Another Idea

Let's have a Stunt only contest that is located in different part of the country every year. We could call it the PAMPA Championship and would include all the PAMPA classes. Since the Nat's are a long way to travel for many people this would be a good idea and opportunity to fly in something that resembles the Nat's with the same format.

The contestants will be chosen from the PAMPA districts 1-11 and you must qualify to be able to enter this contest. To qualify for the PAMPA Champs you must acquire a sufficient amount of points in your district for your PAMPA class to go to the PAMPA Champs. We could adopt the MACCA point system or with some slight variation to qualify for the contest. The first, second, and maybe third place qualifiers in each class from each district would be invited to the contest and allowed to compete for the PAMPA Championship of their class.

Clubs around the country would be able to host such an event would be chosen by a committee to make sure they have the site and the man power to put on such a contest. It would be the responsibility of the hosting club to insure that the contest is run at the highest level possible. Clubs could also place bids on the event or have fundraisers, raffles, or acquire donations with the money being used to help pay some of the expenses for high quality judges.

In addition, there could be T-shirts handed out to the to the top twenty flyers in each PAMPA class from all across the country. I see this as a good way to improve attendance at many local contests and a way of recognizing the accomplishments of the flyer from each PAMPA class. The top twenty qualifiers from across the country would automatically qualify with the remainder of the contestants filled in from their respective district. This has the potential of fielding 88 or more flyers from around the country. That is a big contest.

I would volunteer to take care of all the calculating, recording the contest results, and posting a listing for each district (in Stunt News if possible) of the modelers acquired points.

Any takers and/or other volunteers??

Mike,

This is certainly an interesting idea on a couple of levels. For many of us not on the upper east coast or in the mid-west, the Nats are something we will likely never see; or only see once or twice in our lifetimes. The distance and expense are just too great. But a traveling contest (as the Nats used to be) would at lease give flyers that will never see a Nats a chance to see a premier contest at least every so often (as it travels to their general area) and give some that are precluded (by money, time, or other considerations) the chance to fly in a high level contest and test their skills against flyers they normally only read about.

I like the idea, but am not sure if many clubs could carry it off. Some certainly.

Mike....several years ago (8?) I proposed that there be a "regional Nats" every other year, migrating back to Muncie, mayhaps on the "non-Team Trial" years? Thus a "major" at the AMA site annually.

The advantages of moving the CLPA Nats to one of, say, five other venues is that it would allow many to participate that normally wouldn't trek to Muncie......

Start, Say, in the Great Northwest. Then to the Southeast, then South Central, then Northeast, and then Southwest.

If we (PAMPA) were able to wrest the venue from our AMA alternating years I would imagine that the decade's participation, in actual numbers of flyers, would significantly increase. When the Nats were held at various military compounds, locals were frequently pressed into service, and did well, as I hear. Our AMA provides a lot for our Nats, but mostly their support is stuff that could be prepared well in advance and shipped to a distant site.
I thought it a good idea then, and still do.

See Ya

Good rotation, but you may want to shift it based on the weather in each region during the period of the contest. The NW and NE tend to stay colder and wetter longer in the spring than the SE and SW. Just a thought.

Mike, I like the basic idea as a concept. My major concern on Doug's TOC was the vision of larger airplanes with non-stunt equipment "required". That would very definitely limit participation.

My first thought on yours would be whether the name or some such would need to be altered somewhat since PAMPA was chartered as a SIG within (or under) AMA to oversee the Nats. It would seem that the Nats winners would thus become the PAMPA champion. However, the concept is good as a "invitation only" (hence you must earn your stipes) contest, and one that would be held elsewhere for those who cannot make the Muncie Nats. And I don't think finding sites would be a problem. You only need four or five scattered around the country, and only one every four or five years.

There is one other thought that comes to mind, however, and that is the possibility of sandbagging at regional contests. With the TOC concept it was expert only, so there would be no sandbagging. With this being invitation only, based on points accumulated, might there not be a tendency for someone, say in Intermediate, who starts to win, but doesn't move up because he wants to be invited to the "championships"?

I don't have an answer for this, but just thinking of it off the top of my head.

Mike:

I like your idea. Why not have a PAMPA champion? This sounds like another way to promote the sport/hobby, and I am all for that. I like both yours and Doug's ideas.

