Ringmaster

I've just finished a Ringmaster and I'm seeking suggestions for a suitable engine (And why the choice?).

I'm assuming you mean the old Sterling Ringmaster profile. I've been flying one for the past year and a half with an L&J Fox 35. Nice combination and true to the original Ringmaster. I've also been flying an ARF Flite Streak with an OS 20FP which also flies well. Either would be a good choice. The other obvious choice would be the OS LA25. Hard to go wrong unless you put too much weight on the airplane. By the time you add enough tail weight to balance a heavy (8 oz) engine, the airplane is too heavy to fly well.
Steve
The older I get, the better I used to fly!

Try the OS 25 FP or LA. I have a 15 FP on mine, but this R. is very light, and I did it kind of on a dare to myself. Or the FP 20, if you build fairly light. If your R is an S-1A and not the S-1, you have a head start on lightness.

How many Fox 35 (and the odd 29) R's have I seen? Tons. Good match, but a lot of vibes. Old McCoy Redhead 29 or 35 works too.

Do you have engines already, and want to select among them, or are you ready to buy one?

I think everyone has a favorite engine. I have more than one Ringmaster and I have tried several different engines on each one. At the moment I like the McCoy 35 engine because the Ringmaster that I have the McCoy engine on is tail heavy and it needs a heavy engine to make it balance at 1.250" from LE. The McCoy 35 is a very smooth running engine. Lap time is good With the McCoy 35 about 5.5 sec on 60 ft lines with a 10x6 prop. I also like the Fox 36X only because I had a Ringmaster with that engine when I was a boy in high school. The Fox 36X is also an excellent choice with a 10x5 prop or 11x5 prop. Lots of people including me like the Fox 35 with a 10x6 prop this engine is light weight. I think the best choice is New Technology like a New OS Max 25LA engine, 10x4 prop, muffler, clunk fuel tank with muffler pressure, CG at 1.250". The OS 25 starts easy, runs great, has more power than the old 35 size engines and costs only $65.00 new. Be patent and you can buy new OS 25LA engines on ebay for $40.00 each.

I recently checked all of my airplanes to see how much with tip weight I have and they are all about the same. Place a quarter on the inboard wing TIP, then add enough wing tip weight to the outboard wing to make the wing balance with the quarter, then remove the quarter from the inboard wing and you will have the correct amount of wing tip weight. This is what I have and the airplanes all fly great.
I have one Ringmaster with an offset fuselage and it has no wing tip weight.

>(snip) The McCoy 35 is a very smooth running engine. Lap
>time is good With the McCoy 35 about 5.5 sec on 60 ft lines
>with a 10x6 prop. (snip)
>
>Gary Weaver [email protected]

Ooh, that is slow! Are you sure about those lap times? With a 10 x 6 prop! You would have to be running the engine slobbery rich and it would be falling out of the sky. Typical lap times with 60 foot lines should be around 4.7--maybe even a bit faster with that engine.

>Ooh, that is slow! Are you sure about those lap times?
>With a 10 x 6 prop! You would have to be running the engine
>slobbery rich and it would be falling out of the sky.
>Typical lap times with 60 foot lines should be around
>4.7--maybe even a bit faster with that engine.

When I checked the speed on that airplane I did not have a watch. I was counting, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, trying to count slow about 1 second at a time so the 5.5 sec is probably not 100% accurate. You might be right about the 4.7 sec. thats about 60 mph. I'm not off by much .8 tens of a second. 5.5 sec. is about 51 mph....your right no way it can be flying that slow. I need to buy one of those tiny digital watches and mount it on the top end of my control line handle. Its hard to get an accurate time when timing only 1 lap anyway. When I fly combat with my son we use a wrist watch and time 5 laps then divide the total time by 5. The speed for the combat airplane comes out to 74.34 mph with an OS Max 25LA and 8x6 prop, usually the 3rd flight I have the needle adjusted in the correct place.

Get a cheap stop watch from K-mart and use that. They have a strap that you can tie to a belt loop so after timing you can drop it by your side where you can pick it up anytime to watch. Counting 1 Mississippi is not even close to accurate. What if this man had used your word verbatim? Ok, anyone that was silly enough to try and pull up for a wingover with a ringmaster doing 5.5 laps should better get a catchers mit.

I have an original with a McCoy .35 redhead. Flies great.

