28 Fighter planes from WWI & WWII at Boeing's Museum....

...of Flight, in Seattle. A new wing has been added to the museum, called "The Personal Courage Wing". On display are 28 fighters, some of which (the WWI, but also possibly WWII Axis aircraft) are replicas. They already had a nice Corsair, and now a P-47D. What else, I won't know, until I get a chance to visit. If you have a chance, be sure to go. Not far from Sea-Tac Airport. There are some other good aviation museums in the PNW, so it might be a good vacation to take them all in. Olympia Airport Museum. Vancouver, WA's "Pearson Air Museum". "Evergreen Aviation Museum" in McMinville, Oregon. Any others that I missed, round these parts? Steve

There's the Tillamook Air Museum in Tillamook, Oregon. Said to be the largest wood building in the world, the museum is in a WWII blimp hangar. http://www.tillamookair.com/

Our loss is your gain.

The airplanes were the basis of the Champlin Fighter Museum here at Falcon Field, Mesa.

The WWI hangar had a whole row of Sopwith designs, including a triplane, a whole row of Fokkers including an Eindekker, and a good variety of others. It was amazing to walk in a hanger full of airplanes that old and peer into the cockpits.

The WWII hangar had a Spit IX, Me 109, P-40, FG-2 Corsair, P-38, a Jap Oscar, a P-47 and of course a P-51. I'm sure there are a couple I am forgetting. Amazing place, really.

Between the two main hangars was a little area for jets with clean F-86, Mig-15, F-4 and a later model Mig.

The museum's FW-190 was kept out and has recently undergone a restoration to the same shape it was in when it was delivered to the USAAF at the end of hostilities.

It's good the planes have a good home, but I'm sad to see them leave the local airport.

Cy

I visited the Champlin museum back in the early 80s. There were many impressive WW1 aircraft but the one that caught my eye was a bird like Taube. The Eindecker was neat and I took quite a few photos of it.

I also remember an impressive wood carving on display of two full size eagles tumbling in the air.

Sad that it is now history.

LAST EDITED ON Jul-02-04 AT 00:05 AM (CDT)
 
http://www.museumofflight.org/collections/champlinindex.html
http://flight.projecttest.net/
http://www.museumofflight.org/

My brother, the retired Rockit Scientist, is here visiting from China Lake NWTC, and we're going to the Museum of Flight. Poking around on the 'net, found some url's that I thought might interest some of you. I doubt if the chow will be as good as the Big $$$ D-Bat feed, however. Steve

http://www.nwskyraiders.com/index.html

Edit: Adding pictures. Most of the WWI stuff was repro, as expected. There is a pre-WWI Caproni monoplane in unrestored (and scruffy) condition.

The GeeBee Z is a replica. Talked to bro about the GeeBee that Dad flew after one of the Cleveland Air Races. He said Dad flew it first, after instructions on how to use rudder trim during takeoff, and it went ok. The next USAAC hotshot didn't pay attention, and rolled it up in a ball, presumably fatal mistake. Any GeeBee historians? The description I got from Dad sounded like the Z.

The Razorback P-47 is one of my favorites.

The SR-71 is interesting, with this rare drone launch pylon setup. One attempt to launch the drone, destroying one SR-71 mothership and killing the crew, was all it took to convince them that it was a bad idea. Either this is a different one than displayed in 2001, or it has been modified to also display the drone gizmo.

Anyway, the museum was pretty cool, tho the old "Red Barn" has been mostly stripped of it's real gems. I noticed a model of the old APS "Hannibal" ugly British airliner, hanging from the ceiling. It was built and flown in FF Scale by the late Bill Giffen of the Vancouver BC area. I'd seen Bill at least attempt to fly this critter at Harts Lake Prairie, near Tacoma.

