Glues

Do Any Of You Build,Say A Brodak Type Kit With Out Using Ca At All?

yup

Oh heck yes.

I do use CA but only for sparce applications such as, tacking in wing ribs or cap strips. When forming wing tips from balsa blocks, I'll use a drop to hold the block in place while I trim and sand.

I use white glue the most, such as Elmer's, Dave Brown, Pica. These glues are SANDABLE, CA is hard and will take a lot of careful sanding. Even if you take your time sanding CA, you still may have hard spots or raised areas.

For an example:
When you glue up decking for a wing, I'll join all sheeting with Pica white glue, green lable. The sheeting will sand flat no hard or high spots. I consider this type of glue to be one of the best white glues going. This glue applies easy, dries fast and is sandable.

A question for you guys who use Elmers White Glue:

In the mid 1950's I used Elmer's Glue-All because it was cheap and I was on a kid's budget. It was NOT sandable and any runs were just painted over and left ugly.
In the 1970's Franklin's Tite-Bond became available, which was sandable. It was soon followed by other aliphetic resin glues that were also sandable, including Elmer's Carpenter glue.
There is also an Elmer's School glue which I understand is NOT suitable for models.
I still use Elmer's Glue-All internally but have not tried to sand it.
My white glue of choice is Weldbond, but I have not tried some of the other white glues.
What has been your experience with white glues?

LAST EDITED ON Jul-09-04 AT 00:33 AM (CDT)
 
I have built planes using only Ambroid, or Duco cements. I have built planes using only AC/CA type glues. I have built planes using only Elmers white glue. The one I did try to build using musalage didn't go too well, but then I was only 6 at the time!
I usually build them using a variety of glues or epoxies, depending on the application. The main trouble with AC/CA glues is the royal pain in the neck in trying to make repairs where that stuff was used. Not always a neat repair and sometimes even the CA won't cook off and the repaired part will not stay put. I still like carpenters glue and Ambroid.

Back in the day, all I ever used was Ambroid, other than epoxy around the motor mounts, bellcrank mount, wing and tail attach points.

When I first got back into things I was enamored of the speed of CA and the stiffness of Carbon Fiber for Cap strips on the spar, but what a drill to glue anything that skinny and long with glue that sets to steel in 5 seconds.

New materials and processes have their place, but the old ones have not lost their usefulness in the meantime.

Cy

LAST EDITED ON Jul-09-04 AT 02:14 AM (CDT)
 
I counted once and came up with the conclusion that I typically use about seven different kinds of adhesives in building an airplane. Each type is used where appropriate.
Among them (not all used on every airplane)
Cya (thin)
Cya (thick)
5-minute epoxy
30-minute epoxy
2-hour epoxy
wood glue (Elmer's or Titebond or Pica)
model cement (Ambroid or Sigment)
Now and then I've resorted to other oddball glues such as ...
hot-melt glue
Polyester resin
wicking wood glue (can't remember its true name, but it comes in handy sometimes)
canopy glue (a white glue meant for the purpose)
This is not to mention epoxolite, Model Magic, JB Weld, foam-friendly cya, Locktite, etc., etc.
But, on the other hand, yes, I've built entire airplanes with nothing but Ambroid (in the old days). And I've come pretty close to building entire planes with nothing but thin cya.
--jt

This list makes sense! Every glue has a particular strength (pun intended!) Believe every builder will choose his own style of building, though.

Here's a few examples of my preferences:

- CA thin for joining planks to create wing sheetings. Perfect wood to wood joints are necessary.
- CA medium for general construction where minor gaps may exist.
- CA thick where plywood and hardwood pieces are joined to each other or to balsa. This includes doublers...but planning is imperative to ensure correct alignment of parts.
- 30 minute epoxy for assembling wing & stab to fuselage.
- 30 minute epoxy for foam wing joints (5 minute gets too hot!)
- 5 minute epoxy for sealing wire wraps in lines as well as for quick fixes in the field.
- Carpenter glue is great for attaching leading and trailing edges to foam wings.
- Testors or ambroid glues for cloth hinges.
- CA thin is also great for fiberglass cloth reinforcing.

Carpenter or water based glues tend to warp woods - especially plywood. Fast epoxies get hot and will melt styro-foam. Epoxies are heavy but are great to strengthen landing gear mounting areas and bellcrank platform mounts.

CA & epoxy sometimes don't seem to like each other. CA needs to gas off completely before using epoxy over it. Epoxy needs to cure and be cleaned thoroughly with alcohol before CA works over it.

Short answer still is - a combination of glues, properly chosen and used, is probably the best choice. Oh yes....your skin might react to certain products....making choices for you!

>Do Any Of You Build,Say A Brodak Type Kit With Out Using Ca
>At All?

Here's an interesting perspective:
http://www.mindspring.com/~cramskill/adhesivs.htm