A P C props are visious

Sunday afternoon about 6 p m I got my right arm in an A P C prop and it took out a piece of flesh about 1 1/2 inches across and about 1 inch deep out of my arm.
Thankfully there were other fellows withme and one called the E M T people and while they were checking me out Cnarlie Melancon picked up my gear and then took me to his house where my wife met me and carried me to the hospital for stitches..
The doctor said that there would be a hollow spot in my arm, but there was no damage to tendons or other damage...
Guy's PLEASE be careful.......

Those babies are sharp! Having been cut by things both sharp and dull, sharp hurts less and heals quicker. Darn little comfort. Being out flying beats the heck out of being in the emergency room, so let's all be extra careful.

I absolutely cringe when I watch most people around a spinning prop. Just last week Jerry Arana stuck his hand in an APC prop rotating at a high velocity and he said it took hours to get all the blood of his new Super Clown.
PLEASE THINK ABOUT THIS
1. While choking your motor, even before you attach the battery,
make sure your pit man has a hold of the plane, I have had my Jett .50 start with no battery hooked up and thankfully Scott a good grasp on it or I could have been cut up pretty good by a nasty Bolly

2. As you attach the battery, hold on to the prop. If the piston is at or near TDC the glow plug will cause the air/fuel mixture within the cylinder to expand to the point of combustion. If unprepared for this and your hand is in the way, its off to the hospital.

3. After the motor starts, walk behind the plane and remove the battery. Check your tach and set your needle from behind the spinning prop. I SEE NO NEED FOR ANYONE TO REACH ACROSS THE PROP ARC. It only takes five seconds or so to walk behind the plane and do all of this safely behind the prop.

Think about safety at all times. And when you see someone who is doing something stupid or unsafe please point it out. Keep this in mind, a lot of our flying sites are just one injury away from being shut down. With schools and property owners, terrified of lawsuits and bloodsucking lawyers circling like vultures, we need to do every little thing we can to keep these precious sites. I will now step down from my soapbox.

If I was a prop manufacturer, I'd be disappointed to see my name in print in connection with a serious incident such as this.
After all, the brand of prop is absolutely irrelevant.
The real problem here is the careless idiot using it!
It is like saying Marl***** cigarettes gave me lung cancer.
The dangers of revolving props are well-known and safe practice warnings have been published in the modelling press for many years now. There is no excuse for ignoring them.

Lord, I sincerely hope you never hurt yourself at the flying field. I imagine it would be terribly difficult to climb back on that high horse with an injured finger. Thanks for your concern and warning though. As for the prop manufacturer, I guess they will have to swallow hard, take a deep breath and live with it. I really think it is easier to State the name of the prop the to describe it by using several sentences to do so.

David to true. However, we are human and we do stupid things. Swim with sharks, Jump out of airplanes, prove I can drink more than you, Or reach across a spinning blade. It sad when it happens, and It happens to all of us.

Scott(I only got TWO Scars)Riese........from a prop

>The real problem here is the careless idiot using it!

Well, that's a little strong, I'd say. I know a good many experienced C/L guys that have gotten chewed up just like Gil. They wern't idiots or morons. It just takes a small distraction or a moment of innattention for disaster to strike. If I had to add one thing to Larry's post, I'd say to PAY ATTENTION to what you're doing and don't be in a rush. Don't cut an eye to the other circle, get distracted by onlookers, try to carry on a conversation with your help, etc. Take your time, don't hurry or get rattled or let yourself stray from your starting ritual.
BTW, some of you may not agree, but I'm convinced that today's props, the APC's, CF 3 & 4 blades, Bollys, etc. are much more dangerous than yesterdays nylon or wood props. It's not even safe to hand-flip the newer props. It took some time to convince me, but I won't start any of my engines without a starter or chicken stick. MTC

Agree we don't need to get in to name calling here, but propeller safety is a habit we should form, practice and teach. In addition to some of the caveats posted, I sometimes see folks holding their models pointed straight up.....with the spinning prop at eye level! APC or XYZ.....that's dangerous!!!

>Agree we don't need to get in to name calling here, but
>propeller safety is a habit we should form, practice and
>teach. In addition to some of the caveats posted, I
>sometimes see folks holding their models pointed straight
>up.....with the spinning prop at eye level! APC or
>XYZ.....that's dangerous!!!

