In regards to skill classes in general...

Would it not make sense to have a score range or something? I.e., if in a PAMPA sactioned event, you score more than X, then you move on to the next level. Maybe if you score more than X n number of times. Something of that nature.

Just seems that there should be a fair way to classify the skill levels.

Heck, I've seen people that have flown the Beginner pattern fly in BASIC and take the 1st place trophy from a true BASIC flyer. This guy said something like, "well, I don't have it fully trimmed yet so..."

I suppose regional judging may not be consistent or something, but it sure would seem to make things more fair.

For the record, I don't believe most people fly under their true level, but there always seem to be a few.

Just my 2 cents...

There are a few. And there is a AMA guide, by score, that sets the range for the skill classes. But there is alot ov overlap. And there can be a 100point difference between "local" judging and "Nats level" judging.

If I recall, the AMA guide says Intermediate up to 400. Heck, 400 would barely make it, if at all, to the top ten in Intermediate at the Nats. I think it took about 475 last year.

And the lowest Advanced scores are generally below the top of the Intermediate list.

Not complaining, just observations.

Its nice to feel like you're competitive, and scarry to move up, I think in general, peer and self pressure gets most to go up.

JMHO

It took a 458 to take intermediate in the
wind at the Nats last year and the flyer was
darn glad to get that high of a score.

Of course you're right on the score--I was recalling the score from two years ago.

Tom,

We shouldn't need to make this any more formal than it already is...

Most guys I've met fly in many more "local" meets than travel as total unknowns to distant meets. On their "local" circuits(very loose term, could cover half the east coast, all the lakes states, etc...)they fly mostly against (or 'with' for the "let's keep it fun" guys <g>) people they know, have flown with/against the same guys in recent weeks/months and will again before the season ends.

When PAMPA was working out the Skill Classes, originally, in the 1970's, there was concern about 'sandbagging' -- entering at a Class lower than your ability, so as to 'steal' a cheap trophy. With the emergence of the 'campaigning' style, above, mostly local and with guys you know and who know you, a combination of friendly peer pressure and/or razzing has just about prevented that perceived problem from ever really happening.

Sure there are score-record guidelines, and I've seen buddies bumped-up a Class at a meet, but variations in local areas make it a fool's quest to demand a rigid number aproach. BTW, the guys who were 'promoted' at a meet were flattered that they were so well regarded, and a bit concerned about doing well against the "bigger boys."

Hey guys,

I'm a PA-I flyer and a "sport" "fun/fly" guy. Does it make sense to move a guy to Advanced just because he placed first in Intermediate at a local contest with three entrants? I think that the rule of "let your consience be your guide" should apply. I'll move up if I feel I am taking advantage of people I fly with most of the time in District 8. So far over two years I have place out of the money, 2nd (twice) and 3rd (three times). I'm going to the OKC contest this week and have actually burned a lot of fuel (for me) and feel really good about my chances of winning first place. There will probably be 6-7 entrants. Should I move to Advanced if I do happen to place first?

LAST EDITED ON May-12-04 AT 03:25 PM (CDT)
 
I would say it is up to you--if you are consistently in the top few of Intermediate, it might be time to move up. It must be hard to make a judgement based on events with only a small handful of entrants.

Up here, in many cases Intermediate is the largest class. 12-15 is not unusual.

I would also say that it depends upon the score or percent out of first that you are. Again, it seems there are always a few within a few percent of the top--on any given flight, any one from that group might come out on top. THere can be a large gap of 60-70 points or more then to the other end.

Just for your own development (if that is a goal) if you are consistently in that top group, you may want to consider moving up.

If you get spanked every time out--stay put

Just my thoughts

Curt (Intermediate consdidering the move up myself)

Curt,

Well, I was semi-competitive in Advanced. Usually placed in the top 3 or so. Never won a contest. As a scum-sucking Expert, I get spanked regularly. But then, I'm not really flying against Paul or Brett or Ted, just the other scum-suckers in the immediate vicinity. Maybe we need a Junior Expert class. Yea, that's it.

Randy (ducking and running)

NO problem John. I just called the judges and it's fixed. You will enter Advanced after this contest. Besides, anyone your age, that has built three kits, and lives in a town called "PAMPA" has no other choice.

We will be down Friday about 12or1.
Looking forward to seeing youall again.
BTW if you have any more planes for sale
be sure to bring them as well.

Hi Tom,
I believe the guys here have answered your question about as well as it can be.
Sure there are some guys that will not move up, even when "booted", but they are few and far between.
I believe that the beginner should shoot for Intermediate ASAP. Flying the whole pattern, and getting scored, was to me the immediate goal.
Intermediate is a place that you can dwell in for a while with no complaints from anyone, until you are consistently good enough to move up! You, and everyone else, will know when that is. IMHO, some are scared of the move to Advanced because they have gotten to be a pretty good intermediate flier, and the thought that opportunity for "mantle decorations" will go down is sure to enter the picture.
I think that Advanced is the toughest class to move out of. The step to Expert can be very large. Seemingly greater than any other advancement over the long haul.
I moved to Advanced after a long lay off because I didn't want to fly against my son! LOL!! I was probably ready to do that before the lay off, but it has sure been tough (as it should be) since we came back. Funny thing is, after 5 years, I am flying against the same core of guys as before. Only one guy has moved up. (and of course, we got Busby in the trade, hmmmmmm.... Hi Buzz )
Let's fly, soon!
Bill <><

All valid and excellent points.

If you dominate your class for a year, you should move up.

I had flown Advanced for the last two years and though I won five of the last six contests, I never scored over 500. I thought it was only right to move up to expert. Now, just because I regularly beat our local Advanced competitors,does not nessesarily make me an Expert (especially since expert at our local events will put up against Brett, Ted, Dave, and some times Keith,Paul and Gordy. Hell thats like a mini-NATs right there). So if I attend the Nats, I dont feel like I'm sandbagging if I enter the Advanced class. I have flown Advanced at the NATs, and beleive me it is nothing like Advanced at the local level. I would hope no one would perceive me as a sandbagger only out for the award. Just my thoughts on the matter. Larry, NorCal Circle Jerks