TO FOAM OR NOT TO FOAM

BLACK HAWK
I am looking at introducing two new stunt models to my line of control line models. One is in the .35 to .40 engine range and the other in the .049 to .061 range and since I am not a stunt flyer I am not sure what the perfered method of wing construction is. Is a foam wing core the best way to go or ribs? Both models should be competive in their classes. I can sure use so advice here. The models were designed by Walt Musciano for Black Hawk Models.
Thank you for your help. Larry

Some like the foam, most like ribs, usually both mtods are available.

Hard to answer that one. How much are you willing to invest in them and still make a profit?? Foam is quick for the builder, ribs may be less expensive for the producer and smaller boxes also. For 1/2A I'd go with the small foam wings like Cox did in the 70's. Fast and simple for the flyer. Get them in the air, and they may stay in the hobby. For the larger .35 model, foam is nice, but the cost to manufacture them and the larger boxes etc is only something you can decide. It's your money going into the production, right?

LAST EDITED ON Jul-02-04 AT 09:57 PM (CDT)
 
Since you want an opinion...

I really like foam wings. I can construct built-up wings as well as anyone but the foam ones do have a greater likelyhood of being 100% straight.

As a manufacturer, you should be aware that many retailers don't like the fact that foam-winged planes take up lots more storage and display space than a box of balsa parts. Easily twice as much.

Of course, if you are going to sell direct, it's your choice. With all of the nice built-up kits around these days, there might be some demand for a foam stunter in your chosen size range.

Bigs

" What constitutes the dignity of a craft is that it creates a fellowship, that it binds men together and fashions for them a common language. For there is but one problem - the problem of human relations."

>Hard to answer that one. How much are you willing to invest
>in them and still make a profit?? Foam is quick for the
>builder, ribs may be less expensive for the producer and
>smaller boxes also. For 1/2A I'd go with the small foam
>wings like Cox did in the 70's. Fast and simple for the
>flyer. Get them in the air, and they may stay in the hobby.
>For the larger .35 model, foam is nice, but the cost to
>manufacture them and the larger boxes etc is only something
>you can decide. It's your money going into the production,
>right?

Ron B.
F4Fguy

All the above is true,to an extent.You don't give enough info to get an informed,specific answer.For instance,do you plan to do all parts in house,or will you "farm out" some or all parts?How many units do you plan per parts run?Realistically how good is the design and can you sell enough to make it worthwhile( 1/2A's are getting better and better all the time,it will have to go head to head with some pretty sophisticated airplanes).If you're working in house,what are your equipment capabilities?If you decide to go foam will you hotwire or mold to shape?This is by no means an exhaustive list but all these and more questions will bear on any decision.

Personally,I feel that foam wings are superior for full size (550-750 sq.in.)stunt planes,especially for average builders.They build straight and tend to stay that way,and are more rugged than built-up.These advantages don't necessarily translate to 1/2A's.Conventional foam wings can be lighter than built-up in large wings.The smaller the wing the more difficult it is to be weight competitive with traditional methods*.

*Hot wired & cored & balsa sheeted.
(Keep in mind that there are other ways to skin this particular cat).
{pun intended}

There are other ways to incorporate foam,such as folded extruded foam sheet over a minimal interior structure,to name only one.Cox did this very successfully in their ME 109 and Chipmunk stunt planes some years back.Check The Designman(Larry Renger)who was responsible for both of these.

All in all,like most things,it's a matter of what you're willing to pay,and what you can ask for it and is the difference enough to make it worthwhile.

>>Hard to answer that one. How much are you willing to invest
>>in them and still make a profit?? Foam is quick for the
>>builder, ribs may be less expensive for the producer and
>>smaller boxes also. For 1/2A I'd go with the small foam
>>wings like Cox did in the 70's. Fast and simple for the
>>flyer. Get them in the air, and they may stay in the hobby.
>>For the larger .35 model, foam is nice, but the cost to
>>manufacture them and the larger boxes etc is only something
>>you can decide. It's your money going into the production,
>>right?
>
>Ron B.
>F4Fguy
>
>All the above is true,to an extent.You don't give enough
>info to get an informed,specific answer.For instance,do you
>plan to do all parts in house,or will you "farm out" some or
>all parts?How many units do you plan per parts
>run?Realistically how good is the design and can you
>sell enough to make it worthwhile( 1/2A's are getting better
>and better all the time,it will have to go head to head with
>some pretty sophisticated airplanes).If you're working in
>house,what are your equipment capabilities?If you decide to
>go foam will you hotwire or mold to shape?This is by no
>means an exhaustive list but all these and more questions
>will bear on any decision.
>
>Personally,I feel that foam wings are superior for full size
>(550-750 sq.in.)stunt planes,especially for average
>builders.They build straight and tend to stay that way,and
>are more rugged than built-up.These advantages don't
>necessarily translate to 1/2A's.Conventional foam wings can
>be lighter than built-up in large wings.The smaller the wing
>the more difficult it is to be weight competitive with
>traditional methods*.
>
>*Hot wired & cored & balsa sheeted.
>(Keep in mind that there are other ways to skin this
>particular cat).
>{pun intended}
>
>There are other ways to incorporate foam,such as folded
>extruded foam sheet over a minimal interior structure,to
>name only one.Cox did this very successfully in their ME 109
>and Chipmunk stunt planes some years back.Check The
>Designman(Larry Renger)who was responsible for both of
>these.
>
>All in all,like most things,it's a matter of what you're
>willing to pay,and what you can ask for it and is the
>difference enough to make it worthwhile.
>
>Ron B.

BLACK HAWK
Thanks, These are all good points, of course the ribs or the foam will be out sourced. The set up and operation for one or two model kits would not be worth it, of course if sales sky rocket then things change. The design of the planes looks very good sort of an "ARIES" look to them as I remember it, is that dating me? At this point I am thinking a minimal frame with balsa sheeting, not complety sold on it yet but it may be just the thing.
Larry

Another point. The new ARF 1/2A Hyper Viper has a foam wing and seems popular.