What material should I use fo my filets?

I'm looking for max strength and am not super concerned about weight since the plane will have more than enough motor on it.

The issue is that the wing and fuse is not a perfect fit. Maybe a 7 or 8 on a scale of one to 10. It's already glued in and it sure as heck ain't coming out without major damage. So...

Should I try epoxylite or should I mix epoxy with some microballons or should I go straight epoxy? I intend to do one of the three.

Thanks as always for any suggestions!

Leather. Bill Sawyer sells them. You can search on them here.

>I'm looking for max strength and am not super concerned
>about weight since the plane will have more than enough
>motor on it.
>
>The issue is that the wing and fuse is not a perfect fit.
>Maybe a 7 or 8 on a scale of one to 10. It's already glued
>in and it sure as heck ain't coming out without major
>damage. So...
>
>Should I try epoxylite or should I mix epoxy with some
>microballons or should I go straight epoxy? I intend to do
>one of the three.
>
>Thanks as always for any suggestions!

If these are your choices, Epoxolite or the epoxy/microbaloon (whith lots of microbaloons) would be your best choices. Epoxolite, by itself, is strong enough to hold the wing in place, but you have already said it is not coming out. Epoxy, by itself, is heavy, so you do not wish to fill gaps with this. If you do have gaps, wedge a little balsa in place, using just a little epoxy or CA, and then use a thin Epoxolite fillet. There is some new stuff out that is even lighter than this stuff, but it is still good stuff. Keep your fillets small to keep weight down. It is strong enough.

Tom:
I would take issue with you that weight isn't a problem because you have more than enough power.........weight is always an issue....wing loading has little to do with vertical performance.

Try Aeropoxy lite, either from Windy or Brodak.....I find it easier to use than others and it is light as well as strong.

Have fun!

See Ya

I understand that weight is always an issue, I truly do. But, at the same time, as a newer builder/flyer, I have a lot of anxiety in terms of structure strength.

I expect I'll grow out of this as my skills improve.

I have a Silver Foxx .40 (ABC/BB) engine for this ship and many have said that this will be plenty, if not too much, engine even for a modestly overweight Oriental.

I have no earthly idea where it will tip the scales, but I expect it to be heavier than most based on my current skills.

I do have the Brodak stuff and I will give it a shot.

I am assuming that I should take some scrap balsa (or ply) and make a tool for spreading it along the seam of wing/fuse. Essentially sanding of a corner and creating the shape I want. Am I on the right track here?

BTW-I have no idea what a piece-o-crapola this ship would be without all the input from you guys! It's only my second full bodied ship and the last (of any type) was built seven years ago!

The Silver Foxx .40 is a splendid stunt motor, sweet running, "classical" 2/4. But it is not a very powerful motor. It will not be happy in an overly heavy ship.

Epoxolite is very strong, but the weight can add up. SIG's catalog (brochure?) shows someone trowling it on, making massive fillets. Massive is the key word there!

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"The other day I was playing poker with Tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died." -Steven Wright

Larry (and others),

What would you consider to be overweight for an Oriental with such an engine? I'm guessing that I'll be getting close to the 50oz (RTF) mark when all is said and done. Most likely less, but being conservative I assume the worst.

Again, please note that this will be a ship strictly for Beginner class. If it survives beyond that, I'll be surprised

>Larry (and others),
>
>What would you consider to be overweight for an Oriental
>with such an engine? I'm guessing that I'll be getting
>close to the 50oz (RTF) mark when all is said and done.
>Most likely less, but being conservative I assume the worst.
>
>Again, please note that this will be a ship strictly for
>Beginner class. If it survives beyond that, I'll be
>surprised

TOM,
The time is here, to buy a scale. Cheap ones are available for
low bucks and would help you during your construction process. You
cannot even guess(50ozs), unless you've had lots of experience with
weight determination. Tony

I would consider 50 ounces to be overweight. It can fly at that weight, but you will have to be careful not to overcontrol and lose airspeed in the turns.

