Jose M. and Big Jim

Jose, it was nice hanging out with you at the WC's. Say "hi" to BJ for me.

I think that Big Jim is the most successful and prolifically copied design in modern stunt times, even though few seem to acknowledge it.

I would like to see his 4 stroke design. I would be happy if he would review my new "Alpha".

http://www.egpworld.com/ultrahobby/download/pattern%20plane%20ALPHA.PDF

It is somewhat of a departure from convention.

There also the Zone 2 which is based on a 90% PM wing. I thought about going to my own wing shape, something along the lines of Gordy's Tony but with a bigger flap and a little smaller wing.

http://www.egpworld.com/ultrahobby/download/ZONE2.pdf

There is also the current Hr. Hyde and Dr. Jekyll. The Dr. J has the wing moved forward 5/8" over the Mr. Hyde and uses a low aspect ratio stab and elevator. The Dr. J is almost complete. The Mr. Hyde continues to improve but has been suspect in many ways.

http://www.egpworld.com/ultrahobby/download/DRjandmrhyde.PDF

I agree with you wholehardedly. Jose and I used to go over Big Jim's house when I was a young teen. (yes I was a young teen at one time). A while back, I spoke to big Jim as to why he never published the Patternmaster. Supposedly, Mike Rogers was helping him with the editing but it never got completed. One of my goals in this hobby is see Big Jim get properly published and receive the credit due him for one of the most influential stunt designs ever. I was there the day he brought out the original Patternmaster, which was a very different beast than the one you see today. I feel it is even more important to see Big Jim get published now that he is having eyesight trouble.

Hey how is BIG JIM? Is he back working on ENGINES?
As for the Patteren Master YEP!

I have been working on the patternmaster story with BJ for the last year should be ready for publication by october in a major magazine. Big JIm has designed the PM-40 46 60, With other guys doing developmental work on 35 and 51 size PM Hank forbes ,Mike Rogers an me. Big Jim has also designed the LJ series 40-46-51-60 and the legendary 900. the LJ series is by far my favorite of his designs. I must not forget the Griffon 40/46 51 and 60. The first airplane I saw him fly was the pink banshee, a highly modified sig kit. This airplane had a fox 35 on missile mist fuel (poor fox) The most fun was wen he would win fly, Milton do you remember our amazement. Big Jim also designed built an flew a flapless design only one was built. Im trying to get him to allow me to build the second edition with mods as a follow up design.
The LJ series is the airplane that Windy used to get into the top five for 5 consecutive years. with this airplane you need a large van as it has a 72" span tiger 60, windy built the Mig, Black sunday, Luissiana lightning, the killer bee, Relentles an one other that I cant remmember. Bob Baron flew the LJ46 to a second and third place finish at the nats. In 1984 BOB BARON In my vew should have won the worlds with an LJ. At the last minute he swiched to the AVANTY and came in second. On BOB Barons return trip from the worlds he stopped by Flushing Meadows Park and I witnessed one of the most impressive flying performances this side of Gean schaffer. With Hank Forbes LJ35 Six consecutive flights stopping only to fuel the most accurate 4 foot bottoms and shapes to die for. You know the rest of this story on the 7th flight he folded the airplane, six memorable flights.

LAST EDITED ON Jul-30-04 AT 04:18 PM (CDT)
 
Hi!

It appears as if there are a lot of people interested in the PM-46! Especially now that many flyers are moving away from the full-size 60 ships and back towards midsize airframes!

How about some measurements for that one? Some of us have been trying to get info on that design for quite some time, without success.

I spoke to Jim some time ago, requesting information on both the LJ and PM designs in both for 35 and 46 sizes and was turned down flat.

Why all the secrecy?