LAST EDITED ON Jul-02-04 AT 00:31 AM (CDT)
 
A few more thoughts on the museum. There are two Corsairs, one a Goodyear "Super Corsair" (ugly). It's in the main gallery, the Chance-Vaught in the "Personal Courage" wing. The SR-71 is one mighty big Mother! The Spitfire on display was a lot nicer made/restored than the one in the Royal Australian War Memorial Museum in Canberra, ACT, something that has made me wonder for 20+ years now. The library/archives is across the street in another building, sounds as though it is accessible. We just barely had time to do a walk-through of the Concorde. Not too bad...at least I didn't whack my head going through the doors, which is SOP on DC-9's. It is the epitome of the "flying silo". A steady alcohol drip would have been required for me to fly in one. Brother Hugh had seen the Champlin Museum in Mesa, and said that this was a huge improvement; shed no tears for AZ's loss. Lots of personal artifacts, letters home, letters to parents by Commanding Officers, etc. Really well done, but very difficult to photograph. Steve

HI Steve. That Gee Bee looks like the one the Williams Bros. either built or had built in the 70's.(Or so I heard it mentioned at the air show). I first saw it at an airshow at Brown Field near San Diego in 1976 or 77. Still have photos. That's the airshow where the inexperienced line boy put jet fuel in Bob Hoovers plane which was recip powered. He did his usual engine off stunt only it was not part of the show!! He made sure the line boy was not fired. Figured he would never ever make that mistake again. Nice touch. There is an SR71 or A11 here at the Space Museum and it is a long mother. I visited the Champlin Museum in 98 I belive and they mentioned something them abut it being moved, but not where to. They were also giving (for big bucks) flights in a PT 22.

All the airplanes had good descriptions about who built them, if they were a replica, and the ones from the Champlin Museum were so noted. A few airplanes were on loan, such as the FW 190 (Champlin still owns it). The replicas seemed pretty authentic, and appeared to be flyable in most cases. Some that were not flyable were so noted, so the implication is that the rest could fly. The Taube hangs in the entry hall, and I didn't get a good picture of it, and many others, because of the backlighting. If you're interested in photographing airplanes, look for a cloudy day...November should do it. They were selling biplane rides out on the ramp, in Stearman's...or maybe Boeing's version of the PT-17. Didn't get a price. Steve

Two weeks ago I attended the museum and viewed the new addition. Out of the nine or so museums I have seen this setup is extremely well done. Many of the planes are in diaramas, there are visitor activated sound and video clips, many personal written experiences, movie theaters cycling video audio movies and tv monitor video audio clips. All in all a very exciting experience. After you have viewed this museum, you have a much clearer understanding of WWII and why we were involved and how necessary it was for us(the US) to use all means available to end the war.

I plan to go back again.

FWIW. The EAA Arlington fly in is this week and weekend at Arlington, Washington airport. Saturday is the best day to attend. Check out the Lancair Legacy. The sweetest experiemental airplane ever.

Bob Smiley
A Lancair 360 builder/flyer trying to be a modeler

If you are ever in Pensacola, Fla. don't miss the Naval Air Museum there. It is located at the Pensacola Naval Air Station. I haven't been to many air museums but I was greatly impressed with this one. When we were there in 1995 they were in process of adding an $ 8 million expansion to the museum.

They had on exhibit an exact replica (supposedly flyable) of the first naval aircraft. It was a float plane on which Glenn Curtis underbid the Wright Brothers to get the construction contract. I believe the date was 1913. The replica was built from the original plans by some group made up of employees in the aircraft industry. Ones of the newer exhibits was one of the early space capsules which ordited the earth. I guess they had just about every naval aircraft in between these two as well as later ones. Also exhibited were many non-navy aircraft.

They have many of the WW II aircraft including one of the few remaining Japanese Kawaniski(?) N1K2 "George" fighter planes. I could go on and on listing the planes they had on exhibit. I'll just stop here and recommend that you visit if you ever get a chance.

The Gleen Curtiss plane is the "Triad" and yes it will fly. The Navy flew it at the 50th anniv. of Aviation (1963) and launched a T2J Buckeye from the starboard steam catapult every hour on the hour while tied up at the pier in Pensacola. We did the same thing at San Diego, 1962, while tied up to Juliette pier at North Is. and launched an F8U Crusader every hour on the hour, at full afterburner. Most impressive. The Naval Air museum in Pensacola was great in 1964 when it was first opened. There was only one very old retired chief running the place and I had my wife ask him a long question at the far end and I climbed into the F4B4 they had there. No ropes, so I could not resist. Very small cockpit and now I know why all fighter pilots in the early days were so small. They couldn't fit if they were over 5' 9".

