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Ted/Brett prop (Eather)

Stuka Stunt Main Forum · 22 of 22 known posts recovered

godzilla · Jun 06, 2004 10:56 AM

#0 source
I finally tried the Eaher 12 x 3.75 3 blade prop as recommended by Brett (used by Ted, David, Brett etc).

That prop is awesome.

I have been running the 13 x 3.75 and 13 x 4 and have been progessively disappointed in my corners, also the stick loads that are not consistant in the wind. I have been hesitant to switch to a 12" diameter prop, thinking I would lose something overhead. This was simply not the case, if anything the 12" pulls HARDER overhead than the 13" and corners WAY, WAY, WAY, better. The speed is way more consistent also.

Thanks for the help Brett!!! I will try the 11.5 after I put my Mr, Hyde back together...

PS: Does anyone know why Brian's e-mail is sending my e-mails back?

The City Smasher

SRiese5283 · Jun 06, 2004 12:27 PM

#1 source
Hey ZILLA.
R U useing the RJO-65?
What Pipe? and lenght?

Thank you

Scott Riese

godzilla · Jun 06, 2004 02:18 PM

#2 source
>Hey ZILLA.
>R U useing the RJO-65?
>What Pipe? and lenght?

No. Sorry.
Saito 82.

If someone will send me a free RO Jett, I will get you your answers! Ha! Don't forget the pipe!!!!

The City Smasher

Baron · Jun 06, 2004 03:40 PM

#3 source
Scott, here's what I'm doing with my RO-Jett 65. The pipe is Richard's (with the stinger) set up exactly as he recommends, which is "set it to 18 inches, and go fly"! After seeing the article in Stunt News concerning spigots, I decided to try that. Also, I am using the 12.5 narrow 3-blade Eather green prop, pipe pressure and true uniflow on an 8 ounce plastic clunk. I tried taking the pressure to the front inboard side of the tank like a lot of folks around here are doing, but I didn't like the .35 sec per lap speed change from beginning to end of the flight that I was getting. Now I gain about a tenth of a second beginning to just after the clover. I get a couple of leaner laps just before shutdown. Saturday morning, Zilla told me he thought I had about the best run he'd seen on the 65. At least until I messed up my last good prop on a bounced takeoff when a wheel tried to lock up on me (don't ask...that was an experiment that failed...). I'm finding that it takes just a little more pitch on the RO-Jett that what the PA guys are running, due to the RPM range it likes. I'm using about 4.25 pitch on my slightly heavy UHP Bear Nobler, which gives about a 5.45 sec lap time, which the plane seams to really like. Still have some trim issues, but I made some pretty good headway yesterday morning and evening. This was the first truly good flying day here in quite a while. Will the wind never quit?????

Craig Beskow

SRiese5283 · Jun 06, 2004 11:05 PM

#4 source
THANK YOU!!

As for the wind..........move

Scott Riese

Brett Buck · Jun 07, 2004 12:09 AM

#5 source
>I finally tried the Eaher 12 x 3.75 3 blade prop as
>recommended by Brett (used by Ted, David, Brett etc).
>
>That prop is awesome.
>
>I have been running the 13 x 3.75 and 13 x 4 and have been
>progessively disappointed in my corners, also the stick
>loads that are not consistant in the wind. I have been
>hesitant to switch to a 12" diameter prop, thinking I would
>lose something overhead. This was simply not the case, if
>anything the 12" pulls HARDER overhead than the 13" and
>corners WAY, WAY, WAY, better. The speed is way more
>consistent also.
>

I take no credit aside from typing it into the internet. Ted got David and I turned in the right direction on the Eather props. back in the early 90's. And of course, Brian designed and makes them.

12-3.75 UCT (red) I take it? That's a lot more load than the 12.5-3.75 flat-back. But both sound pretty close to a shaft run for a 82 4-stroke....

Brett

Brett

godzilla · Jun 07, 2004 12:41 PM

#6 source
LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-04 AT 05:57 PM (CDT)
 
> I take no credit aside from typing it into the internet.
>Ted got David and I turned in the right direction on the
>Eather props. back in the early 90's. And of course, Brian
>designed and makes them.

Eather rules!!!
Anyone know why his e-mail does not work?

> 12-3.75 UCT (red) I take it?

Yes. That was the prop you told me to get, right? I also got the 11.5 UCT (more undercamber than the 12"). Haven't tried it yet.

That's a lot more load
>than the 12.5-3.75 flat-back. But both sound pretty close to
>a shaft run for a 82 4-stroke....

Well, yes, but that is kind of the point.