THERE ARE NO SECRETS.
IM IN THE PROCESS OF PRODUCING THE ENTIRE LINE OF BIG JIM DESIGNS.
1-PM60 FOAM WING FOAM TAIL VACUMBAGGED COMPOSITE BODY TOM MORRIS CONTROLS YOU SUPPLY WOOD.
2- LJ46 FOAM WING FOAM STAB COMPOSITE FUSE TOM MORRIS CONTROLS
3- PM46 FOAM WING FOAM TAIL TPM MORRIS CONTROLS PLANS YOU SUPPLY WOOD.
PLANS ARE CURRENTLY AVAILABLE FOR THE PATTERN MASTER 60-46-51 BIG JIM HAS ASKED ME TO ALSO CHANGE THE RUDDER SHAPE TO THE ONE ON HIS PLANE.I HAVE PHOTOS OF HIS PLANE BUT CANT REDUCE TO POST, WORKING ON THIS.
THE NEXT PLANE WILL BE THE GRIFFON IN 46 51 60 THIS IS A LOW ASPECT RATION PLANE WITH A THIN AIRFOIL LARGER CORD THAN A PM. THIS AIRPLANE WAS DEVELOPED AS AN ANSWER TO FANCHER AND WALKERS PLANES. MORE TO COME
THE MODELS DESCRIBED ABOVE WILL BE AVAILABLE MID SEPTEMBER.
THANKS JOSE

>THERE ARE NO SECRETS.
>
> THANKS JOSE
Except for the technology in my Backfire 4!!

>>THERE ARE NO SECRETS<<
>Except for the technology in my Backfire 4!!

OK Milt!!!. Nows the time to step up to the plate. We all been hearing about the Backfire 4 etc, etc, etc, and the awesome Saito 72 and how it burns holes in the sky etc, etc, etc. Time for some pictures and some technical input from someone who's been a 4 stroke advocate for longer than most. Let us see it (pictures) and hear of its doings. You are the Saito 4-stroke man. If your going to walk the walk and talk the talk we need to see some action. No disrespect intended. Lets get down!!!!..Grins
P.S. might even convince me to try one???

Windy once published a plan for the BJ (60 sized LJ) I believe I still have that plan in the basement if Jose needs it.

>Hey how is BIG JIM? Is he back working on ENGINES?
>As for the Patteren Master YEP!

SO CAN SOMEONE ANSWER THE QUESTION???? IS HE OK?

Hi Scott,
AFAIK, Large James ( i understand he has lost some weight) is having difficulty with his eyesight, and is not doing engine work. This is from some of his buddies.
Bill <><

I have a Windy tape where Mike Rogers is flying his Patternmaster 46 with an ST46. I also have the tape where the late great Bob Baron is contesting for the 1997 team trials with his bright red stock Patternmaster. This is just after he won the 1996 Nats with the same plane. When I spoke to Big Jim, he told me that Bob had called him up and asked for a set of plans. Glad to see Big Jim is getting taken care of finally. I remember his wind flying. I mostly remember the sound the first Patternmaster made with the engine off going through manuevers-amazing. Big Jim's ST60 sounded like a high bypass turbine. No other engine sounded like his, either before or since. Jose, they were taking care of OUTRAGIOUS BUSINESS back then. Man, i'm telling you it was SCANDELOUS!!

THE PM46 THATS ON THE WINDY TAPE SHOULD BE A GREEN WHITE AND BLACK MODEL THE CURRENT 46PM IS A LITTLE LARGER AND IS SCALED FROM THE 60 SIZE PM. A BETTER FLYING PLANE ,650 SQUARES. THE ORIGINAL PM WAS DESINED IN 1972/3 63" SPAN 69OZ. HIGH REVING KB40 ON 35% NITRO FUEL.NOTE:BIG JIM SECOND PM HAD A 57" SPAN 24% AIRFOIL,KB49-ST40-AND ST46 I BUILT THE THIRD ONE WITH RAY MOORE THE SECOND. THE THIRD PM 40 WAS EVEN SMALLER 54" SPAN 630 SQ. ST46/GOLD CUP 40 GUESS CRASHED THAT PLANE. ( I BOUGHT IT )

Hey Brad the picture of the pattern plane was taken about 3 min. away from my house in Nederland texas cool plane it should fly great.I currently working on a plane that I plan on putting a four stroke in it Doug remends a OS 52.

>I think that Big Jim is the most successful and prolifically
>copied design in modern stunt times, even though few seem to
>acknowledge it.

