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Death of a Smoothie

Stuka Stunt Main Forum · 30 of 30 known posts recovered

Tim McTigue · Jul 11, 2004 08:19 PM

#0 source
Well, I guess it was only a matter of time. The loop gods ate my Smoothie. It happened on my very first attempted outside loop - I didn't go high enough. Up until then, it was a good session. I've made some great progress, and I'm much more comfortable with inverted flight now. I guess I got a bit ahead of myself...

Tim

MAAC 65703

Steve Fitton · Jul 11, 2004 08:25 PM

#1 source
Ouch, I'm sorry to see that.

Sometimes its helpful to have some disposable profile jobs around for just such a learning contingency.

At least it happened over grass-I've done that over pavement more times than I can remember-but over grass, your motor should be okay.


You learned loads on this smoothie, your next construction job will be better.


Steve

Tim McTigue · Jul 11, 2004 08:41 PM

#4 source
"Sometimes its helpful to have some disposable profile jobs around for just such a learning contingency."

Well, I do still have my Ukey 40, which I can press into service without too much trouble, and I'm within 2 weeks, I think, of finishing my All-American Senior, plus I have a Phoenix 2 that just needs color to finish, and a half-finished Twister that perhaps I'll step up in an effort to get done. Then, I also have a Flite Streak that just needs an inboard wing rebuild, and an OS FP 25 to put on it, so hopefully I'll be back in the air in fairly short order, but it darn near broke my heart to lose that Smoothie. I will build another one eventually, I think, and you're right... the next one will be better!

Here's a pic of my latest progress on the AA. Sr...

Tim

MAAC 65703

fox4evr · Jul 11, 2004 08:25 PM

#2 source
Holy Bean Oil Batman !!!!
Ate isn't the word for it. Sincerely sorry for your lose. Look to have been nice airship.
Lee:'(

GLBahrman · Jul 11, 2004 08:37 PM

#3 source
So Sorry Tim,
You'll recover and have fond memories of all you learned on this Smoothie. Keep us posted on your next project. I've enjoyed seeing your Smoothie posted here. I hope to see your progress on the next build. As you already know, been there done that.

Greg L. Bahrman

KnightFlite · Jul 11, 2004 09:07 PM

#5 source
Well, its a good thing you got two of them Timbo. < Paul

Tim McTigue · Jul 11, 2004 09:48 PM

#6 source
Um... no... I only built the one...

Tim

MAAC 65703

faif2d · Jul 11, 2004 10:06 PM

#7 source
Sorry for the loss. You don't have to everything so completely you know.

I used to like painting with dope but now I can't remember why. Steve Fauble

Minnesotamodeler · Jul 11, 2004 10:25 PM

#8 source
Tim, the best way to learn outsides is from the back side of a lazy eight. You're guaranteed to be high enough then, for you're coming up from the bottom (like an inside loop backwards) rather than diving toward the ground. I don't know if you're doing lazy eights yet but if not, you should make that your next step. I found them easier than 'most any other maneuver, again because you're always turning away from the ground. Safer in my opinion than even an inside loop. And besides using it as a springboard for outside loops, it also makes it easy to learn inverted flight--just keep stretching the eight out a little more each time; pretty soon you've got a half lap or something inverted...Give the eights a shot.
--Ray

Larry Cunningham · Jul 11, 2004 11:20 PM

#9 source
LAST EDITED ON Jul-11-04 AT 11:23 PM (CDT)
 
The good ones really break like glass. I'm sorry to see that.

(You can see why Peabody suggests that a benefit of using monokote instead of silkspan is that you end up with a "handy carrying bag" for the wreckage.)

Let me ask - did you enter the outside loop inverted? It's really quite a bit easier to learn that way (IMO). I killed at least 6 ships trying to do outside loops from upright, entry at the top of the circle. The problem for me was not that I wasn't going high enough, it was that I was chickening out!

One day I had a Twister and held hard down on it, and it did the outside loop just fine. I was all excited about it, and about that time Bill Melton walked over and asked me why I was doing the outside loop THAT way? He pointed out that with the inverted entry, it was just another loop, like an inside loop. So I tried it and was amazed at how well it worked!

There is a good "trick" I'll tell you about, Tim. You might already know all about it. You remember how Ted Fancher did a bunch of 'tion ships? Like the Citation, Excitation, Imitation, First Edition, etc. Well, there's one that ANYONE can fly and practice with, I called mine Imagination. Yes, it is an imaginary airplane!