Certainly not a good idea, but not as dangerous as it looks...when a prop throws a blade, it doesn't go "out" as much as "forward". About 45 degrees in front, and close, is the most dangerous position to be in. Unfortunately, about where your face is when starting. Be thankful we have prop manufacturers that know how to keep blades together. NOw if we could just learn to keep our hands out of it...
--Ray (just one scar from a prop, one from a RatRacer wing...)

Point should be NOT to minimize ANY potential hazard!

Gil Causey!

To steal a line from an old John Wayne movie - "I thought you wuz dead!"

Remember me? I think it's been 18 years.

Herman Green

p.s. I'm really sorry about your injury. Tell Donnie and Andy "Hi" for me.

Gil:
I think that props in general are kinda non-user-friendly. We hauled a guy to the local hospital who stuck his hand through a wooden prop, and it was about as nasty as could be.

I get real leary about cf props....they seem as if designed to do damage to limbs.

Inserting people parts into any spinning prop isn't too good an idea.....one that is best avoided.

See Ya

What still surprises me is the number of guys who use plastic props of any make and don't de-flash them before using them or putting them into their flight boxes.
It only takes just a couple of wipes with a bit of wet and dry to remove the razor sharp moulding flash!
Cheers John

I am running a carbon prop on a Tower 40. I use a starter or a chicken stick. No way I am starting that prop by hand, even with a glove on. Yesterday, the engine, which usually starts instantly, did not start. I flooded it and finally pulled the plug, which was bad. I spun the engine with the starter to clear the flood and then put a new plug in. Put the clip on the plug and the engine started. I'm standing there holding the starter and looking disoriented.

My last trip to the emergency room; for no reason I reached out and stuck my left hand into a spinning prop. Fortunately, although tendons were exposed, none were cut. 11 stitches and $3000 later I hardly have a scar. I would admit to having been a stupid idiot for just a second there.

There were negative comments on another forum about the pictures of someone taching a prop from in front which were published in an article for beginners in the last Model Aviation.

LAST EDITED ON Jul-28-04 AT 10:13 PM (CDT)
 
I got my thumb in an APC prop 2 years ago. It was 103 degrees that July day about 2am the hottest part of the day. Sweat was dripping on my glasses and I could not see. I wiped my glasses clean 6 times and finally gave it up. I reached to remove the battery connector and got into the prop. Water on my glasses made things look distorted. It got me 7 times each cut was 1/4" apart. It took 39 stitches to fix the damage. Sence then I always sand the sharp edges off of my new props and I am very careful. I also will not fly if it is hot outside. The worse part was the hospital emergency room bill was $1800.00, that would buy a lot of props. And to top it off I got a seperate bill for $840.00 from the doctor. So what is the deal with that??? If the doctor works for the hospital then why is he sending me a bill too???

>I know what you mean. I got my thumb in an APC prop 2 years
>ago. It got me 7 times each cut was 1/4" apart. It took 39
>stitches to fix the damage. Sence then I always sand the
>shape edges off of my new props and I am very careful. The
>worse part was the hospital emergency room bill was
>$1800.00, that would buy a lot of props. And to top it off
>I got a seperate bill for $840.00 from the doctor. So what
>is the deal with that??? If the doctor works for the
>hospital then why is he sending me a bill too???
>
>Gary Weaver [email protected]

Your digits are worth that, and much more!

[photo not recovered: 3e69bb3870f12ad5.jpg]

"Under any conditions, anywhere, whatever you are doing, there is some ordinance under which you can be booked." -Robert D. Sprecht

Where was the complaining about APCs when you took that 3rd place in your local Club's All Comers Stunt contest last year? Or, when you won Proto Speed at that regional meet, just beating out the loudmouth at the LHS? Or, just last week when that 10-5 APC on that Foxed Streak worked just so...? And, each time, your fingers survived to tell the story.

Can't have it both ways, guys. Wonderfully efficient prop. Wonderfully efficient prop with really, really sharp edges.

And to top it off I got a seperate bill for $840.00
>from the doctor. So what is the deal with that??? If the
>doctor works for the hospital then why is he sending me a
>bill too???
>
>Gary Weaver [email protected]

Gary:
In a lot of states it is illegal for the doctor to be an employee of the hospital, Tennessee may be one of those states. Even when they can most hospitals don't want the hassles involved with billing insurance companies.

About catching your finger in the prop I just sliced mine open on a CF prop when I was trying to choke the engine to kill it. The engine burped which resulted in me pulling it back with my other hand and the end of my finger had a slice over an inch long and a section of skin the same length about 1/4 inch wide missing, thought it would never stop bleeding. Luckily no stitches were needed.

