SIG Epoxolite?

I put some Sig Epoxolite filler on a couple of places on my on going project and it didn't really harden. I must not have mixed the right ratio

It's just kind of "rubbery". Is there any way to make it hard enough to sand? Paint it with clear dope maybe? I'm not sure how to get it off either.

Ron,
Might have to take the Dremel tool, and just "hack out" the fillets. First, I might try using a little heat from a heat gun just to see if it would cure a little better. Worth a try!

True Story
Got a new batch the other day.
Mixed it and 24 hours later , it was still soft.
I noticed both tubs although marked A&B , were the same color.;
I figured they had changed it. Evidently not. Appears both tubs although marked differently,were in fact the same part.
I notifed my supplier to send me another set my cost , but check it first be fore sending
When the new supply arrived ,I noticed one tub was chocolate and one was gray (contents) in color
I mixed some to test and it performed as should
After scraping out the original mess and cleaning it out with acetone
I put in the new fillets with the usual good results I have come to expect from the epoxolite.
My suppler said he found no other bad (mis colored batches)

Practice on scraps of wood
follow directions
It really does a good job for me. Good luck!

It almost sounds like it is too old. For grins, if you mix a new batch, does it cure? I didn't think the mixtures are too critical (after all I have mixed it successfully). Isn't it nominally one part (volume) of the brown to 1 part of the gray? (It has been a couple of years since I used mine, so maybe my memory is hazy).

But I think I agree that you have to grind it out, it will probably never cure, and probably won't hold the dope or any primer either.

I've had this happen, too, a few years ago. Too much of the pinkish grey stuff will do it, or very old epoxolite. I mix slightly to the excess of the brown, and will also mix test batches if I have not used it in a while, both to test that its still good and that I have the right mix ratio.

If its still rubbery, it won't ever cure. The good news is that it is VERY easy to dremel out of the fillet. About a half hours work should eliminate the offending stuff and allow you to try it again.

>I've had this happen, too, a few years ago. Too much of the
>pinkish grey stuff will do it, or very old epoxolite. I mix
>slightly to the excess of the brown, and will also mix test
>batches if I have not used it in a while, both to test that
>its still good and that I have the right mix ratio.
>
>If its still rubbery, it won't ever cure. The good news is
>that it is VERY easy to dremel out of the fillet. About a
>half hours work should eliminate the offending stuff and
>allow you to try it again.
>
>
>Steve

Rats...

>
> Rats...

......I know the feeling. If you care about the plane at all, it needs to have the bad fillets come off and be done right. I had some early jobs with the bad fillets, and a year after crashing one of them I poked at the fillets-they were the same rubbery consistency as 24 hours after mixing, and that was after exposure to heat, sun, etc. If that stuff does not cure right away, it will never cure.

Some newer batches I have seem much more tolerant of mixing ratios, so I believe the comments that too much age can have a bad effect on the stuff. My first batch was probably on the hobby store shelf for 10 years before I bought it......

The stuff can definitely get old. If it gets old enough, it seems to get these little "rocks" in it. Although you can sometimes rejuvenate (sp?) it by a few seconds in the microwave, don't count on it.

Sometimes you just have to toss it and get some fresh. Good news is that it's really good stuff for quite a while (years). I love it, although I've heard so many people say they like Aeropoxy even better.

[photo not recovered: 3e69bb3870f12ad5.jpg]

"I went to a general store, but they wouldn't let me buy anything specific." -Steven Wright

I quit using Epoxolite a long time ago because of hassles like that.

I know that plenty of guys have had great results with it, almost forever, but it just never worked that well for me and yes, I also ran into the granulation issue but with supposedly fresh material.

Try the Aeropoxy-lite. It's a vast improvment. Also, if you buy it from a non-hobby source it's much cheaper than epoxolite.

Just be sure to follow the instructions and mix by weight.

Bigs

" What constitutes the dignity of a craft is that it creates a fellowship, that it binds men together and fashions for them a common language. For there is but one problem - the problem of human relations."