Try not to let your neighbors see you out in the yard flying the Imagination. They might call the guys in the white coats. (HINT: Also, keep your engine sounds imaginary as well, Tim!)

Laugh, but it definitely works. Rehearsh with the imaginary airplane, until you feel like you are PUSHING the ship where you want it to fly. Then next time you are on the Smoothie, your reflexes will be partially trained!

I read where there were three control groups of basketball players who physically practiced, thought about practicing, and didn't practice at all. It turned out that the group who thought about practicing did very nearly as well as the ones who actually practiced. (The ones who did nothing got their butts handed to them, of course.)

Mind over matter.

It's a shame about the Smoothie. Time to start on another one!

[photo not recovered: 3e69bb3870f12ad5.jpg]

"True enjoyment comes from activity of the mind and exercise of the body; the two are ever united." -Humboldt

Bram Anker · Jul 12, 2004 06:20 AM

#10 source
Tim,

I am sorry about the demise of your Smoothie. Especially because you made us witness of its history from the beginning and I think this plane meant a lot to you.

Allthough Smoothie will have tought you a lot building and flying it I am sure more was to be had if it had survived somewhat longer. There is a lot of good advise in this thread on how to proceed both regarding the aircraft you use for learning the pattern and about how to fly specific manouvres.

And don't be shy doing the mental exercises suggested by Larry. I have done them over and over again and am sure it helps a lot also because it is a safe way to practice 'emergencies'.

I am sure you will take these advises seriously to prevent such a thing from happening again allthough it is always good to be prepared for the inevitable.

Rgds, Bram

Tim McTigue · Jul 12, 2004 06:43 AM

#11 source
Guys,

Thanks for the commiseration. You should know that, yes, I entered the outside loop from inverted, and yes, I have been doing lazy-8's for a while now. Last year I started flying a simple pattern consisting of

1. Two non-reverse wingovers
2. Four consecutive inside loops
3. Two consecutive lazy-8's
4. Six inverted laps

I flew that pattern most of last summer, and I was getting pretty comfortable with it. I don't think I had a major crash all last season. Well, yes, I did crash my Flite Streak but that was due to catching a line on takeoff. I continued flying that pattern this spring, and once I saw how nicely the Smoothie was flying, it gave me extra confidence to try new things. I was getting really comfortable with inverted flight, so last night I decided to try a new pattern...

1. Two non-reverse wingovers
2. Three consecutive inside loops, recover inverted
3. Six inverted laps
4. Three (maybe consecutive) outside loops, recover upright

Then I had planned to do a couple of lazy-8's to round out the pattern. I was thinking of trying a true horizontal 8 soon, and maybe the reverse wingover. What happened was I simply didn't make the top of the outside loop high enough. Won't make that mistake again...(I hope).

You're right, that plane was really special to me. It was my first full-fuse, flapped stunter, and the first really involved model I've built. Actually it was also the first I'd built from a kit in many a year. Of course, I did a fair number of things wrong while building it, and it came out way too heavy, but I think it would have been a good flyer... it was well-balanced (4oz of lead in the nose), as evidenced by the fact that it liked to float when the engine quit.

So, I'll salvage the hardware and move on. The pilot figure survived, so it'll go in the next Smoothie. I don't yet know if I'll start a new one this winter, but I might. If I do, I expect I'll get it in the air next summer. As for now, this'll give me the push I need to finish building that Twister as soon as I can. Maybe I can get that in the air by the end of August.

Tim

MAAC 65703

Bram Anker · Jul 12, 2004 07:21 AM

#12 source
Tim,

One additional advise. In my experience it is always very important to stay 'ahead' of the airplane mentally. If all goes well you have time to plan your next manouver, know what your hand and arm are going to do. Once you notice that you can not keep up with your aircraft mentally it is time to stop further manouvering untill you have recollected yourself and are once more ahead of things to come. Which actually means that you will be ready to do the right thing when things go wrong iso. continue the manouver you had planned.

Happened to me just 2 weeks ago during a contest. I was so focussed on flying each individual manouver to the best of my abilities that I pancaked my aircraft inverted. Guess which manouver...., 2nd inside loop. I know I was totally surprised that the ground was already there.

