.018 stranded cables

How many flights should a person typically get on a set of control lines made out of .018 stranded cable? I bought a 1000 foot roll of cable and have been making my own 60 ft lines. Cable ends are wire wrap not crimps. I wrap the cable with about 30 or so turns of .018 copper wire and solder it. I paint the UP line RED on both ends. I noticed last night that some of the wire strands are broken in one cable. The broken wires are coming untwisted from the cable. I have probably gotten close to 300 flights on these lines. I was wondering about coating the lines with something like polyurethane is that a bad idea? My reals are those plastic things I bought from sig. I clip the lines in one of the slots in the side of the real then roll the cables up. I clip the other end in another slot to keep it from comming unrolled.

If you treat the lines carefully, keep them clean, don't snag them on pavement, don't have any noticeable vibration in the lines, and handle the ends gently and keep them straight they should last 1000 flights easily.

the ends are the most fragile part. Anything that puts a bend on the wire where it comes out of the termination(wrapped or crimped)can cause one or more strands of the cable to fatigue and break in short order. (Line reels that don't keep the end straight with the cable, tripping on the lines or snagging them on the pavement, pushing on the line towards the termination, etc.)

I agree with Phil that, when take care of, your lines should last a long time. Keeping them clean and keeping them straight is key to longivity. If you get kinks in them, or they get dirty, sticky, gummy, it is time to replace them. Lines that stick to one another make for crummy flying. And, when a strand breaks, get rid of them or shorten them beyond the break and redo the ends.

Now, I am going to guess that the problem in the end(s) breaking as you state is because you soldered the wire. Do not use solder, epoxy, or anything else hard when you do the connection. The wire ends are going to flex, and if they flex against a hard end they will break much sooner. This is the problem with crimped wires. It is a hard termination waiting to fail. Same if you solder the ends.

When you do your next set (or redo these) just wrap the wires and twist the ends together. Do not use any solder, epoxy, etc. as stated above. We have had lines made up this way go well into a thousand flights. But we have also determined that clean lines fly better. Terminate the ends properly. Clean them periodically with alcohol (or brake cleaner) by pouring some on a paper towel and running it up and down the lines a few times. And when they get so they will not clean properly (remember, dirt sneaks in between the strands) or if they get kinked, replace them.

Yes, as Currel says, if you hve 1000 feet of wire, use it.

Leonard has the right idea. NEVER solder the wraps! I use 26 ga. copper wire in the AMA WRAP. If you take care of your lines, they should last several years. I make my own line reels of 1/4" ply plate about 12" diameter with 1/4" dowels spaced around the perimeter at a slight angle (an easy job with a drill press). A center handle and a crank, and you can reel the lines in less than 1 minute. Best of all, the large diameter reel doesn't cause any sharp bends in he cable.

If you should ge any kink in the cables, replace them!

Gary:

1. You have 1000 feet of line. That will make about 8 sets of lines.

2. You have put 300 flights on one set. Why?

Statements 1. and 2. don't mix 'n match.

What Leonard said and also, the wrapping wire needs to be much smaller than the diameter of the cable. I unstrand electrical tinned copper wire. I guess it is approximately 22-24 ga strand...soft copper. I just prefer the look of the tinned material and it will not corrode as easily as bare copper.

DO NOT SOLDER.

You can download the correct process with diagrams from the CL rules section of the AMA rules on-line from the AMA site.

Also note that you can fly up to a .40ci size engine on .015" stranded lines and be within the AMA rules. Your .018' could be used on a .60 size plane.

FWIW

I'm surprised the solder even worked. The 302 stainless we use in lines doesn't solder well.

Some Europeans do solder their wire, they use carbon steel (some of it copper-plated).

I hate to admit being this lazy, but I just retired a set of .018's this year before the Nats. I'd been using this set on and off for over 10 years and probably over 1000 flights.

If the lines pass inspection and pull tests, no reason to retire cables as long as they are not bent, kinked or walked on. Line reals and the way you attach the line to the real are probably harder on the lines than flights.

Just a question you have to ask yourself, "Do you feel lucky?" It's a calculated gamble of longevity vs. laziness..