Fastest Ringmaster I ever saw was at Chanute AFB in 1965. Captain(Reid?) Simpson flew one that had an ignition 60, which, if I remember might have been a Super Cyclone. He flew a pretty smooth patern with it, to. When I was at Wheelus AFB, we had some fun with them. BX got in a shipment of 6. We managed to put together at least 12 complete planes from the original kits and from parts/pieces after the sand dunes reached up and smacked us down. Saw them fly with fox, K&B, Veco, Merco .19s to .36s. Funniest part of that, I think they flew as well and as fast with the Fox 19 as they did with the Fox 35.

LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-04 AT 07:02 PM (CDT)
 
Thanks to all who responded and offered excellent advice. I am going to try the OS .25 LA-S engine with a 10-4 propeller. My Ringmaster (Painted) weighs 19.75 ounces without any accessories (Tank, wheels or engine) installed. Hopefully my Ringmaster is not on the heavy side. I did add 1.5 ounces to the tail to offset an 8.5 ounce engine set-up as advised by an article that I read concerning nose heavy Ringmasters. The OS .25 LA engine is advertised to weigh 8.8 ounces with the muffler installed, thus my choice. Thanks again.

Occasionally, you would see R's flown with square intake Foxes, like 35Xs, 36Xs, etc. Very fast patterns, if attempted.

Hey Currell

I'm the guy you swapped that Brodak Buster for that old Johnson .32 a couple of years back. How've you been ?

Real good, Dave, and thanks for asking. I have a lot of fun running the Johnsons. I have had the best luck with the S (.33) and the Large Case Sport Special.

>Thanks to all who responded and offered excellent advice. I
>am going to try the OS .25 LA-S engine with a 10-4
>propeller. My Ringmaster (Painted) weighs 19.75 ounces
>without any accessories (Tank, wheels or engine) installed.
>Hopefully my Ringmaster is not on the heavy side. I did add
>1.5 ounces to the tail to offset an 8.5 ounce engine set-up
>as advised by an article that I read concerning nose heavy
>Ringmasters. The OS .25 LA engine is advertised to weigh 8.8
>ounces with the muffler installed, thus my choice. Thanks
>again.

Better get some 10-3's and some 9-4's while you are at it. And long lines. You're headed towards some pretty fast flying.

The most important thing, by far, is to make sure the controls are slow, like +- 20 degrees with full wrist motion. Any more, and you will stall the airplane.

LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-04 AT 10:48 PM (CDT)
 
>Thanks to all who responded and offered excellent advice. I
>am going to try the OS .25 LA-S engine with a 10-4
>propeller. My Ringmaster (Painted) weighs 19.75 ounces
>without any accessories (Tank, wheels or engine) installed.
>Hopefully my Ringmaster is not on the heavy side. I did add
>1.5 ounces to the tail to offset an 8.5 ounce engine set-up
>as advised by an article that I read concerning nose heavy
>Ringmasters. The OS .25 LA engine is advertised to weigh 8.8
>ounces with the muffler installed, thus my choice. Thanks
>again.

This is what my new engine weights probably all the engines are very close to the same weight.

OS Max 25LA 6.615 oz.
Muffler 2.205 oz.

There are several different kits I built one of the new kits here is a pic of the box. My Ringmasters are all tail heavy. Not sure if tail heavy has something to do with the kit or the way that I built it. I build one airplane from the kit all the other airplanes are scratch built. The plans call for the engine to be mounted all the way back in the cut out place in the fuselage. I have moved the engines all forward out to the tip of the fuselage and use plastic props for extra weight.

Other weights.

Fox 35 6.23 oz.

Fox 36x 7.805 oz.

McCoy 35 7.175 oz.

Plastic master air screw prop .808 oz.

Wood prop .420 oz.

I hope it looks better than this!

: P

All of my airplanes are RED. I got a good deal on several rolls of Red monocote on ebay. I think my next airplane will be something other than Red.

Gary

I recently finished one of the L'il stuntin' Ringmaster .19's. which is now produced by Estes. Enya .19V peowered with a Du Bro tongue type muffler and an old Perfect 2 oz. wedge tank. Wing covered and trimmed in Monocote with dope finish elsewhere. I didn't weigh the airplane but mine came out NOSE heavy. Go figure. Gonna turn my 8 year old loose with it.

DAVE

I run a Fox Combat Special MK 6 on mine.

My S1 has a Brodak Fox .35 (hemi head, stuffer backplate). Other mods include adjustable tip weight and leadouts. Construction is standard.
It appears that the old thin airfoils such as the Ringmaster need a bit of speed to get them to perform, compared to more modern (thicker) airfoils. I guess every plane has a "sweet spot". Your thoughts?
To those who have built both the S1 and the S1A, what are the differences besides the plastic canopy and sheeted LE?
From previous comments, I get the impression that Estes is still making CL kits...true?

