For West Coasties-Mr. Hyde trimming

You guys may remember the Mr. Hyde, I flew it (badly) in last year's Nats. It was a real handful in the high winds to be sure.

Just wanted to let you know that I have been paying attention, and now I actually think the thing flies pretty good! In fact, one I get a motor run, it may be unstoppable (at least for me).

Here is a list of stuff I have done.

1. Removed the engine offset (ALL of it).
2. Removed the wiggle rudder.
3. Removed ALL of the rudder offset.
4. Reduced the diameter of the prop to the Eather UCT 12 x 3.75 recommended by Brett fropm the 13" (blue) three blade. I have yet to try the 11.5 UCT 3 blade, but Doug and I are both hot to try it soon on the PA and Saito.
5. Flap elevator ratio is set 1 to 1.
6. Removed the counterbalanced elevators.
7. Sealed the hingelines front and rear (love that Scotch magic tape!)
8. Added slight downthrust to engine (2 degrees).
9. Low pitch high RPM engine run (low boost).
10. Ted Handle and cables (Doug really seems to like that the best).
11. Cable cut 2 feet short of max (copying Ted).
12. Leadouts set to 1" behind the CG.
13. CG set to 23% MAC.

I flew it last night with the Saito 72 back in service (darn crazy 82 was giving me fits). Aside from needing to change venturis, I would say the boy is fixed!

Setting all the yaw factors back straight and re-setting the leadouts to the correct (theoretical) postion simply fixed the sucker! I have never had line tension that stays so even, even at very slow speeds. Heck, I put in a whole pattern a 5.65 lap time on short lines and with a 4 cycle. That is slow!!! I could have fallen asleep ath the start of the rounds and been back awake and rested before it got the bottom!

Apparently, the induced yaw built into the adjustments was making the line tension fluctuate quite a bit, as I used to have to fly much faster to keep the plane at the end of the lines.

The turn is waaayyyy more non-event.

Thanks for all the posts. I understand that it takes patience to answer some of the same questions more than once.

Godzilla,

This is so incredibly annoying. Don't you know that a primary trick to enjoying CL Stunt is to ask questions, refute the answers and go back to doing things the wrong way?

One is never expected to actually go out and try reasonable suggestions.

And then when they work, why underline the "He's an idiot" suspicions by coming back on and detailing the changes you have made?

I see you got a fan letter in a recent issue of Flying Models. Someone took all of your advice in the painting article. How odd. But a real good job by you.

What launch rpm are you looking for with the mentioned Eather props and the 72? If it's in excess of 15K, don't tell me. Otherwise I would like to know.

>Godzilla,
>
>This is so incredibly annoying. Don't you know that a
>primary trick to enjoying CL Stunt is to ask questions,
>refute the answers and go back to doing things the wrong
>way?

I have known that for some time. The cure is some seriously humbling butt whippins'.

>One is never expected to actually go out and try reasonable
>suggestions.

Depends on the source I suppose. I have gotten great advice from beginners and horrible advice from experts (and vice versa). It simply takes some time to "filter" the bad stuff out.

>And then when they work, why underline the "He's an idiot"
>suspicions by coming back on and detailing the changes you
>have made?

I am an idiot. That being said, if I consider myself an idiot what does that make the guys more stupid than me?

>I see you got a fan letter in a recent issue of Flying
>Models. Someone took all of your advice in the painting
>article. How odd. But a real good job by you.

Really? What issue? I would like to see that.

>What launch rpm are you looking for with the mentioned
>Eather props and the 72? If it's in excess of 15K, don't
>tell me. Otherwise I would like to know.

I was running at 10,450 last night. I like to see about 10,850 with this prop. The Saito 82 on 30% nitro would free spin at 11K.

I think that the Saito 72 with the UHP manifold at .310, mufler pressure, 15% heli fuel and the Eather 12" should equate to 10,850. I was running a large needle with the .310 last night. That is equal to about a .015" choke.

The Saito 72 also richens more after takeoff than the Saito 82. I am convinced it is the pressure tap.

>>I flew it last night with the Saito 72 back in service (darn
>crazy 82 was giving me fits). Aside from needing to change
>venturis, I would say the boy is fixed!
>
>godzilla,
Looks like you got a consistant thing going with the 72. My guess is that the 82 is more "loaded for bear" then the 72. Quite possibly makes it more touchy. No doubt you will work it out with venturi's.

"Last Sunday,I had the best result all season. I won by default. I told the CD that I mix my own fuel. Everybody split. A win is a win."
"Homer J. Simpson"

LAST EDITED ON Jun-17-04 AT 06:30 AM (CDT)
 
Dont saito make a .91?

whens that gonna be tested ?

>Dont saito make a .91?
>
>whens that gonna be tested ?

It's been tested. Windy had one at the Nats a couple of years ago. It is heavy, however, in comparison. The .82 is based on the same case as the .72, I believe, which is what makes it intriguing for the guys using the .72

>Dont saito make a .91?
>
>whens that gonna be tested ?

I spoke to Windy before he got the .91 and after he used it. He said it had too much power and was too hard to control within the regime of a stunt pattern. He had to used very large diameter, low pitch props in order to control it. That said, somebody else of course could make the motor work. Just about any engine can be made to work in stunt if you are dedicated enough. I was going to purchase the .91 before the 72 hit the market. I decided against it because I felt the vibration was brutal!

"Last Sunday,I had the best result all season. I won by default. I told the CD that I mix my own fuel. Everybody split. A win is a win."
"Homer J. Simpson"

I decided against it because I felt
>the vibration was brutal!

