ted

in an effort to start packing up the shop for our move
my son came across this empty can and chucked it in the trash
so I guess we can say
LUCKILY I saw this post and was able to retrieve the can before it met it's doom. LOL !

anyway hear are pictures of the can label with the actual number of the product. It is a "House Of Colors" product
I did do a test over Brodak Purple and Yellow dope with out any problems concerning the application however the Purple did still fade
but we know there was/is a problem with the Candy Purple and I am not sure how it will work with tranparent coverings.

F.W.I.W. the Yellow did not have any fading and Looked good

hope it helps, even if it's a little.

Wish I'd heard all this about plyspan fading before I built my Oriental and finished it all in plyspan. I think the fading issue was first mentioned to me on the day I brought it out to its first contest. Despite my efforts to keep the plane out of the sun, the color was gone before the plane was trimmed. It's brilliant blue on the bottom and sort of a transparent slate gray on top!
--jt