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Marietta Pictures

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aaronl · May 20, 2004 07:50 PM

edited#0 source
Here are some pictures from the Marietta, GA contest this past weekend.

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Kent Tysor's Old Faithful - RO JETT 61 & Windy Pipe

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Dale Barry's Oriental - LA40

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Gene Martin's(left) & Derek Barry's & Staris - PA40 & Aero Pipe

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Gene Martin's Staris - PA40 & Aero Pipe - REALLY NICE PLANE!

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Bob Dixon Take Off - Crystal - P61 & Aero Pipe - WINNING FLIGHT!

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My GeoXL - With some help this thing is starting to work out...

Bill Little · May 20, 2004 08:06 PM

#1 source
Some results:

Expert
1. Bob Dixon
2. Derek Berry
3. Gene Martine

Advanced
1. Steve Fitton
2. Aaron Little
3. Marshall Busby

I hope someone will fill in the rest!
Bill <><

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends.
Japanese Proverb

aaronl · May 20, 2004 08:29 PM

#2 source

Ol' Marshall was flying a TEOSAWKI!

bkruger · May 21, 2004 09:09 AM

#3 source
Aaron;

I happened to see the shot of Derek's Oriental with the LA 40 in the nose. We've heard much theory here recently on whether the Oriental can/might/should/could/would fly well with an LA 40 or 46 as a powerplant.

How did it do?

V/r

Bob Kruger

aaronl · May 21, 2004 09:40 AM

#4 source

> I happened to see the shot of Derek's Oriental with the LA 40 in
> the nose. We've heard much theory here recently on whether the
> Oriental can/might/should/could/would fly well with an LA 40 or 46
> as a powerplant.

It flew good, Dale is a good flier (it is Dale's not Derek's although Derek is building a new one!).

Dale likes it, he had a little to much pitch and was flying a little fast but other than that he was happy. From my conversations with him, he really wishes he had the Aerotiger when he was building it because he wants one of those in there!

I would venture to say the LA46 would prob also do very well, I think that Pat Rowan had a LA46 in his Oriental, maybe he will chime in...

Alex Courtney had LA40s in both of his new Brodak Olympics and he also seemed to like them, same problem a little to much pitch..

I would like to build an Oriental with a Magnum 36!

Hope that helps!

Circle Burner · May 21, 2004 10:25 AM

#5 source
Wow, very pretty planes. Thanks for posting the pictures!

bkruger · May 21, 2004 10:43 AM

#6 source

>It flew good, Dale is a good flier (it is Dale's not Derek's
> although Derek is building a new one!).

Sorry for the typo.

Egad! Naysayers claimed that the beastly LA 40 would ruin the flying characteristics of the Oriental. Must be the "bumblebee" effect.

>
>Dale likes it, he had a little to much pitch and was flying
>a little fast but other than that he was happy. From my

Any idea what his prop/venturi/fuel setup was?

>conversations with him, he really wishes he had the
>Aerotiger when he was building it because he wants one of
>those in there!

We all do. Big difference in price. It would be nice to have a couple of easilly obtained setups for the new ARF Oriental where someone can take an off the shelf engine, bolt on a prop, and have something that will fly quite well.

little to
>much pitch..
>
>I would like to build an Oriental with a Magnum 36!

What prop/venturi setup are you thinking of using?

>Hope that helps!

Sho 'nuff.

V/r

Bob

aaronl · May 21, 2004 11:40 AM

#7 source
>>It flew good, Dale is a good flier (it is Dale's not Derek's
>> although Derek is building a new one!).
>
>Sorry for the typo.

NO Problem man, Derek loves the oriental and even won an expert contest with his old one, Dale also likes them so much he built an "SV" with an Oriental look called Icarus

>Egad! Naysayers claimed that the beastly LA 40 would ruin
>the flying characteristics of the Oriental. Must be the
>"bumblebee" effect.

I don't know, but he flew well, putting up 500++ point patterns with some good judges. Out of curiosity what would make them say that?


