Stunt News as an online journal?

Reading Mr.Dirt's posting in our latest 'hot topic' reminded me of a conversation I recently had with one of my long-distance flying buddies. He suggested that perhaps Pampa's "Stunt News" might be better published an on-line journal, rather than delivered as hardcopy, at our home addresses.

While, on the one hand, this would result in a publication that would lend itself to much more difficult bathroom reading, it would also yield substantial financial savings to the organization by eliminating pretty and postal delivery costs. while still serving the needs of the increasingly computer equipped membership.

It could also allow for continuous or at least more timely publication of submitted articles while possibly providing a forum for ongoing comments and discussion concerning the various matters that make up our beloved magazine.

Of course, those of us who enjoy consuming our stunt News in a more leisurely fashion, could simply print out the magazine and continue adding to our growing piles of hobby nostalgia!

As much as I tire of staring at my computer screen, I thought that this idea might have merit.

What do you guys think?

don't always agree with Dan, but a strictly on-line journal sucks. The pictures never look right. The columns could easily fill up with some of the back and forth we see here. A paper copy is well worth the cost.

Half the time I don't even look at the on-line stuff I get, and it is often much harder to read than a paper copy would be.

I think rhat it is a BAAAADDDD idea to go "on-line" with the Newsletter. So much so, that if that is the way they go, I will drop my membership immediately as well as my sons and grand children.
The hard copy is a deluxe copy and well worth the cost of membership. And I have a computer.

Sorry, but a BAD idea. My HP "intelligent" scanner and printer can not print anything in the proper color, or so it seems and I can not spend the time, money, nor effort in downloading a magazine I like to read while on the pot or in bed late at night. I always ask my wife, "Honey, is this reading light bothering you?' and she always mumbles and I just go on with my reading. Also I take it out to the garage for reference, something I can not do with this computer, and if the power should go off and it always does down here in a thunderstorm, I lose everything that was on line at the time. I'll gladly pay the costs per magazine/per member as my dues in PAMPA.

I enjoy the paper copy. I don't think it would work quite like you expect. One of my other hobbies is sailing and sailboat racing. I've been active in our sailing club for many years, Traditionally the club had mailed out a paper news letter with schedules, events, gosip, help for the newbies, etc., etc. A couple of years ago they decided to go electronic copy and e-mail the newsletter to the membership. It would save a lot of money in printing and postage. What we discovered was that a large percentage (greater than half) of the membership no longer read the news letter. Changes in event schedules, new events, logistical support assignments, etc. that were previously effectively communicated through the news letter were simply not getting to the membership. participation in club events declined and the number of complaints to the board increased.

I do think a searchable electronic archive would be neat. But I suspect the cost would be prohibitive...

Here's a simple solution...on the membership form, have a check box for whether or not you would like an online version instead of the hardcopy.

PAMPA could scan in the complete issue and turn it into a .pdf file that could be available online to all members. Those that would prefer the online version to a hardcopy version would no longer receive a hardcopy version in the mail.

If a member goes this route, they could still get a hardcopy by simply saving and/or printing out the .pdf file. Very simple.

Stunt News available online. Production costs could go down since fewer copies of it would need to be printed. Few printed copies would translate to lower overhead costs and lower postage cost.

Everyone would be a winner.

I think the PDF file (as a choice) is a great idea.

The best part is it wouldn't take any additional work except to upload it to the net. I am sure Tom puts everything into some Desk Top Publishing program to send to the printer all he would need to do is print it using the Adobe Acrobat print driver and presto, instant PDF file.

Those that are connected and wouldn't mind printing a hard copy would not only receive the electronic copy weeks before they normally would it would also save PAMPA the postage and printing costs.

I would sign up for the on-line copy, it's really easy to print both sides of a page with the PDF reader and you have your hard copy.

A major flaw that I see with the web is that there is difficulty generating revenue from such availability.

I believe that our PAMPA website should be available to non-PAMPA members, but that total access should be limited.

See Ya

>A major flaw that I see with the web is that there is
>difficulty generating revenue from such availability.
>

Of course, the requirement for revenue would be similarly reduced. PAMPA is not a business, and generating revenue or cash flow is not and should not be a high priority. We should charge enough to cover our costs, of course, but if the cost went down we should similarly reduce the prices. Same with membership - it's nearly irrelevant from a monetary standpoint whether we have 400 members, or 4000.

But of course, I agree that a strictly on-line magazine is not viable. I think it would be ideal to have a nice online e-zine, and I would be happy to contribute to it, but we need someone qualfied to take on the task, and we would still need SN as a paper product.

A FAR higher priority is to find someone to take over from Tom Morris. Tom has indicated his desire to retire from his post, and he has done far, far, more than his part in making SN and PAMPA successful.