The fact that you had established your own pattern you felt comfortable with and that it went wrong just when you changed it seems to indicate that this will sound familiar for you.

Sounds a bit awkward perhaps or even 'soft' but it is my experience.

Rgds, Bram

Minnesotamodeler · Jul 12, 2004 09:29 AM

#14 source
>Tim,
>
>One additional advise. In my experience it is always very
>important to stay 'ahead' of the airplane mentally. If all
>goes well you have time to plan your next manouver, know
>what your hand and arm are going to do. Once you notice that
>you can not keep up with your aircraft mentally it is time
>to stop further manouvering untill you have recollected
>yourself and are once more ahead of things to come. Which
>actually means that you will be ready to do the right thing
>when things go wrong iso. continue the manouver you had
>planned.
>
>Happened to me just 2 weeks ago during a contest. I was so
>focussed on flying each individual manouver to the best of
>my abilities that I pancaked my aircraft inverted. Guess
>which manouver...., 2nd inside loop. I know I was totally
>surprised that the ground was already there.
>
>The fact that you had established your own pattern you felt
>comfortable with and that it went wrong just when you
>changed it seems to indicate that this will sound familiar
>for you.
>
>Sounds a bit awkward perhaps or even 'soft' but it is my
>experience.
>
>Rgds, Bram

I apparently have missed something--how do you pancake inverted from an inside loop? The only inverted part is at the top. I've pancaked from inside loops plenty of times but always right side up (I prefer to call them "powered landings", thank you). I'm guessing you must have meant "outside loop".
--Ray

Bram Anker · Jul 12, 2004 10:32 AM

#15 source
You are ever so right. Outside loop is what I meant.

Rgds, Bram

Alan Hahn · Jul 12, 2004 08:58 AM

#13 source
Tim,
As one who seems to have finally gotten through the outside "Dive of Death", I really recommend learning your pattern on the Ukey (as I did). There is no good reason to risk your pride and joys to the learning experience--at least in today's ARF environment. My carnage included a Skyray 35 (with LA25), a Acrobat (or Acromaster---the Sig 15 size profile), and the UKEY 35 (with LA25) brought me the rest of the way.

Alan

SoHawaii · Jul 14, 2004 07:35 AM

#23 source
Okay, Okay! now I have to ask...How many planes would any of you recommend I should have in the ready when I start working on flying a pattern, and should I start with the beginner pattern? Sorry I had to ask.

SoH

Mathew L. Suddath
AMA 818198

Bill Little · Jul 14, 2004 10:40 AM

#24 source
I would say three. Preferably with their own engines, but if you set them all up for the same emgine then two engines will do to start out. I would have them all the same model and trim them the same.
Start out with the Beginner pattern, enter a couple contests in Beginner, and when you are comfortable move on to Intermediate and by then you will be flying the whole pattern.
We have a meet in Marietta GA in September, and one coming up in Huntersville/Charlotte NC the latter part of October, you should try to make one! You could definitely enter Beginner in either one.
Good Luck!
Bill <><


When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends.
Japanese Proverb

SoHawaii · Jul 14, 2004 10:45 AM

#25 source
Thanks Bill, I think I willtry to make the september one, I am about 4 hours from there.


SoHawaii
Ua Mau Ke Ea O Ka 'Aina I Ka Pono

Larry Cunningham · Jul 12, 2004 02:27 PM

#16 source
Tim,

Don't get discouraged. The Smoothie is worth building another, and look at what it did teach you! The next one will be even better.

One more piece of advice: DON'T put the same pilot figure into the next plane. I have learned the hard way that once a pilot has crashed a ship, it is time to move on to a new one. Otherwise, they'll do it again. (I had to retire Cookie Monster after what he did to my beautiful Shogun..)

Let the pilot fly a desk now, get a new one. They don't get a second chance with me! (And they call me superstitious.)

Best regards,

[photo not recovered: 3e69bb3870f12ad5.jpg]

"In man, the things which are not measurable are more important than those which are measurable." -Alexis Carrel

Tim McTigue · Jul 12, 2004 03:58 PM

#17 source
Don't worry... those who know me know I don't get discouraged easily. If I did, I'd have given up on this hobby years ago. And yes, I definitely will build another Smoothie - I just LOVE the way that plane looks. The next one will be lighter, straighter and better. And by the time I get it built, I'll be a better flier. Thanks for the advice on the pilot figure... I'll take it under advisement...