Starting with the info that was given to me by Paul Walker, Doug and I started trying new configurations (also, the info gleaned by Frank Williams was very helpful).

The idea has always been that the 4 stroke is completely different animal from the 2 stroke, and must be approached with a "clean slate" point of view. There are several advantages to the behavior of the 4 cycle stunt run (and the 4 cycles themselves) and several disadvantages.

Disadvantages:
1. Weight. It can be a little frustrating that everyone else around you gets to brag on how light there planes are. You take the engine, spinner, and prop out of one of my planes and I guarantee you would not say they are heavy. Put the motor in and the weight once again appears to be less than stellar. Put on an extra coat of clear and all the sudden I am pushing the design limits of the wing. (Just a minor bitch).
2. Lots of moving parts. Not necessarily the smoothest engines compared to the pipe motors. You will need very strong mounts and be prepared for some stress cracks in your airframe, if you skimp on construction.
3. No boost (4-2 break if you will). This could be considered a good or a bad depending on what point in the pattern you are talking about. In the past it could really kill your hourglass if you had the engine loaded and pitched for soft 5' corners. If the engine was set for strong overheads and verticals the corners suffered (Argh!)
4. Poor fuel draw. We already discussed this issue. I am content that I have solved it for my own uses, and I did not even need to resort to a pump (pain in the tookass).

Advantages:
1. No 4-2 break. I know I said this was a disadvantage before, but I mean there is no "duel mode" behavior. What you see is what you get. I have seen the 4 stroke set rich and allowed to "boost" to a leaner setting in the corners and verticals, but that simply has never been for me. I like the linear behavior, good or bad.

2. No rich "4 cycle mode" to deal with. Because the true four stroke is run at a nuetral needle setting, there is no excess charge of fuel trying to blow out the plug. This is a real problem when trying to "underload" a 2 cycle engine (example would be putting a 10" prop on a 65). The 2 stroke engines are succeptable to running "too cold". I believe you spoke of having some issues with the RO Jett when it first came out because of the potential difficulty of running smaller than needed props. The 4 stroke simply does not suffer with this issue. You can put very little prop on a 4 stroke and it will run just fine, showing no signs of trying to "blow itself out". The underloading simply makes the run steadier, as the engine is barely seeing a change between the verticals and the downlegs. There is no "boost" to create speedup when the engine is set well past the peak of the curve.

So a "shaft run" can be a good thing.

3. Great fuel economy. Lets you spend more money on neato fuels.

The City Smasher

Randy Powell · Jun 07, 2004 01:14 PM

#7 source
'zilla,

Well, this is why I've been going to smaller and smaller diameter props. I've tried to maintain some of the blade area, but the reduction in load with the smaller diameter seems to make the engine happy and I have been getting more consisten runs. Still experimenting with pitch in various wind conditions, but I like the smaller diameter.

dirtydan · Jun 07, 2004 04:26 PM

#8 source
Godzilla,

I've got two ex-'zilla Bolly props. They're for sale. Interested?

Eather props are very nice.

Dan

godzilla · Jun 07, 2004 05:58 PM

#9 source
>Godzilla,
>
>I've got two ex-'zilla Bolly props. They're for sale.
>Interested?
>
>Eather props are very nice.
>
>Dan

Aaaaah... no. Should sell well. Try Rush, he's a Paul disciple.

The City Smasher

Randy Powell · Jun 07, 2004 08:34 PM

#10 source
I just picked up a 12x3.75 UCT 3 blade from Bruce Perry. I think he now has a macho PA 65 and needs a "man's prop".

godzilla · Jun 07, 2004 08:45 PM

#11 source
>I just picked up a 12x3.75 UCT 3 blade from Bruce Perry. I
>think he now has a macho PA 65 and needs a "man's prop".

Has he got any more?

The City Smasher

Baron · Jun 07, 2004 10:37 PM

#12 source
Zilla, I have that Eather 12.5 wide 3-blade that appears to have a slight undercamber. Too much prop for my needs. I would trade for something I can more readily use.

Craig Beskow

Brett Buck · Jun 07, 2004 11:08 PM

#13 source
LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-04 AT 11:32 PM (CDT)
 
>>I just picked up a 12x3.75 UCT 3 blade from Bruce Perry. I
>>think he now has a macho PA 65 and needs a "man's prop".
>
>Has he got any more?

Heck, just call Tom Lay, or send Brian $37-some-odd dollars a piece, and you can get all you want.

Brett


p.s. I'm sure you realize this already, but don't go toss out all the Bollys. Today's "miracle breakthrough" is just today's miracle breakthrough. The state of the art marches on, and you just never know, the next big thing might be a different pitch distribution that works still better on a Bolly. Having lots and lots of options is what's important.