Bob....
It seems to me that a major problem with putting STUNT NEWS onto a disc is that indexing would require a lot of time.....?

See Ya

>Bob....
>It seems to me that a major problem with putting STUNT NEWS
>onto a disc is that indexing would require a lot of
>time.....?

No, not really. Indexing is not that important - although it can be done in Adobe.

You can actually take a series of articles/ads/plans and combine them into one file. Then do a "print", but instead of sending it to a device that prints on paper (color printer, whatever), send it to one file. As long as it is under about 690K or so, you can fit it onto a CD with no problems. Upon receipt, pop it into your computer, fire up Adobe reader, and just page through it.

I've offered to help Tom Morris with some of the work in the next issue of SN. I would be interested to see just what the size of a completed SN edition would be if combined into one file.

V/r

No one sends print copy via PDF to a hard copy printer.

Tom uses Quark if I recall, it is similar in many ways to professional pagemaker.

It would typically go as a native Graphics file with image placeholders. It will print to a pdf so the archive disk might be possible.

From what I remember,

The only thing wrong with it is that it's not that easy to do. WHO will do it? Who will administer it? Who will keep track of who is digital, who is hardcopy, or who is both? Who will do the transcriptions of SN?

Is someone offering to do all that is necessary to implement it? (For free? Remember, no one in PAMPA gets paid..) If so, I hope they will speak up and volunteer.

Everything is quite easy for those who do not have to do it!

[photo not recovered: 3e69bb3870f12ad5.jpg]

"Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably why so few engage in it." -Henry Ford

Larry Cunninham wrote:

>I'd like to see SN available as archives on CD.. Say at the
>END of each year.
>
>The magazine is one of PAMPA's strongest features. It's not
>busted, so don't try to fix it.

Exactly so. The one issue is...who can we possibly find to follow Tom Morris and the other volunteers? Steve

>Ron B.
>F4Fguy
>
>It's only a small step from a choice to no choice.This is a
>baaaad idea whose time has not come, and(one hopes)never
>will.The only way to keep the camel out of the tent is to
>step on his nose,hard and often every time he sticks it
>inside.

I guess I'll mark you for a "no" vote, then?

I'm pretty hard-pressed to see the risk to the level you describe. I would probably prefer a searchable .PDF version (since I don't really read it front-to-back), but certainly wouldn't suggest we abandon printing.

>>Ron B.
>>F4Fguy
>>
>>It's only a small step from a choice to no choice.This is a
>>baaaad idea whose time has not come, and(one hopes)never
>>will.The only way to keep the camel out of the tent is to
>>step on his nose,hard and often every time he sticks it
>>inside.
>
> I guess I'll mark you for a "no" vote, then?
>
> I'm pretty hard-pressed to see the risk to the level you
>describe. I would probably prefer a searchable .PDF version
>(since I don't really read it front-to-back), but certainly
>wouldn't suggest we abandon printing.
>
> Brett

Brett:

Hyperbole is a tool that sometimes works very well.On the other hand I'm not so sure that the statement about choice is hyperbolic.

Bob and Brett:

The unrelenting trend in this society to do everything the easy (and cheap) way, may be something I can't reverse,but,in no way will I condone it. Bob,I've nothing against computers,they've certainly made possible a number of things which would otherwise be impossible or impossibly expensive.Unfortunately they've also made it possible to reduce almost everything in our lives,from the food we eat to the houses we live in,to the bare minimum quality which can still be sold to an unsuspecting and generally unaware public.Our language is a major victim of this assault.In reading this and other Fora,and other types of web publications one becomes quickly and painfully aware that our language is in deep trouble.Spelling especially,is poor to terrible,vocabulary is minimal,acronyms abound,and a well structured sentence is almost an anacronism.If you want confirmation of this phenomenon,browse a copy of MAN or Air Trails from the thirties or forties,when they were done by "hand",then look at MA or FM today done with "high technology",and count the errors in each.

We presently have the highest quality newsletter in the modeling community,due to the diligence of a single (and singular) individual,Tom Morris, aided by a number of generous volunteers.Certainly there are costs incurred in mailing a hard copy,but at that point the really hard work,that of compiling and editing, photo selection,layout,and coordination with other contributors,is already done.

Certainly,it's possible to print hard copy at home,but then individual cost goes through the roof,picture quality almost certainly suffers,and you're worse off than if you did nothing.I fail to see advantage in shifting to a medium in which the savings are minimal,and the potential for deterioration is great.I would rather raise the dues $20.00(less than the cost of paper and ink cartridges to print it at home) and earmark the new income plus the present newsletter budget to hire Tom Morris as publisher/editor,or if he doesn't want the job,contract it to someone else.