>Mike, I like the basic idea as a concept. My major concern
>on Doug's TOC was the vision of larger airplanes with
>non-stunt equipment "required". That would very definitely
>limit participation.
>

Again I tell you Leonard that nothing more than a normal plane is REQUIRED! Only if you the pilot want to try something different.

Rememmber it is all up to the pilot as to what he brings to the contest.

>>Mike, I like the basic idea as a concept. My major concern
>>on Doug's TOC was the vision of larger airplanes with
>>non-stunt equipment "required". That would very definitely
>>limit participation.
>>
>
>Again I tell you Leonard that nothing more than a normal
>plane is REQUIRED! Only if you the pilot want to try
>something different.
>
>Remember it is all up to the pilot as to what he brings to
>the contest.

Doug, you are absolutely correct. I think it would be incumbent upon people to READ the threads\posts. I never read in any of your posts where the planes HAD to be a minimum size. The difference hear is we would not have to have a MAXIMUM engine size as in current AMA RULES. As I see it, if you want to have a 600 sq. inch ST46 powered SUKHOI on 63 foot lines, great. But you will have to go up against a monster, honking Saito 1.00\1.2 (notice the bias towards Saito's)powered Edge 540 on 80 foot lines whether you like it or not.
The one requirement as I see it, would be to have the planes look like current scale arobatic ships like the RC TOC.
More than likely, the physical limitations as to what can be effectively driven through the pattern will start to manifest itself. But remember, Paul Walker and Windy Urtnowski didn't seem to have any trouble taking care of serious business with a monster B17 and B25!!
It is clear to me that most stunt flyers do not want to see significant changes to existing events. Starting from a clean sheet of paper like a TOC is probably the better way to go.

I give up, guys. You guys are dreamers. If the big planes are allowed, then you will have to produce it in order to compete. If you have to produce anything beyond what is normally allowed for other events most people won't build the plane. Hence most people will choose not to compete.

I don't care what you do, but be realistic. This isn't a dream outside the box thing as if suddenly 80 people are going to be clamoring to compete in an event requiring bigger equipment.

Just remember, in PA stunt today anything is allowed up to a certain size. Just look at what is being used to compete at the highest levels. It isn't the small stuff. A Nobler powered by a Fox 35 is not going to win unless the conditions are ideal. And you aren't going to put a smoker and retracts and the other "wow-em" stuff on an Impact powered by a VF 40. When you allow that stuff, give extra points for that stuff, you require it for all who wish to truly compete. If they have to build it for this one special event, they won't come.

And even thinking scale like planes is requiring special equipment for most of the flyers. Maybe Billy and Paul and Windy and Al (who is no longer competing) and a few others already have equipment that would fill the bill. But for most others it would require something new which they may not be willing to do.

>I give up, guys.

I doubt that...

>You guys are dreamers.

The Moons especially. Never noticed that before? Big dreamers the Moons. A lot of "out of the box" thinking.

Hard to read these guys if you are a "I like the box just fine ,thank you" kind of guy.

>Let's have a Stunt only contest that is located in different
>part of the country every year.

I like it. The main problem is finding sites.

>>Let's have a Stunt only contest that is located in different
>>part of the country every year.
>
>I like it. The main problem is finding sites.

----------------SNIP------------------------------------------

And finding volunteers to run the thing.

>>Let's have a Stunt only contest that is located in different
>>part of the country every year.
>
>I like it. The main problem is finding sites.

Sites is NOT the issue.

Getting off our butts and putting it together and getting the people to volunteer is the REAL issue.

I go to the DMAA meetigs from time to time and there is always a need fpor our local contest to get volunteers. Now add another really big in there and it ups the ante even more.

Getting started and doing something is the real issue.

AND THAT INCLUDES ME!

>>I like it. The main problem is finding sites.
>
>Sites is NOT the issue.

Sites are the #2 problem. If you were going to do such a thing, it makes far more sense to simply include the existing big contests (NWR, SWR, Golden State, King Orange, etc.) and make them the qualifiers instead of trying to invent new one. The calendar is close to full already, and finding sites large enough and good enough to be used is a very very difficult issue - so you should take advantage of the existing arrangements instead of trying to invent new ones.

Problem #1 is obvious - as long as the AMA gives out the Walker Trophy, the NATs is where the focus will be.

Brett