Mine was built stock from the Brodak kit, has a reasonable dope finish, and weighs 42 ounces with a Brodak 40. It was also my first full-bodied stunter after a 37-year absense from CLPA. The plane flies much better than the pilot.

I agree that you should bite the bullet and head over to the office supply company and buy a cheap scale. You might be pleasantly surprised.

Enjoy,

To smooth the fillets I use a popsickle stick. Run it over the fillet vertically against the fuselage side then run it across horizontally against the wing- two passes per fillet. Then smooth with your finger dipped in alcohol. This makes a 1/4 in radius fillet. After curing, sand'em with fine sandpaper to knock off the glaze and wipe with prep-sol or equivalent before you paint'em.Best regards, dale g

I would have to agree with the Aeropoxy. It isn't the easiest stuff to use: it's a two-to-one mix, and one part of it is stiff to mix. But the results are well worth it. I lay down masking tape along where I want the fillet to end. Then I lay in a small bead of the mixed Aeropoxy and smooth it in with a balsa stick-to be sure it's in the crevice good. Then I run over it with a round tool-usually a piece of brass tubing the right size. Use it like a round trowel, if you will. Remove the tape, scrape away the sharp edge of the goop with a scrap of balsa, and then run over it once with a fingertip wet with denatured alcohol. Let it set up and sand it lightly with 100 grit sandpaper wrapped around a dowel.

It's strong, light, sands easily, and dope sticks to it. I have yet to have any paint lift.

>I would have to agree with the Aeropoxy. It isn't the
>easiest stuff to use: it's a two-to-one mix, and one part of
>it is stiff to mix. But the results are well worth it. I lay
>down masking tape along where I want the fillet to end. Then
>I lay in a small bead of the mixed Aeropoxy and smooth it in
>with a balsa stick-to be sure it's in the crevice good.
>Then I run over it with a round tool-usually a piece of
>brass tubing the right size. Use it like a round trowel, if
>you will. Remove the tape, scrape away the sharp edge of the
>goop with a scrap of balsa, and then run over it once with a
>fingertip wet with denatured alcohol. Let it set up and sand
>it lightly with 100 grit sandpaper wrapped around a dowel.
>
>It's strong, light, sands easily, and dope sticks to it. I
>have yet to have any paint lift.

Ron B.
F4Fguy

While I'd agree that Aeropoxy is far and away the best of th epoxy based materials,there is a caveat:Mixing is 2:1 BY WEIGHT not volume.The two components are not the same density,so mixing by volume will not give the correct ratio.It may even prevent a complete cure,giving a very "gummy" sanding quality.

SIG Epoxylite can be greatly improved by adding about 1:1 volume of phenolic beads after mixing the two components.This improves both weight and sanding.

Epoxy and microballoons can work well,but it's difficult to get enough filler to go into the mix to give easy sanding.

The lightest and almost as easy is ;BALSA! There are several methods,but I'll attach mine.My F4F was done this way.

>The lightest and almost as easy is ;BALSA! There are several
>methods,but I'll attach mine.My F4F was done this way.
>
>Ron B.

Absolutely beautiful. I note GMA always told me in his letters he used and advised using balsa fillets.

BTW-I have no idea what a piece-o-crapola this ship would be without all the input from you guys! It's only my second full bodied ship and the last (of any type) was built seven years ago!

I think you will find that built properly, the Oriental to be a very good flying airplane. It can take you all the way to advanced, if it survives the journey.....

Heck, Da Dirt and Don McClave fly the Oriental in Expert and do very well. Of course, Don's weighs about 38oz. Might have something to do with it.

Aw heck, what's another pound

I use both Aeropoxy and Epoxolite depending on the situtation, if it's strength you want, my vote is for Epoxolite, it is stronger than Aeropoxy and not much heaver. Follow the advise already given to apply and you will be rewarded with great looking strong fillets.