Ron B.
F4Fguy

>Here is the link to the Swedish magazines.
>
>http://w1.877.telia.com/~u87719545/SLIS/Tidningen/tidningen.htm
>
>Its called Lina .
>

Norvald;

Many thanks for the link. I have run across individual issues from time to time doing web searches, but never found the "home page" referencing all of the issues. Unfortunately, I do not see any issues from 2004 listed. I hope the author has not ceased publication.

Also, if you or someone happens to have the Nr2-2001 and Nr3-2001 available, I would be interested. It appears that the hyperlinks for them on the site are broken or the files have been lost.

For all who wonder what the potential for digital distribution, take a look at Lina. Anyone who still declares that this is a concept who's time has not yet arrived is rather hard to please.

V/r

...Little does she know how satisfying it is to sand a wingtip to shape while sitting in a bathtub full of bubbles (and balsa dust)...

WOW! That gives a whole new meaning to "wet sanding".

Thank you Mr. Kruger for trying to help explain the word "CHOICE".

We better be careful or this will become a banned subject

>>Certainly,it's possible to print hard copy at home,but then
>>individual cost goes through the roof,picture quality almost
>>certainly suffers,and you're worse off than if you did
>>nothing.I fail to see advantage in shifting to a medium in
>>which the savings are minimal,and the potential for
>>deterioration is great.I would rather raise the dues
>>$20.00(less than the cost of paper and ink cartridges to
>>print it at home) and earmark the new income plus the
>>present newsletter budget to hire Tom Morris as
>>publisher/editor,or if he doesn't want the job,contract it
>
>Ron;
>
>You're missing the point.
>
>I favor keeping the option of a professionally printed
>(e.g., on paper) publication that we have now. I also favor
>having a digital copy available for those who prefer that.
>The key, Ron, is choice.
>
>I now have to wonder if scribes in what is now Germany made
>comments similar to yours after they saw the first Bibles
>printed by Gutenberg.
>
>I also disagree with you on the issue of deterioration.
>Properly maintained, digital archives have an almost
>limitless lifespan. A paper copy begins deteriorating,
>albeit slowly, the moment it is printed.
>
>Choice, Ron - give PAMPA members a choice.
>
>V/r
>
>Bob Kruger

Ron B.
F4Fguy

No,Bob,with respect,you miss the point.Read my original statement,to which Brett replied.Choice in matters such as these usually degenerates quickly to no choice,if only due to the cost of maintaining two parallel systems,and invariably the one to go is the one which costs most,regardless of quality.

The scribes were not authors or editors,they were MKI printing devices.The question of hard or soft copy SN bears no relationship to them.Both copies(if printed) would be printed the same way;on computer controlled printers either at home or at a central source.Of course,if you print it at home you get no binding, nor will you get the slick covers and high quality photography thereon.

Incidentally,although it was made up of a number of city-states,baronies,and other fiefdoms it was,collectively, Germany then too.

My reference to deterioration had no relation to the life of the data.It was in reference to the quality of the content at the time of publication,and the fact that degradation is inevitable as long as we worship at the altar of expedience and ease,in preference to quality of product.I have yet to see a web publication that was equal in quality to it's hard copy version.I wouldn't go so far as to say it can't be ,but I haven't seen it.In fairness,I have to say that hard copy is a far cry from what it used to be also.

>I don't enjoy disagreeing with you either,but you also
>continue to miss or misinterpret my point.I have no problem
>with choice.If you reread what I've said,you'll see that
>what I fear is the inevitable loss of that choice.I happen
>to like hard copy,that's a given.I have no problem with
>anyone, who want's it, having a web copy,also a given.I also
>know ,as sure as little green apples ,that hard copy is more
>trouble and expense than the electronic copy,and eventually
>I won't have a choice.

Ron;

I continue to see newspapers on the stands. Every morning I pass by machines that vend everything from the Washington Post to the Wall Street Journal. All are available in either a paper format or in the digital domain. The choice is up to the reader. I believe that neither you nor I will see the end of paper printer material until long after we are actuarialy dead. Fear not. Your paper copy is all but assured lest we face an ecological disaster. At that point, our two cycle engines will have long since been banned.

>I don't think S.N. has slipped.I admire and respect what Tom
>has done for PAMPA and the stunt community.I do feel that
>going to an all electronic,non-hard copy format
>will,eventually,lead to a decline in overall quality of the
>magazine,and I firmly believe this is the next step after
>"choice".This view is based,not on S.N.,or individuals
>connected thereto,but on reading a number of web versions of
>hard copy mags and newspapers.

I am sure that many of the small, custom carriage makers felt the same way at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century when they saw automobiles coming from larger and larger factories and companies. I am sure that all of them felt that a plant could never produce a product with the level of detail and filagree that they could. Does that detract from the beauty of the Bugattis, Alphas, Ferraris that we all swoon over today? I just don't see a PAMPA quality deterioration from an advanced distribution method happening, Ron. The product that PAMPA produces is a labor of love, not a product for profit. Regardless of how it is distributed, it will always exhibit the hallmarks of attention to detail and pride that I see today.