This the problem with the 82 for me. Mr. Hyde does not have enough nose for this sucker!

> I decided against it because I felt
>>the vibration was brutal!
>
>This the problem with the 82 for me. Mr. Hyde does not have
>enough nose for this sucker!

Uh-oh. This does not sound good. I seem to have saved a bit of money. Thanks.

I was recently invited to do a control line flying display for a club who was putting on a public demonstration of model aircraft, everything from rc scale, aerobatics, to gliders.

Anyway the point of my story and how it ties in with this thread is thus :

There was a guy there who was flying a fairly large scale Mustang, wingspan was about 80 Inch. Rc of course!
It was zooming around the sky and sounding VERY barky. As he landed i went up to him and asked " what motor do U have powering that sucker"

he replied "saito .72

I told him guys are now using those exact motors in aircraft of similar weight and size to my f2b ship, He looked over picked my model up and laughed saying "your kidding!"

true story!

>
>There was a guy there who was flying a fairly large scale
>Mustang, wingspan was about 80 Inch. Rc of course!
>It was zooming around the sky and sounding VERY barky. As he
>landed i went up to him and asked " what motor do U have
>powering that sucker"
>
>he replied "saito .72
>
>I told him guys are now using those exact motors in aircraft
>of similar weight and size to my f2b ship, He looked over
>picked my model up and laughed saying "your kidding!"
>
>true story!

Same thing happened to me. I my case, it was guy with a Saito 72 in a 6.5 lb RC Mustang and my Saito 72 powered Backfire 3. I let him pick up my plane. He couldn't believe I was using the same engine as him. I explained to him that we can't fly at the speeds you guys do so, we can't take advantage of velocity and kinetic energy to the extent you cats can. We work off "grunt." Made sense to him.

I know this is a little off topic, but i couldnt' be bothered creating a NEW post for it, So i thought id chuck it on the end of this, and see if any fish bite.

Ive considered this for a long time, but im at a loose end as to how to excecute it.

The new Fighter Jet F22 Raptor has whats dubbed "vector alter Thrusters"
or for those who dont know what that is, its where when the pilot give UP on the elevators the thrusters move up also, to change the direction for that moment to increase thrust in a downward or upward motion, For increase reposnse so they tell me.

Now, I know for a fact that there has been a few scale versions of this dont in rc scale, complete with the V.A.T system, and i hear reports its quite manouverable, compared to say the f16 model. Whihc this particual person also had a model of. Now this could be due to the better design or the V.A.C system.

My question is this. Im sure many of you already know it before I finish.
But.. How would u go about doing a similar version for a stunter? Say engine downthrust/upthrust for the corsponding directions?
Could it be done to link up with the controls? Say move the engine 1 degree each way? are there any theories as to whether such a setup would help to get us closer to the elusive 5ft radius?

I was thinking.. an r/c style radial engine mount, with a horn similar setup as to work off the bellcrank.

>>But.. How would u go about doing a similar version for a
>stunter? Say engine downthrust/upthrust for the corsponding
>directions?
>Could it be done to link up with the controls? Say move the
>engine 1 degree each way? are there any theories as to
>whether such a setup would help to get us closer to the
>elusive 5ft radius?
>
>I was thinking.. an r/c style radial engine mount, with a
>horn similar setup as to work off the bellcrank.

Yes, I certainly think it could be done. But more than likely the effort of the bellcrank driving 3 movements, the flaps, the elevators and the motor tilt will call for a REALLY BIG bellcrank and high leverage controls.
As to the issue of the 5 foot corner, talk to Gene Schaeffer or anybody who ever seen him fly. They will explain what a 2 foot corner looks like!!

"Last Sunday,I had the best result all season. I won by default. I told the CD that I mix my own fuel. Everybody split. A win is a win."
"Homer J. Simpson"

Until it was tried who's to say how it would effect the controls themselves.

Im more interested in if it would offer any advantage??

Its really hard to say. I was hoping someone out there would have an idea?

>Same thing happened to me. I my case, it was guy with a
>Saito 72 in a 6.5 lb RC Mustang and my Saito 72 powered
>Backfire 3.

So when are you going to post some pictures?

>>Same thing happened to me. I my case, it was guy with a
>>Saito 72 in a 6.5 lb RC Mustang and my Saito 72 powered
>>Backfire 3.
>
>So when are you going to post some pictures?

If you remember some posts back, I posted pictures of myself and my Saito 72 early test stand work. Leonard tried to help me posts the other pics by sending me some software. I never got the software to work right and I gave up on posting not only the Backfire pics but my early Joker series and my foam wing cutting activities and scads of other stuff. The 50k limit is too difficult for me to deal with. If it was at least 100k, I could rock you with some serious stuff.

At the last contest I attended, Gordon Delaney and myself were both at the meet with out Saito 72 ships. Gordon had his Saito 72 Tony and I had my Saito 72 Backfire 3. I did not compete,I was testing very long lines that day. Backfire 4 will be the "looker" now that I've got the design perfected. I learned coming up at Flushing Meadows in New York, not to make the prototypes pretty.

Windy Urtnowski has been on board with me since I came back into the hobby, most of what I have done, he's seen. My goal is get one of these ships into his hands and let him "rock and roll."

By the way, Gordon flies at high altitude and his ships are designed specifically for that. When he comes down to LA, his ships performance is staggering. Like most of, he uses the Os Max F plug in his Saito.

"Last Sunday,I had the best result all season. I won by default. I told the CD that I mix my own fuel. Everybody split. A win is a win."
"Homer J. Simpson"