You said this but you didnt elaborate as to why this is. I didnt start until 91 and knew zip about plane desgins until 95-96. Enlighten us young ones as to why you think this is the most successful and prolifically copied design.

LAST EDITED ON Jul-31-04 AT 01:48 AM (CDT)
 

Well Jose, you now have the floor.

I'm sure that we'll all be interested in this story!

LOL!!!

>I think that Big Jim is the most successful and prolifically
>copied design in modern stunt times, even though few seem to
>acknowledge it.

GZ: I was hanging out with "Sleepy" (is his real name Ken? - I can't remember) at the WCs. Sleepy grew up with Big Jim in NYC. He related some of his memories of a younger Jim. Did ya know BJ was a slot car motor rewinding Guru before he got into Stunt? Yup, the first "Big Jim Motors" were electric.

Sleepy also said Jim was inspired by Al Rabes stuff, and there are several parallels to support this:

Larger (and heavier) than typical ships

Tigre 60

Wiggle Rudder

Super fat 'foils

Equal Span Wings.

Interesting, huh?

JOSE: Which one of Jim's PMs had the Merco 61 in it? Sleepy said this was the first one. 'Zat true? I've long thought that Big Jim's story is one worth telling. The man himself is such a mystery, seeming to never leave his home turf in Queens. You're the guy to write this - I can't wait to read it. Finish it up!

Rick Campbell

HI RICK IT WAS GOOD TO SPEND SOME TIME AT THE WC. ITS TRUE BIG JIMS ORIGINAL PM HAS A MERCO 60 I TOOK PHOTOS THIS PAST WINTER. BIG JIM WAS A SLOT CAR GURU THERE WERE MONEY RACES BACK THEN AND HIS MOTORS HELD SEVERAL TRACK RECORDS ON THE EAST COAST. JIM DAMEREL WAS ONE OF HIS DRIVERS. BIG JIM PARTED COMPANY WITH ALL RABE IN THE NOSE CONSTRUCTION. AL REQUIRED MANY TIGER 60 IN ORDER TO GET THROUGH A NATS IN JIMS CASE A TIGRE WILL LAST 10 YEARS NO DISRESPECT TO AL AND HIS ACHIEVEMENTS. DIFFERENT WAYS TO SOLVE SIMILAR PROBLEMS.

Jose:

What're YOU doin' up so early? I gotta go to work and bang out some sugar-free fro- yo this morning.

Go to bed - get some beauty sleep. Lord knows ya NEED it!

IM ON MY WAY TO THE FIELD HAVE CONTEST ON SUNDAY. THATS SOME WICKED MACHINE YOU HAVE THERE. TRYING TO PRINT AND ENLARGE HOPE THATS O.K.
THE CONVERSATIONS AT THE WC WERE GREAT. I MUST TEL YOU THAT I MODIFIED A PM FOR THE SAITO 72 2 YEARS BACK WITH CARB NICE PLANE BUT IT PULLED LIKE A BEAST MY SON BORROWED THE MOTOR FOR A 60 SIZE R.C. AEROBATICS PLANE LOVED IT AND YOU KNOW R.C. DAD ITS NOT RESPONDING I DONT HAVE CONTROL DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU THE REST. I GUES IS GOOD NO AMA #S JUST JOKING IT WAS NOT PRETTY. BIB JIM HAS THE PARTS. GIVE ME A HOLLER. WORD. A LITTLE NYC FOR YOU.

I remember when Bill Rich made the move from intermediate to advanced. He built an LJ (with a ST 60 rather than 46 ), won 6 advanced contests in a row and never looked back. Later he flew the BJ and the Patternmaster in National Competition before switching in later years to Randy's designs. (He flew Big Jims designs for about 5 years after moving to Florida from the East Coast)

I still have a photo of that green and white LJ that was Bills first breakthru ship. That ship was destroyed in a practice flight when a line snapped at a contest in Philadelphia. Windy then went into his van and got out the Killer Bee (A ST 60 powered BJ which I think had won the Concours the Previous Year ) and Bill gave up appearance points and still won the contest with the borrowed BJ. After that, Bill built his own BJ and went on to Expert. A few years later he switched from LJ/BJ ships to Patternmasters.