>Any idea what his prop/venturi/fuel setup was?

prop was a bolly 10ish 5.75ish
it may have been as high as a 10X6, I know he was pretty happy with the motor run, just wanted a little less lap speed.
Fuel I am thinking was Sig Champion, I know that is what he and Derek and I all had out practicing, but it may be something else don't know that one for sure, venturi no idea would say prob whatever came on it.

>We all do. Big difference in price. It would be nice to
>have a couple of easilly obtained setups for the new ARF
>Oriental where someone can take an off the shelf engine,
>bolt on a prop, and have something that will fly quite well.

i tell u, they are expensive but well worth it (which u probably already know) they last, they are so predictable, they make plenty of power and have that great stunt run.
I think that these LAs would do fine, I would contact Pat Rowan, I am almost positive he had a LA46 on his Oriental!
Alex Courtney's Olympic was around 48oz and he really had no problem with the 40 on it.


>>I would like to build an Oriental with a Magnum 36!
>
>What prop/venturi setup are you thinking of using?

I would use the .255 or .260 I have one that is in that range, I would surely continue with my 3blade, the one i have now is a 12.5 X 3.75 cut down to 10.5, it is an eather. I also liked the Bolly 10.5 X 6.25 that was re-pitched to about 3.75
The thing really seems to be able to turn that 10.5" three blade well, I like to run it just a touch harder so I use around 3.75-4" pitch and am really happy with mine!

I have been using a "chip" muffler but wonder what others are using.


>>Hope that helps!
>
>Sho 'nuff.

Hope this helps again!

bkruger · May 21, 2004 12:36 PM

edited#8 source
>>Egad! Naysayers claimed that the beastly LA 40 would ruin
>>the flying characteristics of the Oriental. Must be the
>>"bumblebee" effect.
>
>I don't know, but he flew well, putting up
>500++ point patterns with some good judges. Out of
>curiosity what would make them say that?

Good question. Apparently there is apprehension on the part of some for going with an engine bigger or heavier than a Fox Stunt 35 on Oriental. Its not that the Oriental won't fly well with a Stunt 35 - it will. Just that having the extra power of a 40 can be rather handy when things go wrong. Concerns include the additional weight from the engine and gyroscopic precession from the larger prop.

Dale and Derek seem to have broken the code on keeping the Oriental light and trimming it to use the bigger LA 40 and get good results.


>>We all do. Big difference in price. It would be nice to
>>have a couple of easilly obtained setups for the new ARF
>>Oriental where someone can take an off the shelf engine,
>>bolt on a prop, and have something that will fly quite well.
>
>i tell u, they are expensive but well worth
>it (which u probably already know) they last, they are so
>predictable, they make plenty of power and have that great
>stunt run.

Absolutely no argument. You get what you pay for. Sometimes those of us with beer budgets find the champagne engines just out of reach....

Actually, I am always looking for something along the lines of what we had back in the '60s and '70s. Back then, you could walk into a hobby shop and plunk down a modest amount of cash for a Fox 35, OS Max-S 35, or even the occasional Veco/Merco 35. You had an engine that was about as good as anyone else was flying. Simple and inexpensive to set up, these engines were competitive with everyone else. Our powerplants and props have gotten much more sophisticated - progress like that is inevitable. Much of that is good, as engines today are very well made and more consistent than before. They are also very pricey. Get into some of the upper end engines with a pipe and you are talking about a sizeable chunk of change.

I am always looking for simple, off the shelf engine solutions that someone can bolt to an Oriental or Twister or Nobler or... and they have a setup that performs better than they can and, if they want, will take them into Advanced with apologies to no one.

With our current schneurle ported Asian Rim engines, it seems that the biggest challenge is converting the raw potential of the engine into useable power. Unfortunately, that seems more often than not to involve expensive CF props. There really is not a good selection of inexpensive low pitch props you can purchase at a hobby shop that are just right for CL apps.


> Hope this helps again!

It did - very nicely. Thanks again.

V/r

Bob Kruger

Bill Little · May 21, 2004 01:07 PM

edited#9 source
Hi Bob,

>Absolutely no argument. You get what you pay for.
>Sometimes those of us with beer budgets find the champagne
>engines just out of reach....

Just throw all the extra old engines on ebay and get a couple of the Aero Tiger 36 or the new PA 40 lite, or Richard's reworked Magnum!