>
>My "gripe" with the digital domain is not with the domain
>itself,but with what it represents and promotes,i.e. an
>"easy way out" so typical of today's approach to

Have you tried to produce digital products? They are not "easy." They can, however, be distributed quickly. Perhaps the cause of your angst is not clarifying production versus distribution. Digital distribution is easier. Getting the product into a format that is acceptable is work. Quality work takes time, regardless of whether it goes into paper or electrons. I know a lot of people who pride themselves on quality of workmanship, regardless of the domain of the final product. I do not expect the PAMPA membership to vary from that.

>everything.Witness,in our own little world,the ARF,the rush
>to embrace anything that will make it easier to be an
>instant expert.In a larger,more important sense,look at the

I used to look down on ARFs. After a chat will Al Rabe, I had to change my opinion. Early in his flying career Al bought one or two planes from more experienced builders/flyers. These were in every sense of the word ARFs. He used these to eliminate the variable of construction flaws that new flyers/builders have, allowing him to focus on learning the pattern. Once he had that down, he was able to focus on his building and designing. Smart guy, that Al. ARFs do not make instant experts. What they do is eliminate a series of variables that allow newer flyers to be able to master the pattern better. It also gives them a benchmark to use for future desing and production. Any new flyer who thinks they can put a Brodak 40 in an ARF Nobler and go out and fly 500+ are either exceptionally talented or a disappointed fool. ARFs have their place. Again, it is a matter of choice.

Comparing a digital distribution of PAMPA to ARFs is false logic. Call a publication "ARR" - Almost Ready to Read. A magazine arriving at your location is "ARR" - all you have to do is open it up and get to somewhere with sufficient light. A CD arriving is also "ARR". Same format as the paper copy, just you have to get it to a computer. The product is the same. There is virtually no more work on the part of the reader for the magazine than for the CD.

The difference is you gave the readers a choice of the format they want to use, and choice is good.

>use of hand held calculators in the classroom.There is
>nothing wrong with rigor,it's what teaches the ability to
>make (wise) choices.

I come from a background of rigor. As a young man, I volunteered for many things. Some of them left me physically exhausted and debilitated. That does not mean they were always wise. Regardless, I believe that we will lose nothing with a digital distribution of SN, and have nothing to fear from it, especially when a choice is available.

Rigor (and discipline) are not exclusive of the digital domain.

V/r

WOW!

I want to thank everyone who has so far contributed to a lively discussion of my buddies idea. I'm especially pleased that everyone has remained civil while expressing substantially convergent positions.

I never posted this thinking that PAMPA would actually do away with Stunt News as it stands. Bob is right, most of us, having grown up, living and working in a sea of printed word, would be unhappy having to get our special-interest publications via computer. Still, I would really love to be able to have access to the same information electronically.

I can't count the number of times I've Xeroxed an article to use at the building bench or to share with a nonmember friend. Having the magazine in an electronic archive would be a convenience that would also provide me with greater choice.I am also absolutely certain that most of us are interested in having as many choices in life as possible.

As far as nonmembers goes, I don't see what difference it makes whether someone could download and print a copy of the magazine or not! There have been several years during the life of our organization when I was out of the hobby but still kept track of what was going on by borrowing issues of Stunt News from friends. Having access to the Journal simply reminded me of how much fun model airplanes were and caused me to get back into the hobby and renew my membership when I was ready.

I think it is significant that in the advertising world, the number of newsstand sales is only part of the formula for measuring success. The agencies also attempt to count the number of people who read a publication who have NOT purchased or subscribed to it. If stunt News gets handed down three or four times, after the initial purchase, it is a successful publication indeed!

At least some Pampa members are into motorsports, right? Have you noticed that the most popular hot rod magazines also have their issues available online? Road Racing World and Motorcycle Technology magazine solves the 'current issue' problem by not releasing the current articles until the following month's magazine hits the newsstand. On the other hand, Petersen publishing, probably the most successful publisher of automotive magazines in the US, claims that making their most current content available online, has increased circulation for their printed magazines. I don't know whether this would apply a population as small as our own but it's something to look at.

Finally, I'll say one last time, I would love to have the contents of Stunt News available on disk. If nothing else, it would solve a real storage headache in our overstuffed household!

Bigs

PS: I'll probably refrained from posting in my own topic again, rather than risk being accused of beating my own horse to death!

From Bob:

You remind me of Henry Ford - "Give them any color they want, as long as its black." Fortunately Henry finally realized that he had to offer choices to his customers, but it didn't happen until he lost signifgant market share.

Choice is good, Ron.

Bob Kruger

Bob,

Interesting comment. Apply this exact thinking to some of your recent actions and/or actions you defend.