An lot of the top east coast flyers learned a lot from Big Jim on their way up the ladder.

JUST A SMALL CLARIFICATION ON JERRIS POINTS BIG JIM DESIGNED THE J SERIES OF PLANES IN THE LATE 70'S THE SJ= SMALL JIM ITS 35 MODEL LJ= LARGE JIM THATS THE 40/46 BJ= BIG JIM ST60 DETUNED IT CAN USE A 51 MOTOR AND THE 900 THATS THE REAL 60 SIZE 900 SQ." MY RECOLECTION IS THAT THE GREEN LJ TELLESIS HAD A 46 IN IT MAY HAVE BEEN FSR.
THANKS JERRY FOR THE REMINDER. I HAVE A TAPE THAT BILL RICH SENT TO BIG JIMM 1988 FLIGHT AFTER FLYGHT OF THE BJ WITH BJST60

Hi Jerry I have pictures of most of Bill Riches planes after he moved to Florida. Bill and I flew together every week for over ten years.I only remember him having one pattermaster and he crashed it a week before the nats and had to make a new body for it.It was very heavy and flew poorly with a ST60 in it. He gave me the plane and I put a reworked KB61 in it and gave it to Bill Witson. Bill Witson and Gene Martene flew the plane at several contests The plane weighted 95+ ounces, Bill Witson 300 lbs and Martene 145 lbs.I weighted 185 at the time and it pulled to hard for me. Bill Witson was a real strong guy and flew it like it was a Ringmaster. I like Big Jim's planes but I have always thought that Bill Riche's best flying plane was the first one he built of Randy's. The plane was a high aspect ratio design called the Vigilante. Bill built three of them and one is still flying in Florida. When Bill Rich moved to Florida he was flying a small ST60 powered white and green plane. Maybe you can tell me what it is if I post a picture. I will post a bunch of Bill's planes tomorrow.
Ed

LAST EDITED ON Aug-01-04 AT 02:32 PM (CDT)
 
Attached is a picture of Bill's LJ. I think it was 1986.

He had moved from Tom Dixon prepared Fox 40's to the ST 60 at the same time that he moved from intermediate (where he flew some nice profiles) to the LJ and advanced. The whole package was so much better than I can remember dramatic improvements with a lot less practice.

I can remember Sunday morning 7am practice with Bill Rich in the middle of winter with that LJ. He'd wake the neighberhood (he flew in a schoolyard at a middle school) and I'd get up and go join him when I heard him flying. (When we first moved to Pa, my wife thought someone was running a chainsaw every Sunday morning) . Around 9am my wife would show up with hot coffee for both of us.

When the LJ crashed, he moved on to the BJ. He flew a red BJ at the NATs in 88. He built several BJs before moving to the Patternmaster and then on to Randy's designs. I was in Florida in 1990 and flew the "heavy" Patternmaster about 6 times one morning at yet another schoolyard. As I recall, it nearly took my arm off, but it did fly the pattern. I am pretty sure Bill was flying a lighter patternmaster that day and had not yet made the jump to Randy's technology.

Hi Jerry and all you others that are following this thread. Here are some pictures I just scanned of Bill Rich's, Big Jim designs. Two of these pictures I have posted before but two have never been seen untill now.The first is Bill's 46 size plane with a 60 in it. Second is the Telesis. It only lasted three flights.Third is from the 87 KOI. My plane is the one on the far left,Genesis with twin rudders. next is Boby Jones with his Miss BJ. Kneeling Gene Martene and his ten year old Stunt machine. Tom Dixon's Smoother and then Bill Rich with the ? what ever it is. Last picture is Bill with his first Randy Smith design the Vigilante.How do I remember all this I won advanced at this KOI and also the 88 and 89 KOI.I started flying expert after that.Bill and I flew together and went to contests together for all those first years he lived in Florida.We couched each other for over five years and he go better every week but I did not have the drive to excell as he did.I flew every plane Bill built when it was new and when he was done with it he gave then to me to do as I wanted with them.I gave them all away over the years and I saw one at the KOI this year that still had my repaint job on it.
Ed