Tim

MAAC 65703

gtrbaby · Jul 12, 2004 07:40 PM

#18 source
Even better...Brodak is releasing it in ARF.....save you some time.

Sad to see a ship return to its natural form.....wood I mean....my condolances on your loss.

In the battle of airplane V ground, the ground is yet to lose.

Tim McTigue · Jul 12, 2004 07:53 PM

#19 source
"Even better...Brodak is releasing it in ARF.....save you some time."

Well, considering I do have the plan, and instruction book (not to mention parts list) from the original kit, I can probably save myself some money, and maybe have a plane sooner, if I just get some wood and build from the plans. And I'd also have the opportunity to do it better, and "atone" for my error in judgement. The only thing I'd have to order from Brodak, probably, is the canopy...

Tim

MAAC 65703

Tim McTigue · Jul 13, 2004 06:39 AM

Already got my next build identified#20 source
Last evening I took a look at my old Flite Streak, which I first built in 2001, and have rebuilt every year since. Anyway, last season's mishap involved catching a line on a weed on takeoff. Since then it has sat, forlorn, in a corner of my garage, unlooked-at. Probably getting jealous of the Smoothie. Anyway, when I looked at it, I was surprised at how CLEAN the damage was... it only took out the ribs. The center sheeting, LE, TE and spars are all intact, and even the silkspan on the underside is still unmolested! The only thing missing is the bellcrank mount and ribs!

So last evening I made up 8 new ribs to replace the missing ones, and this evening I'll create a new bellcrank mount, and this one will be a vertical mount attached to the upper and lower spars, so it will be bulletproof this time. With any luck, I can get this in the air in less than a week! Also, I'll be hanging an OS 25FP on the front... Cool Thing Profile, here I come!

Tim

MAAC 65703

GLBahrman · Jul 13, 2004 11:16 PM

RE: Already got my next build identified#21 source
YEEEAAAA!! Good Show, go for it!!

Greg L. Bahrman

Iskandar Taib · Jul 14, 2004 01:04 AM

RE: Already got my next build identified#22 source
For learning inverted flight and outside loops, I recommend a coroPlatter. See www.aeromaniacs.com. I made a batch of these using 3mm Coroplast, increased the diameter to 16 inches, added a "flipper" on the back, and took them down to Singapore (the kids down there wanted to buy the ones I had when they came up here). Bigmig .061, 42 foot .012 lines.

Flew one, tried to do a lazy 8 and promptly crashed it at full speed inverted at the bottom of the outside. Cleaned off the engine, tried it again, same thing. This was pretty hard ground, too. Lesson learned, added a brace for the pushrod. No problems flying it now. The only damage from the two crashes was a crease along the front part of the wing.

Kim Mortimore · Jul 14, 2004 06:46 PM

RE: Already got my next build identified#26 source

>Well, considering I do have the plan, and instruction
>book (not to mention parts list) from the original kit,

Tim,
Does the Smoothie plan include airfoil outlines for the smaller ribs beyond the straight wing section?

Thanks,

Kim Mortimore

A Jerk on Saturday and
A Nut on Sunday

Tim McTigue · Jul 14, 2004 06:55 PM

RE: Already got my next build identified#27 source
Yes, indeed it does, Kim. This truly excellent plan includes outlines (including cutouts) of ALL the parts that go into making a Smoothie. So I won't have any problem manufacturing a "kit" for myself. In fact, I happened to glance through my balsa stash last evening, and was delighted to find I actually have enough wood to begin construction, of at least the fuselage. I think I'd have to buy some 1/16" sheets to make ribs, but I could start on the fuse right now!

Tim

MAAC 65703

Steve Helmick · Jul 14, 2004 08:07 PM

RE: Already got my next build identified#28 source
Tim McT. wrote: "it was well-balanced (4oz of lead in the nose), as evidenced by the fact that it liked to float when the engine quit."

Actually, this is a sign that the CG is too far aft. Steve

Tim McTigue · Jul 14, 2004 08:11 PM

RE: Already got my next build identified#29 source
You're right, of course, Steve... my point was that WITH the four ounces of lead in the nose, it was nicely balanced, meaning I had arrived at a pretty good CG, even though the ship was GROSSLY tail-heavy as built...

Tim

MAAC 65703