Gentlemen: I really must defer to leather fillets, which are again available. I used to buy this material from a pattern-maker supply in downtown Los Angeles. Even with leather, it is necessary to add a bit of filler to the edges of the fillets, because the leather doesn't sand worth a darn.

Yeah, Yeah.... There are many who say that it is critical and you must measure by weight only. Yet the instructions I received with the product, Aeropoxy Light. Specifically says, "Non-Critical, 2 to 1 Ratio by weight OR volume". So I don't know where all the false info is coming from?. Following this instruction and measuring by volume and not by weight, I have been sucessful in making really neat fillets on my first try and you can too. Maybe I haven't had mine long enough (6 months) but I have yet to have a separation problem. And if it did what ever would I do? Stir it maybe? I used a popsicle stick also, makes nice small fillets. I'm not selling this stuff it's just happens to be what I used. I see now that we have more options of what to use for fillet material. I don't have a favorite as I have not tried them all. Some say they want to sand the fillets. With the Aeropoxy I formed the shape of the fillet before it got hard and then just did a little clean up and blending sanding and surface sanding in perparation for primer and paint after it set. It's kinda like working with clay and it smoothes out with alcohol and your finger much the same as clay and water. And your basically done. I also have found it comes in real handy fixing flaws in the wood and unwanted surface cracks etc.

The add also says "No separation of componets in storage".. Anybody that has used Aeropoxy knows that is a simply not true. I always mix by weight and have never had a problem.

PS: Good looking ship...

Here is the best stuff and considerably cheaper that model fillers. I used this on building my Lancair 360 and it performs as advertized.

www.polyfiber.com/epoxy

superfil it the product. Sands very easily. I use various sized dowels wrapped with sticky sandpaper. Filits are made with various sized ball bearings soldered to a brass tube. Again use a heat gun to keep the mixture pliable and non sticky. Makes great filits with minimal sanding and extremely light. Used extensively on the Lancair experimental airplane aid environmetally sensitive.

Bob Smiley
A Lancair 360 builder/pilot trying to be a modeler

Looks really good. What is the Peel Ply they speak of that you put over while it cures??

I haven't worked in full-scale composites in a while, but if memory serves correctly...

Peel ply is placed over a composite material while it's curing to give it a uniform, smooth surface texture. After the composite stuff cures, you peel the ply off and voila!, nice smooth surface, ready for finishing.

To answer the original question: I am now using leather fillets. easy to apply and lighter than anything else. I use autobody putty to fill in any goofs at the trailing edge (or elsewhere). The leather accepts dope finishes with no problem.

You ask what is peel ply? It is Dacron. The purpose is to cover the epoxy surface completely with dacron so there are no air bubbles like another fiberglass ply let it cure. Keep it in place until you are ready to glue,sand or work then surface. Remove the peel ply, no need to sand or clean as the surface is already to work.

Purpose of peel ply is to provide a prepared surface for gluing and more importantly to let the waxy substance from epoxy cures to float to the surface on the dacron and when you remove the dacron. WA LA so is the wax.

Bob Smiley

I'll stick with West Systems Microlight fillet maker and 105/205. Very strong and pretty easy to sand.

My son uses the WEST System epoxies in his piano repair business. I was surprised to read that WEST means "Wet Epoxy Saturation Technique". (just how else could it be, with fiberglass cloth?)

From Bob Smiley:

"Here is the best stuff and considerably cheaper that model fillers. I used this on building my Lancair 360 and it performs as advertized.
www.polyfiber.com/epoxy

superfil it the product. Sands very easily. I use various sized dowels wrapped with sticky sandpaper. Filits are made with various sized ball bearings soldered to a brass tube. Again use a heat gun to keep the mixture pliable and non sticky. Makes great filits with minimal sanding and extremely light. Used extensively on the Lancair experimental airplane aid environmetally sensitive."

Bob,

Good suggestions on a nice product.

I'm wondering how the fillets hold up to crash damage.

Incredibly relieved to hear you are okay.

Looking forward to hearing all about it--well, at least most of it--at Stuntathon this coming weekend.