>>
>>x( Rats...
>
>......I know the feeling. If you care about the plane at
>all, it needs to have the bad fillets come off and be done
>right. I had some early jobs with the bad fillets, and a
>year after crashing one of them I poked at the fillets-they
>were the same rubbery consistency as 24 hours after mixing,
>and that was after exposure to heat, sun, etc. If that
>stuff does not cure right away, it will never cure.
>
>Some newer batches I have seem much more tolerant of mixing
>ratios, so I believe the comments that too much age can have
>a bad effect on the stuff. My first batch was probably on
>the hobby store shelf for 10 years before I bought it......

Ron B.
F4Fguy

Epoxylite was the cat's pajamas when it was introduced some 20-30 years ago(even then I added at least an equal volume of phenolic beads).Unfortunately most of what was produced then is still on shelves in hobby shops and modelers' shops across the country.Even fresh,it's difficult to use compared to other materials out there.The best,though also sensitive to mix ratio,is Aeropoxy;West systems Epoxy with their light filler is also good.Even 30 min. hobby epoxy with (A LOT) of phenolic beads added is superior to Epoxylite.The very best and lightest is BALSA.

LAST EDITED ON Jul-06-04 AT 07:48 PM (CDT)
 
Hmmm..

Whats the mixing ratio for Balsa?

How long does it take to cure?

Bigs

" What constitutes the dignity of a craft is that it creates a fellowship, that it binds men together and fashions for them a common language. For there is but one problem - the problem of human relations."

Are there no advocates for leather fillets? Wouldn't they be "slightly rubbery" forever? Are you using the Epoxolite as a structural adhesive, an aerodynamic fillet, for looks...or for all three?

Seriously, how do leather fillets work? They would seem to be super easy to install, no? Are they easy to finish? Do you have to spackle over them? Compatible with, say Rustoleum?

Are there any advocates of the Fourmost rubber(?) fillet material?

SNIP

>Seriously, how do leather fillets work? They would seem to
>be super easy to install, no? Are they easy to finish? Do
>you have to spackle over them? Compatible with, say
>Rustoleum?

I used leather fillets in the '60's on all my planes. The reason for my initial use was that I couldn't produce uniform smooth fillets using the old fillers that were sold at that time (Testor's plastic balsa, Hobbypoxy filler, etc).

The leather fillets are triangular shaped pieces that are available in various widths. I used 3/8" for most of my wing fillets and 1/4" for the stab fillets. I would notch the leather for the area that wrapped around the leading edge to improve conformances and cut a taper on the backside of the strip and the sides where it ended against the fuselage.

I would wet the fillets to make them pliable and used white glue to attach them. A very small amount of filler was needed where the cuts were made around the leading edge and the small edges on each side where the fillet material butts up to the fuselage and center planking.

I would use Hobbypoxy stuff as my filler. Apply dope to seal the surface and finish to suit. Never had a fillet bubble or pop with this method. I have used dope, acrylic lacquer, Hobbypoxy epoxy paint and Rustoleum paint with no problems.

Recently saw where someone is offer the leather fillets again. We have more choices in fillet materials and better materials now so I'm not sure I'll use leather again.... well maybe when I get a gummy filet or the paint bubbles!

I went back to leather and balsa fillets. They are both compatible with any paint, get hard and stay hard. Even the leather will get hard. I install mine with Ambroid and can do one wing in less than 5 minutes and it's done. The balsa fillets are easy, but a little more work, but worth it. No mixing, bad batches, paint lifting or bubbling.

>Hmmm..
>
>Whats the mixing ratio for Balsa?
>
>How long does it take to cure?
>
>Bigs

Ron B.
F4Fguy

It's already cured if you buy the 4-6# good stuff.The mixing ratio is 0:1.

My kid thought he knew more than the old man and put Epoxylite fillets on his Twister. I explained to him the next day that you need to mix the stuff up and then apply it. He put on a nice layer of part A and another one of part B. It only cured where the two met.

And YOU just let him do it, huh, Bill!

Speaking of Epoxolite, when you were here in Bill Melton's garage, do you remember his building bench, which had about 30 years worth of excess Epoxolite smeared on it? Gallons worth. That was quite a sight, but if you knew how Bill built typically 2 ships a month, you weren't surprised.