>
>Actually, I am always looking for something along the lines
>of what we had back in the '60s and '70s. Back then, you
>could walk into a hobby shop and plunk down a modest amount
>of cash for a Fox 35, OS Max-S 35, or even the occasional
>Veco/Merco 35. You had an engine that was about as good as
>anyone else was flying. Simple and inexpensive to set up,
>these engines were competitive with everyone else. Our
>powerplants and props have gotten much more sophisticated -
>progress like that is inevitable. Much of that is good, as
>engines today are very well made and more consistent than
>before. They are also very pricey. Get into some of the
>upper end engines with a pipe and you are talking about a
>sizeable chunk of change.

I found that there are GOOD used set ups out there. Especially pipe set ups. The PAs (haven't used a Ro Jett, but many do) last forever in my flying.

>I am always looking for simple, off the shelf engine
>solutions that someone can bolt to an Oriental or Twister or
>Nobler or... and they have a setup that performs better
>than they can and, if they want, will take them into
>Advanced with apologies to no one.

The LA 40-46, Brodak 40, and the Magnum 36 will do just that.
Steve Fitton used a LA 46 in his Time Machine 50 to win Advanced. He was flying on too short of lines when he got there, and experiencing troubles. A new set of lines 4 feet longer (60' to 64')let the engine run where it wanted to, and his patterns went way up!

>With our current schneurle ported Asian Rim engines, it
>seems that the biggest challenge is converting the raw
>potential of the engine into useable power. Unfortunately,
>that seems more often than not to involve expensive CF
>props. There really is not a good selection of inexpensive
>low pitch props you can purchase at a hobby shop that are
>just right for CL apps.

It seems that what you are "looking for" is available, but we have to get used to running them in a different way than the traditional stunt 4-2 run. (except for the LA 40-46) The 25 to 36 and 40 size engines, if not reworked, will do a great job in more of a "pipe" style run, a wet 2 cycle. This does mean a lower pitched prop and the APC props usually will work fine.
I know I'm not telling you anything you haven't already heard, but a lot of people seem to be a little resistant to that line of thinking.

>V/r

>Bob Kruger

Bill <><

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends.
Japanese Proverb

Steve Fitton · May 24, 2004 08:43 AM

#16 source
>The LA 40-46, Brodak 40, and the Magnum 36 will do just
>that.
>Steve Fitton used a LA 46 in his Time Machine 50 to win
>Advanced. He was flying on too short of lines when he got
>there, and experiencing troubles. A new set of lines 4 feet
>longer (60' to 64')let the engine run where it wanted to,
>and his patterns went way up!
>

I can't claim any originality on the LA-46 setup, it is all data posted by others on this forum and SN. Two changes I made at Marietta helped: one was going down to 11 3/4" on the diameter of the APC 12.25x3.75 (note that is exactly the diameter the Moon brothers suggested from the very beginning). This both helped with the annoying prop strikes on debris on the parking lot (with the amount of nuts, bolts and screws lying around you'd think they ran a demolition derby there the week before)and the smaller diameter let the engine run a bit freer over the top of the wingover, etc. Later in practice I commented to Kent Tysor that I thought my lines were too short, and he suggested trying a set of 66' eyelet to eyelet solids. These were a big help, as the LA hauled them with ease and it really opened up things for me. I also borrowed his handle and immediately realized that I had way too much overhang on my regular handle.
One comment I've noticed with my LA 46. It does NOT like to have speed controlled by the needle. It wants to run one speed, which translates to a moderately fast run, a very fast four stroke going upwind breaking into a soft two downwind, and breaking into a clear two in maneuvers. The plane will fly well at a slower four stroke, but the motor will not hold the setting with any reliability and will try to gravitate back to the faster run. If you take off a bit on the lean side, after a few laps the motor will tend to slow back down to its "happy" speed and stay there. But if you prop it to take advantage of where the motor wants to stay, you have a very reliable and strong motor for cheep.


