Electric C/L interest

Looking at the number of views on the E-power at NATS thread, there is apparently a large amount of interest in the prospect of clean / quiet / E-power CL flight. I wonder what it will take for this potintial market to get regocnized and tapped by a manufacturer. Several options come to mind

An ARF of quality similar to the current Top Flite or Brodak offerings, complete with motor/batterey,controller,charger. Probably can't be done for less than $300 -$400 dollars, so limited market compared to glow powwer ($200 gets you going with the right guidance).

ARF designed and flight proven with various motor/batt combos, but sold as plane only with detailed info on selecting and setting up power system.

Plug -n - play power system suitable for existing models. This appears to be a tough one, motor + batt weight exceeds = glow power so the wing loading goes up. A larger plane ( Magnum size?) could probably be better able to handle the weight, but it seems we are back to purpose desinged airframe, mod to existing designs may not be practicle - even though it would be marketable.

What do you think - will we see any of the above before the end of 2005? progress in the E-power segment of RC is amazing, who knows what is coming down the road to be captured and bent to our circular passtime.

PS -Just did a quick scan back about 6 pages, E-power at Nats has 2nd highest # of views, 3rd is Da Dirt thread, 1st is a Bradk 40 question. What kind of numbers would we see if Dan pulled the Brodak 40 off a plane, put an E-power set-up on it and then posted his views!
A little humor there- very little:P

Bill I have thought for a long time that a good electric powered plane would be great for beginners. Easy to use and quiet, especially when compared with the Cox plastics. This would allow people to fly in school yards again without being run off because of noise. The problem has always been the weight of the batteries but with the Lithiums this has been mostly solved.

>Bill I have thought for a long time that a good electric
>powered plane would be great for beginners. Easy to use and
>quiet, especially when compared with the Cox plastics. This
>would allow people to fly in school yards again without
>being run off because of noise. The problem has always been
>the weight of the batteries but with the Lithiums this has
>been mostly solved.

I think a lot of the interest is it is new and different. The planes with multiple engines, retractable landing gear, new power plants (0f any kind), new technologies--all draw a lot of attention.

The problem with electrics has certainly been the weight of the batteries and available, dependable power. There is also the problem of COST and the time wait between charges. For contests there is ample time between flights to recharge. For practice or sport flying, several sets of batteries would be needed and batteries swapped while the others are being recharged. Although they are definitely quieter, some of the European fuel powered planes were also quiet in comparison to some of ours proving that mufflers can be made quieter if needed for certain applications. However, I would see electrics as a possibility for indoor flying where a site can be made available (such as a gymnasium).

Will they become a dominant force in the future? Only time will tell. Just think, you set the timer for the length of flight desiered. Then, with no stooge and no helper holding the plane you walk out to the center, pick up the handle, and send a current through the lines to trip an electronic switch that turns the motor on. Then, off you go, fly, and land, totally unassisted. All you need for that unassisted start are an insulated belcrank (nylon, carbon fiber, phenolic, etc.) and insulated handle (such as Ted's). Special lines would not be needed as we are simply tripping a "switch" at a time when the lines are separated from one another. Hmmm, I wonder if this would garner extra "impression" points from the judges.

It seems lame, no real anxioty to the hobby. Everything works well. Part of the fun in the hobby is the statement, "There, that should fix the problem." Always knowing that that may not be the case...Does that make sense??

SoHawaii
Ua Mau Ke Ea O Ka 'Aina I Ka Pono
("The Life/Sovereinty of the Land is Perpetuated in Righteousness")

The present ARF's have a pretty small market base. They are bought mostly by people who are retreds, or active flyers who want a quck add to their stable. None of them are really suitable for raw beginners learning on their own.

Have you noticed the plethora of replacement parts for parkflyers at your LHS? I think CL needs someone to mass market a light, strong, modular plastic trainer with an electric motor, something in the 15 size range. Big enough to fly well but OK on 45 to 50 ft lines. It would be an attractive colorful airplane and would come complete with everything needed to get it in the air. Replacement parts would be available at the LHS or by mail. As your skill progressed you would be able to buy performance upgrades; larger symmetrical airfoil wings, different controls, flaps, a new fuselage, etc, etc.

Such an airplane would have a potental mass market larger than our present CL market; all 6 billion+ nonCL flyers in the world, in addition to people like me, who would buy one for use as a trainer.