Dave

I've been getting about two flights on a set of .018" x 60' lines lately. They seem to run into other lines and things in the air.

>I hate to admit being this lazy, but I just retired a set of
>.018's this year before the Nats. I'd been using this set on
>and off for over 10 years and probably over 1000 flights.
>
>If the lines pass inspection and pull tests, no reason to
>retire cables as long as they are not bent, kinked or walked
>on. Line reels and the way you attach the line to the reel
>are probably harder on the lines than flights.
>
>Just a question you have to ask yourself, "Do you feel
>lucky?" It's a calculated gamble of longevity vs. laziness..
>
>Dave

Matt also retired a set of .018s just before the Nats this year. Must suffer from the same "laziness" as you since they, too, had many hundreds, if not a thousand flights on them (don't recall exactly when they were put into service.) He, however, flies over grass, and finds dirt (and oil) to be the biggest menace. Although he cleans them periodically with brake cleaner, and even "runs out" the lines with a paper towel, the plane had gradually become more and more difficult to fly level accurately. The lines, even though "cleaned", had become dirty, sticky, gummy, (pick one)--enough so that new lines made a dramatic improvement. His comment, "I am not going to wait as long next time to replace the lines."

I am curious, since you fly mostly over hard surfaces, did you notice any difference in control smoothness when you replaced your lines?

>I am curious, since you fly mostly over hard surfaces, did
>you notice any difference in control smoothness when you
>replaced your lines?

No noticable change in smoothness. I did notice the new lines felt less smooth when I cleaned them. I do recommend cleaning with some sort of solvent. I use acetone every flight on solids, and about every 3-4 flights on cables.

> Although he cleans them periodically
>with brake cleaner, and even "runs out" the lines with a
>paper towel, the plane had gradually become more and more
>difficult to fly level accurately. The lines, even though
>"cleaned", had become dirty, sticky, gummy, (pick
>one)--enough so that new lines made a dramatic improvement.
>His comment, "I am not going to wait as long next time to
>replace the lines."

There's a lot of variation in what "cleaning" means, too. Squirting something on a paper towel and wiping only works for a while. I've been surpised at how much more goop you get out of stranded lines when you keep the paper towel "flooded" with solvent. Do the usual thing, but keep refreshing the solvent with a squirt every 5 feet or so so it's effectively running through a puddle of cleaner. I've done some experiments with cleaning with all available cleaners the usual way until I got no residue on the towel. Works OK. Then do it the "flood" way, and you still get an alarming amount of goop off of it for 5-6 passes. You can easily feel the difference in flight, too.

It's my opinion that a medium-speed lacquer thinner is the best thing to use for cables; acetone doesn't get as many different contaminents. SIG Airplane cleaner works pretty well, too. Acetone works better for solids since it evaporates a lot faster. Every time I used alcohol, it didn't seem to work well at all, even 99.9% isopropyl, and I can't even begin to imagine using it on solids, since the residual water left behind or sucked out of the air has got to be bad.

Cables do wear out - I noticed at the NATs this year that the airplane end of my well-used cables had a lot different look than the handle end. On closer inspection, it looked like the strands had worn flat spots, as if the individual strands were no longer round in cross-section. I couldn't measure the size difference, but it was quie obvious that it had worn.

Brett

p.s. one more thing, that you would think might be obvious, but apparently not. Use a *clean* paper towel or rag to clean the lines! A few NATs ago, I was talking to a PAMPA luminary about his hunting problems - I won't say who. Anyway, I was watching this unnamed person cleaning his lines with a rag that looked like he had cleaned out the oil pan on his Volvo wagon with it. I said "Frank, what the heck are you doing cleaning off your solid lines with that filthy rag - don't you suppose that you are leaving something behind?" I gave him a paper towel, he cleaned his lines, viola, no more hunting.

I'll throw in my two bits on cleaning. I use some commercial cleaner designed to clean stainless surfaces in production kitchens. I suspect is doesn't work any better that lacquer thinner or other solvents, but I got a gallon of the stuff on sale at Costco.