As the safety experts all say,

THERE ARE NO ACCIDENTS.

lack of training
lack of attention
hurrying
poor routine

One good tip for props is the same one they teach you for table saws. Everytime you move your hand around a prop, the first direction should be away from the prop- THEN decide where to move your precious fingers next.

I know the carbon fiber props are really great, but I won't get within an arms length of one of the things. While I have a few APC's, I don't really like using them. I'll just take wood props, and although you can get injured by them, I just don't think they are quite as dangerous. Yesterday, one of the guys at the LHS told me a story about an R/C flier that bled to death from a prop cut before he could get help! He was flying alone.

I still have a few prop scars from a 1949 Holland Wasp... The first of many -- none, thank God, truly serious...

We can be scrupulous about prop safety, but we remain human. There WILL be injuries -- experience smacks us upside the head ever' now and then, in person, or the next guy over. Let's never stop noticing this...

One thing I've always done is feel the TE of all new props I pick up. If they feel keen enough to shave with, I take that edge off! It doesn't take much. If the prop as bought was already well balanced, the same number of strokes of 360 to 600 W/Dry, dry, may be enough.

If there's a flash edge, that comes off, even if it means another quarter hour establishing good static balance.

Hey, that's the edge we press on for starting.

For the other situations, FIRST! -- don't let distractions take your focus off what you are doing.

Still, things can happen, as did with Gil. We can be thankful AND cautioned by the consequences to Gil. They could have been far worse.

Guy's I sure do appreciate the help and suggestions about the prop, and this is NOT to say that APC props were/are the cause of the problem.. They WERE not, I just got my arm too close and it is my fault.. The reason that I related this was to let us all be more safety concious about all modeling activities..
I am not an idiot, and don't like being called one, it was an accident...
If this helps someone then great..I Sure hope that I learned something from it....
Gil

Any pictures?

That should be the entire point...."don't try this at home!" Safety comes from everyone's experiences: preventing the bad ones and repeating the good ones. Thanks for sharing. No pictures needed!

> I am not an idiot, and don't like being called one, it was
>an accident...
> If this helps someone then great..I Sure hope that I
>learned something from it....
> Gil
>

Gil,
I apologise for referring to you personally as an idiot. That's a strong term and I used it simply to draw attention to the fact that you were and we are collectively 'careless' with safety.
I've been using model engines for 50 years now and in that time I've had a number of injuries from revolving props. None could be classed as 'accidents'. An accident is something outside our control, such as a brick falling off a building and injuring a person passing by.
I'm certainly sorry that you were injured and hope you suffer no permanent damage, other than the hole in your arm.
Dave Owen

LAST EDITED ON Jul-29-04 AT 10:22 PM (CDT)
 
As the safety experts all say,
THERE ARE NO ACCIDENTS.

lack of training
lack of attention
hurrying
poor routine

One good tip for props is the same one they teach you for table saws. Everytime you move your hand around a prop, the first direction should be away from the prop- THEN decide where to move your precious fingers next.

Phil C

I agree with this 100%. The vast majority of times there is an act of carelessness, not an accident, that causes bodily harm.

It is rarely the manufacturer's fault when someone gets wacked, cut, stabbed, etc., when one of their products is used...it is most always a careless person's fault.

I use APC props exclusively because they are inexpensive and provide excellent thrust. I ALWAYS clean the cast lines on the front edge and sightly dull the rear edge during the process of balancing them. Still, even with that done, they are rotating Ginsu knives and I MUST respect that or get cut. That is a simple task when the consequences are considered. I guess some don't pay very good attention to what they are doing though and then they have an 'accident'.

Eugene S. Chernosky
AMA 639635

LAST EDITED ON Jul-30-04 AT 07:19 PM (CDT)
 
>I use APC props exclusively because they are inexpensive and
>provide excellent thrust. I ALWAYS clean the cast lines on
>the front edge and sightly dull the rear edge during the
>process of balancing them. Still, even with that done, they
>are rotating Ginsu knives and I MUST respect that or get
>cut.

How much noticeable difference would it make in performance to significantly dull both edges of an APC? Obviously this is only a *very* partial solution, and one more likely to help with non-spinning props cuts, which are easy to come by with a prop as sharp as an APC. The prop performance question is also interesting, at least to me, if only on a theoretical basis.

Safe flying,
Kim Mortimore

A "safety expert" would quickly conclude that having an unguarded prop was an "unsafe condition" and being anywhere near it was an "unsafe practise".
Pat MacKenzie