All of this is available NOW at your local model shop at a reasonable cost. All you have to do is to remove your C/L blinkers and look around. Here's a clue: take a look at an Ikarus 'Shock Flyer'.

Dave, I'm missing your point. What is an Ikarus Shock Flyer? I looked for one on the Tower website with no success.

Jim, try Hobby Lobby:
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/shockflyer-super.htm
Pat MacKenzie

Ah so! Thanks for the URL. Not exactly what I had in mind but encouraging. There is a lot we can learn from the park flyer (probably not inclusive enough term) scene, should we want to grow CL.

"...at a reasonable cost." <snip> "Here's a clue: take a look at an Ikarus 'Shock Flyer'."

Okay, I looked. From the dimensions given, it seems to be equivalent to a 1/2-A plane in size, and if converted to C/L, would probably (I'm guessing) fly on similar lines (35'-40' .008?). Reasonable cost??? About $250 for everything needed to make it go, and this is assuming conversion to C/L which removes the need for radio gear. I don't think I've ever seen anything in half-A that cost that much. What would it cost to scale up to something like a "normal" F2B plane? Quite a bit more, I bet.

As far as I can see, cost is still the factor (for me, anyway) that will keep lots of people from even trying this for the time being, and for quite some time, unless prices take a distinct nose-dive on this stuff...

Tim,
What would it be worth to be able to get in a couple of flights a short walk from your house? I have a shock flyer (R/C) and I am able to get in much more stick time on it than just about anything else I have.
Also, a modern 1/2 A motor sells for $140:
http://pages.prodigy.net/gcleveland_grsmodels/_import/pages.prodigy.net/gcleveland_grsmodels/index3.html
Pat MacKenzie

"Also, a modern 1/2 A motor sells for $140..."

True, but it's also possible to get 1/2A motors for a lot less. I don't argue that the competition crowd will likely be the leaders, as they have deeper pockets (or at least are willing to spend the bux) than some of us, but as for myself, I'm just into this for however much fun I can have, and I don't have much to spend on it. Very, very occasionally, I will treat myself to something like the Walter Umland Cobra kit, but far more often I make do on a budget that wouldn't even pay for half the fuel some folks use in a season. Just indicating that on this topic, I'm likely to vote with my wallet, and I'm sure there are a LOT of others like me...

There are lots of park flyers being sold to newcomers at the prices you see. Those same people might look at a comparable CL airplane as a bargain. Hey, there are lots of people, unlike Tim and me, who are living beyound their means. Just look at the consumer debt figures. The kind of money we are talking is not big money for lots of folks.

Here is something to think about. Being a naturally thrifty individual, I have been looking real close at a motor called a Johnson 250 (also known as a J250) along with the Shockflyer. Johnson 250s are available on the surplus market for under $5 and in quantity, under $1.00. Geared 5 or 6 to 1 (and you can buy the gears for a few dollars), they will give 10+ ounces of thrust depending on the pitch speed. A typical R/C shockflyer weighs 7 or 8 ounces. A C/L version should be maybe 5, 6 tops, so you have a 2:1 thrust to weight ratio. You can buy enough sheet Depron and carbon for about $10 to make the plane. A GWS speed control is $15, the lithium pack about $21 for a Kokam 340 and a 555 chip and a few parts to make up a timer instead of the R/C gear and you have a very viable option for an aerobatic low price electric C/L "parkflyer".

I'm in the process of making a homebrew "shockflyer" using a kit as the starting point. When I get the construction down, a C/L version will be in the build pile.

Doing some more thinking, blue Fan Fold Foam available at Home Depot/Lowe's would be even more affordable. It is about 1/4" thick or so and is about $30 for a BUNCH of foam. This would make GREAT "junkyard wars" event material. A 7 cell NiMH AAA pack, a 300 GWS "D" ratio box and some FFF. Use a toggle switch to turn it on and away you go. Since you are using NiMH batteries, no speed control or shut-off would be needed. Useful, but not needed.

This is a good time for electric C/L. We just need to be open to using the technology that is available in the R/C world. And to do a LOT of experimenting. After all, I have been playing with electric R/C planes since 1973. And they were REALLY dogs back then....

later,
Mel D>

I talked to Riley Wooten (the owner of Lone Star Balsa) at the world's championships. He told me that he had been thinking about producing an electric controline airplane. It's not for certain, but at least a manufacturer is considering it.