Steve

Dale · May 21, 2004 04:48 PM

#10 source
Bob,
The engine is a stock LA40 that I got from Pat Rowan.I just stuck a .285 venturi and ST NVA on it.I put a little bench time on it and stuck it in the plane.This is Oriental#6 for us and they've all flown well.We used to use Magnum GP40's,but all of mine have worn out.Unfortunately,I didn't realize that when I built this and found myself with a nice looking plane and no engine.This is my first experince with the LA's and so far it's been good.
I started out with a Rev-up 11x6 on it,but knew I had too much pitch,so I went to an Eather 10 3/4"x5 3/4" prop that I had.It liked that except that the engine was most consistent at a slightly faster speed than I wanted to fly.I've since ordered a 10 3/4"x 5 1/2" that I think will be the ticket.
All of our Orientals have had 40"s in them with exception of one with an OS32.They've all weighed 39-43 ozs.Derek's new one will have an Aero Tiger 36,which should be the ideal set-up.I know a lot of people talk about the price of them,but when you consider that baring a crash you just about can't wear them out they really aren't expensive.They are little PA's and we all know how good they are!
The only thing you should consider(and I keep forgetting)is to put a box in the very rear of the fuselage to adjust weight.Using the 40's every one has come out nose heavy,but for the extra power,a 40 or AT36 is the only way to go.
Dale

Jim P · May 21, 2004 05:50 PM

edited#11 source
>It would be nice to have a couple of easilly obtained setups for the new ARF Oriental where someone can take an off the shelf engine, bolt on a prop, and have something that will fly quite well.

Brodak 40-maybe not terribly easily obtained but certainly available, reasonable, and goes with the Oriental like grits and gravy.

gcb · May 22, 2004 08:24 AM

#14 source
...like grits and gravy.

I'll have to try that. I usually put a little salt, pepper, and butter on mine. I've always saved the gravy for biscuits.

What shade of green is your Oriental?

George

Patrick Rowan · May 21, 2004 10:40 PM

#12 source
I've flown 3 seasons with an OS LA 46 powered Oriental. Great combination. Won me a few plaques.
I'm building my 3rd one to be powered by another OS LA 46.
Recomended.

bkruger · May 21, 2004 10:54 PM

#13 source
>I've flown 3 seasons with an OS LA 46 powered Oriental.
>Great combination. Won me a few plaques.
>I'm building my 3rd one to be powered by another OS LA 46.
>Recomended.

Pat;

If you don't mind, what is your prop/venturi/fuel setup?

Bob

Patrick Rowan · May 22, 2004 07:21 PM

#15 source
>Pat;
>
>If you don't mind, what is your prop/venturi/fuel setup?
>
>Bob


Hey Bob,

I bought this OS LA .46 engine from Duane Cowan..288 venturi, fuel I use is 10% nitro, 25% oil 1/2 & 1/2. The best prop I've found is the Bolly 12x4 CF. On grass my landing gear is to short for a 12" prop. So I use a Zinger 11x5 on grass.
On my next Oriental the gear will be a little longer.

undone323 · May 24, 2004 05:40 PM

RE:More Marietta Pictures#17 source
we got the engine run down this past week.....turned out being a plumbing problem..........5.2 laps with eather 10.75/5.75 great 4/2/4 break.......great power and tension all around........

courtney high flyers
dave and al

some winners and placers

GLBahrman · May 27, 2004 11:00 PM

RE:More Marietta Pictures#18 source
Which motor are you talking about???

undone323 · May 28, 2004 04:56 AM

RE:More Marietta Pictures#19 source
we've got la40's reworked by tom dixon in this pair of olympics...they had in other applications run a very nice 424 break....but in the olympics had been running away or giving inconsistant speed through out the flight

problem was that we had plumbed the pickup from the outboard side and crossed to inboard to enter needle valve.......at the suggestion of several folks at marietta, switching nv to proper orientation and doing a little body work and refinishind we are now elated with our combination........

eather 10.75/5.75 64 foot lines .285 vent/st nv 10%/221/2%blend sig champ fuel 5.2 laps/8450rpm launch good tension all around

alex hopes to do well at huntersville week after next

thanx to those who pointed out our mistake

dave and alex

GLBahrman · May 28, 2004 03:03 PM

RE:More Marietta Pictures#20 source
Thanks for the update Dave.