I clean my lines about every 3 or 4 flight (braided cable) and every other time I clean them, I follow it up using silicon based goop that coats the lines and makes them quite slick. I've heard varying reports on the usefulness of this, but I can say that I mostly fly on grass that is often a bit wet and have substantially reduced problems with lines sticking together when wet since I started using this. I can feel a difference even when it's not wet.

But maybe it's just me.

>I clean my lines about every 3 or 4 flight (braided cable)
>and every other time I clean them, I follow it up using
>silicon based goop that coats the lines and makes them quite
>slick. I've heard varying reports on the usefulness of this,
>but I can say that I mostly fly on grass that is often a bit
>wet and have substantially reduced problems with lines
>sticking together when wet since I started using this. I can
>feel a difference even when it's not wet.
>
>But maybe it's just me.

Does this goop attract dirt in any way? That would be my concern. If you coat the lines with something and fly over grass, it looks like dirt is about to win out. It might also add a bit of weight to the lines, as well.

Hi Guy, This Sunday in Detroit, Michigan before my second PAMPA flight I cleaned my lines with alcohol. They were thilthy! I noted to myself that during the flight the plane flew much better. Just for the heck of it I cleaned the lines again after the flight and they were very dirty again! They must have picked up dirt from the air! All I had done was to lay them down on the grass, pick them up walk to the circle fly, pick up and return to the pits! Could be some kind of magnetic attraction during the flight! Lesson learned here is to clean more frequently than before!

Phil,
Are you saying that Michigan air is dirty? Granted I fly here all the time and my lines get dirty with every flight, but I have noticed the same thing in IL, IN, OH, PA, IA...etc and even when I was flying in Korea and Canada. To keep things smooth, I generally wipe down the lines after every session and sometimes during a session if I am getting a significant number of flights in (4 or more). I use either alcohol or acetone occasionally, but generally just hit them with a clean dry paper towel.

As for Gary's original question, I have not had any general problems with 0.018" lines, but did find my first single strand break in a set of 0.015" lines that I have used for maybe 5 years (~100 flights per year). Wiping them down after every session helps to keep the PM up. The 0.015" lines were crimped and the strand was broke at the edge of the crimp probably due to an overbend or excessive bends at that point. In any case, a new set has been made and will be monitored for any problems in the future

Hard to wear out 018's without Howards method. Not to worry. Inspection of the line that is between the connectors will tell you if they are filthy, curly and not worth using again. Only 300 flights, heck you probably can just cut the ends off and re-wrap. No use throwing good money out. Don't solder, use smaller diameter wire (ie. 32 gauge) for wrapping and take care of your wires. Inspect the ends and the cables every flight, clean at least once per session cables that you demand exact control out of.

And yes, I have cables that are easily 10 years old, but I don't have a count on how many flights. I've had leadouts on my control handle break before, not the control lines. Of course NOW I'll probably snap one the next flight.

Hi Guy, This Sunday in Detroit, Michigan before my second PAMPA flight I cleaned my lines with alcohol. They were thilthy! I noted to myself that during the flight the plane flew much better. Just for the heck of it I cleaned the lines again after the flight and they were very dirty again! They must have picked up dirt from the air! All I had done was to lay them down on the grass, pick them up walk to the circle fly, pick up and return to the pits! Could be some kind of magnetic attraction during the flight! Lesson learned here is to clean more frequently than before!
Phil Spillman

Phil,

Your engine emits a cloud of exhaust smoke so thick you can see it. Every lap you drag your lines right into big wads of this visible exhaust.

As has been mentioned, cables are really hard to get super clean. Thus at the beginning of each season, April 1st to be exact, I drop all my line sets, still on individual reels, into an equal-parts mix of SIG airplane cleaner, acetone, medium lacquer thinner, and propylene oxide. After bathing in this mix for a full day I have no further problems with these lines for another year.

Dan,

Dosnt the acetone disolve the reel?

No. Not if done on April 1st.

John...here in New Jersey, where the air is spankingly clean, I use iso alcohol with some silicone added. The silicone is some mold release that a friend uses in the plastics industry.... I would imagine that I add an ounce to a pint?
Noticable non-stick......of course I generally hog-tie myself and have to trash the things before long anyhow.

See Ya