The Naval Air museum in Pensacola was great in
>1964 when it was first opened. There was only one very old
>retired chief running the place and I had my wife ask him a
>long question at the far end and I climbed into the F4B4
>they had there. No ropes, so I could not resist.

Hello Ty,

Good to hear about the early days. There was a F4B4 there so it is probably the same one you saw.

When we were there my wife and I were lucky. It was on a Thursday and was supposed to open for tours at 9:00 AM. The tours were conducted by retired naval aviation personnel. When time came around my wife and I were the only ones there so we got a personal guided tour. I think our guide took a lot more time with us than on a normal tour. I had a cousin who was a naval test pilot there before WW II started. He was killed in an accident while testing a plane so the guide was interested in visiting with us.

One plane I was interested in looking at was a Yellow PT 17. The guide said it was called the "Yellow Peril" since so many potential navy pilots washed out while flying it. George Bush, Sr. was one of those who survived it. They also had some of Georgre Bush, Sr. personnel evaluations on display. As I remember they were pretty good evaluations.

Interesting place. I recommend it!!!

LAST EDITED ON Jul-08-04 AT 01:09 AM (CDT)
 
The Navy "Yellow Peril" was the N3N-3. Built at the Naval Aricraft factory in Philadelphia. It was primarily a float plane. Ugly as sin, not as good looking as the Boeing-Stearman PT17. In 1976 I was able to send my son and youngest daughter up in a PT-17 and a N3N-3. As to the F4B-4, it was originally in Navy colors, but was refinished in USMC colors. (Marine Avaiators are NAVAL AVIATORS). And let's face it, if it ain't got a tail hook, what good is it?

The Gee Bee Z replica was built at Fla-Bob airport in the mid seventies by the late Bill Turner. His experiences include a braking system induced off runway exursion that had it onit's back. It was repaired and went on to fly for many years. It starred in The Rocketeer and was flown by Steve Hinton, who allegedly didn't like it's handling characteristics. The airplane hung in the Museum of Flyings Santa Monica Museum until moved to storage.

The real Gee Bee Z was destroyed in a record attempt in Detroit December, 1931. Pilot Lowell Bayles was killed. The most likely reason was high speed structural failure induced by aileron flutter.It is made famous by newsreel coverage that has been seen in many films and some documentaries.
Chris...

I'll bet I've seen that newsreel twenty times. I also read that they thought the oil cap came off and he couldn't see and lost control, but aileron flutter sounds more logical. Jimmy Dolittle flew it, but said it had to be turned gently. It had a very strong tendency to roll to the left. Gyroscopic precession, torque roll?

LAST EDITED ON Jul-09-04 AT 07:46 AM (CDT)
 
Or wing warp? Maybe just needed a flap tweek? The Boeing Museum has an F4B-4. Pa said he flew one, at least once. Edit: That would have been the P-12 Army version. When the 1st Pursuit Group was waiting for their Seversky P-35's, they had to give up their P-26's to another group, and got stuck into Curtis P6E's. Dad wasn't happy about that, the P6E was a dog, at least compared to the P-26, one of his two favorites. The other favorite was the B-25. Sadly, Boeing has neither (yet!). Steve

The funny part is the Curtiss P6E version flew worse than the FllC version. The F11C had a radial and a tail hook!!!!

>I'll bet I've seen that newsreel twenty times. I also read
>that they thought the oil cap came off and he couldn't see
>and lost control, but aileron flutter sounds more logical.

I recall reading somewhere, years ago, that the oil cap (or gas cap) came off, went through the canopy and hit him in the face. You could supposedly see it in the newsreel footage (presumably going over blown-up prints with a magnifying glass). Don't know if my recollection is right, though..

Right Isky!

The oil cap story has been the accepted diagnosis for that particular Gee Bee crash for decades but modern analysis and experience with the reproductions point to wing/aileron flutter as a more likely caused the crash by instigating catastrophic wing failier.

I'm sure that we've all noticed that the repro's no longer have the gas cap located in the original location...

I just love Gee bees!

Bigs

" What constitutes the dignity of a craft is that it creates a fellowship, that it binds men together and fashions for them a common language. For there is but one problem - the problem of human relations."