I might also note that I don't know that anyone anywhere has actually tried to match the effective pitch of an Eather and a Bolly so that you are comparing apples to apples. The fact that the Eather UCT airfoil has much, much more camber than a Bolly results in a much different effective pitch distribution - and it's exactly the opposite of a Berringer prop, in that the effective pitch goes way up at the tips. In fact, I would be willing to bet that the Berringer prop effective pitch distribution is a lot closer to helical than it looks, for the same reason. You should see what the measured pitch has to be to get the effective pitch helical on an Eather UCT! bb

Baron · Jun 07, 2004 11:29 PM

#14 source
LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-04 AT 11:31 PM (CDT)
 
My mistake. Thought you were responding to me.

Craig Beskow

Randy Powell · Jun 07, 2004 11:58 PM

#16 source
>> I'm sure you realize this already, but don't go toss out all the Bollys. Today's "miracle breakthrough" is just today's miracle breakthrough. The state of the art marches on, and you just never know, the next big thing might be a different pitch distribution that works still better on a Bolly. Having lots and lots of options is what's important.<<

Brett,

I'd say so. Bruce must have had 30 props. He was selling the UCT jobs mostly because he had a pile of them and others.

He's certainly got a lot of options.

godzilla · Jun 09, 2004 12:13 PM

#18 source
>p.s. I'm sure you realize this already, but don't go toss
>out all the Bollys. Today's "miracle breakthrough" is just
>today's miracle breakthrough. The state of the art
>marches on, and you just never know, the next big thing
>might be a different pitch distribution that works still
>better on a Bolly.

True, but I do not know anyone who has switched from the Eather to the Bolly voluntarily, once the suitable subtitute has been determined (at least around here). As you say, the Bolly and the Eather are different animals, and should be treated as such. Very seldom is there a "direct replacement" from one to the the other, and changes in pitch, size, etc. must be taken into consideration to fit the application.

The City Smasher

SRiese5283 · Jun 07, 2004 11:48 PM

#15 source
>Godzilla,
>
>I've got two ex-'zilla Bolly props. They're for sale.
>Interested?
>
>Eather props are very nice.
>
>Dan


>
WHAT do you have Dirt?

Scott Riese

godzilla · Jun 09, 2004 12:07 PM

#17 source
>Godzilla,
>
>I've got two ex-'zilla Bolly props. They're for sale.
>Interested?
>
>Eather props are very nice.
>
>Dan

Dish, please.

What's the latest "pond scum" setup?

suck, boom, blow (repeat)

The City Smasher

dirtydan · Jun 09, 2004 12:35 PM

#19 source
>>Godzilla,
>>
>>I've got two ex-'zilla Bolly props. They're for sale.
>>Interested?
>>
>>Eather props are very nice.
>>
>>Dan
>
>Dish, please.
>
>What's the latest "pond scum" setup?
>
>suck, boom, blow (repeat)


Godzilla,

I am sooo far behind the times when it comes to four-stroke setups. My second Impact, Saito 72 fitted, remains immobile in my shop. It has been flown maybe 6 times this year. Latest was to remove Perry pump from back door and plug resulting open hole. Never did want to try that thing, have some unpleasant memories of them back when using the pumps in RC motors, piped 60s. And I decided the extra weight up front was not in my best interests.

First Impact, Saito 56, is now coming out to play once in awhile, but it continues to be fitted with Eather 12.5-5 three-blade prop, launched at a mere 8300. YS 25/20 fuel, added some nitro and Klotz.

Your description of the Otto cycle is incorrect: Suck, squeeze, bang, blow.

Please do not make this mistake again.

Following Stuntathon this weekend I will be concentrating on new model and Saito 72. Be prepared for some questions...

PW's setup continues to look Killer to me, but you may well know more about what he is doing than I do.

Dan

godzilla · Jun 09, 2004 06:11 PM

#20 source

>PW's setup continues to look Killer to me, but you may well
>know more about what he is doing than I do.
>
>Dan

Indeed...

I have no doubt that Paul's setup is killer. In fact, all I wish to accomplish is what Paul seems to be doing without any fiddling. Of course, there have always been descrepancies in what works from location to location, so I figure thisis normal.

Every time I talk to Paul I ask myself, what am I doing wrong?

The City Smasher

David Hoover · Jun 09, 2004 06:54 PM

#21 source
'zilla,

You just made a three stroke engine. Ya gotta have squeeze or you'll never get any boom.

Suck, squeeze, boom, blow (repeat)

Best, Hoovie

Life is simple. Eat. Sleep. Fly.