((I saw your picture, buddy, you look very slim and trim nowadays.))

Best regards,

[photo not recovered: 3e69bb3870f12ad5.jpg]

"PLATITUDE, n: An idea (a) that is admitted to be true by everyone, and (b) that is not true." -H.L. Mencken

Seems to me that you are one of the lucky ones whose Epoxolite didn't set up. At least you can dig it out and use some product that doesn't set up like reinforced concrete. If you are not careful with Epoxolite and don't smooth it out just right before it sets up, your best efforts with sandpaper, file, grinder, dynamite, will not budge the stuff. What you end up doing with sanding is accidently putting big gouges in the adjacent balsa, thus requiring only more filler.

What this world needs is fillet material that can be sanded.

As Floyd points out, the trick is to shape it and smooth it out before it hardens. Afterwards just scuff it up a bit, degrease it and finish as you prefer. But after the 2000 Nats, I will not consider building a plane without using Sig Epoxolite as fillet material. The wings on my 2000 Checkmate folded on my first practice flight in Muncie. Durring the rest of the flight I could envision the wing just hanging on by strips of carbon fiber and shreads of balsa. However, after I landed the plane, I walked over to it expecting the worst, only to find that the Epoxolite had held everything together. I swear there was not one crack in the external finish. I just cut the top and pipe tunnel off, glued the wing back together again, reglassed it and flew it 500+ more times. Sig Epoxolite, I recommend it to all my friends an neighbors.

I have discovered three secrets to using Epoxolite:

1) mix and apply only a small amount (say a teaspoon) at a time. You can mix up more as needed in just a few minutes.

2) shape it as needed before curing, and use a single-ended razor blade to scrape away the excess. You can use either spit or alcohol to smooth it, and to wipe off excess. (Smooth it AFTER it starts to firm up, and be gentle.) A spoon, round venturi, or similar item works well for shaping fillets, draw it slowly and smoothly over the area.

3) after it is cured, wet sand it, using either mineral spirits or Prep Sol. Be sure you sand it enough to get all the surface "gunk" off. Water is not a good wet sanding media, because it will penetrate open pores on balsa. Windex or soapy water CONTAIN water..

Dry sanding quickly clogs the paper and you'll find that it does not cut well, while the adjacent balsa or silkspan cuts readily - not what you want.

You'll find that it sands pretty well with this method. And it is extremely durable and strong. It's quite a good material, but like anything, you have to learn to use it properly.

[photo not recovered: 3e69bb3870f12ad5.jpg]

"I dislike arguments of any kind. They are always vulgar, and often convincing." -Oscar Wilde

Larry,
I was quite impressed with Bill's bench. Between the Epoxylite and JB Weld it was almost entirely plastic.
Thanks for the compliment about my weight. There is a courtyard where I work and when I use it, the opposite door works like a mirror. I got tired of seeing an old fat guy walking up to it. I joined Weight Watchers in the fall of 2002 and it takes time, but it does work. I'm down almost 57 pounds and my wife has lost 93.
Once you get into the program, it becomes pretty easy. These next 2 weeks may be tough though. Worlds and the Nats.
Bill

Hey Bill,

I *found* that weight you lost!

[photo not recovered: 3e69bb3870f12ad5.jpg]

"I have a great diet. You're allowed to eat anything you want, but you must eat it with naked fat people."

WeightWatchers works. My wife and daughter have each lost 15-20 lbs in the past 6 weeks or so, and I've lost 6 lbs in just the past week.

Speaking of weight, it IS possible to use TOO MUCH epoxolite, as my 47-oz Smoothie will attest. Using this stuff near the tail is a DEFINITE no-no (I had to put 4oz of lead in the nose to compensate!).

Tim

B. Calkins. Off subject, again. I have found that weight-watchers is not necessary. All one need do is RETIRE! The constant activity and yard work will make the pounds VANISH! So, instead of sitting behind a MacIntosh all day, the trick is to get out and clear brush and dig a garden. I have dropped nearly 20 lbs since retirement 6 years ago! And I wasn't overweight to begin with!