George:

Your assumption of Estes making the kits is true. Some observations: The wood quality is still poor. Very raggedy cutouts and such. The one I built was a Stuntin' .19 ( see post #14). I believe RSM makes a full size version. Although I've never built an R from RSM, I have built several other airframes from them. Kits are all laser cut and are of superior quality to the stuff Estes markets.

I don't think that Estes is kitting any of the Ringmasters anymore... You can find them on eBay once in a blue moon, or try placing an ad here on the forum and you might find one. The Estes kits are not OTS legal...

I have built the Estes RM jr. and it flys great with a Fuji 15 (it is a little nose heavy) and my 9 year old has mastered basic flight with it. I currently have a Sterling S-1 that I flew two times with a MAX-S .30. (total weight 26 oz) It balanced good but the .30 seemed to be a bit underpowered and I just re-drilled the mounts for a Fox .35 and will try that next.

I also am building a RSM OTS Ringmaster... laser cut, high quality, a real pleasure to work with, and for the cost I will never mess with scratch building or using a vintage Sterling kit. I will put a L&J Fox .35 on that when it is finished.

Chicken hopper uniflow GRW tanks on the full size RM's

>George:
>
>Your assumption of Estes making the kits is true. Some
>observations: The wood quality is still poor. Very raggedy
>cutouts and such. The one I built was a Stuntin' .19 ( see
>post #14). I believe RSM makes a full size version. Although
>I've never built an R from RSM, I have built several other
>airframes from them. Kits are all laser cut and are of
>superior quality to the stuff Estes markets.
>
>DAVE

Estes is no longer making the Ringmaster kits. I talked to Rocketman on ebay he had been selling them and I bought one of his kits. He said that he had a quantity of kits 50 maybe 75 he really was not sure how many but they are all sold and he can not get any more. I called Estes and was told they no longer make the Ringmaster kits and have no plans to make anymore. Next I talked to Jamison about making me razor dies to cut out Ringmaster kits myself. Jamison quoted me a price, Razor dies are $150.00 each to cut 2 ribs at a time and are good for about 200 cuts. 5 dies are needed to cut all the ribs. Dies for the stab, fin, elevator, wing tip, another $600.00. Dies to cut the fuselage is another story, maybe 50 cuts, maybe 100 cuts total, maybe $500.00. Dies to cut the plywood double $150.00 no guarantee how many it will cut. If the kits sell for $40.00 each it would be hard to break even on the sale of 200 Ringmaster kits. Its no wonder Estes has no plans to make more Ringmaster kits.

Eric Rule (RSM Models) is making the S-1 OTS legal Ringmaster kit.

Lots of folks (including our host) sell Ringmaster plans. Leonard's is the Pat Johnston CAD drawn plans with a few clever tips for increasing performance.

> To those who have built both the S1 and the S1A, what are
>the differences besides the plastic canopy and sheeted LE?

I've built both the Sterling S-1 and S-1A kits. Fuselage is the same, wing is the same dimensions and airfoil but S-1A is a D-tube rather than the large LE design of the S-1.

The S-1A builds significantly lighter and is a better performer but you still can't use it in OTS (supposedly).

Actually, I have seen Estes Ringmaster kits with decent quality. What I don't like are the plastic wing tips, but they are easily replaced.

Shortly after Estes had acquired the Ringmaster I got both the S1 and the Ringmaster Jr.(S5?). The Ringmaster had extra ribs, both plywood and nylon control horn, both cloth and nylon hinges, and a few other extras. I think it had both S1 and some S1-A parts. I used the plywood horn, cloth hinges, wood canopy, etc. and made it totally an S1 (except adjustable tip weight and adjustable leadouts - both acceptable for OTS).
The Ringmaster Jr. was the sheeted wing one. I think Sterling just redesigned the Jr. and stopped producing the older design that looked like a small S1. Instructions show both wing halves with a separation between them. If I built another, I would include the separation space to increase the span by a couple of inches. There have been various discussions about power for the Jr. because the plans show and describe a Fox BB .25 in it (heaven knows why!). I have an .09 in mine.

I actually left my plastic wingtips off. I thought it looked better with the clipped wing look. The 2 piece fuselage was a real gem too.

> It appears that the old thin airfoils such as the
>Ringmaster need a bit of speed to get them to perform,
>compared to more modern (thicker) airfoils. I guess every
>plane has a "sweet spot". Your thoughts?
> To those who have built both the S1 and the S1A, what are
>the differences besides the plastic canopy and sheeted LE?
> From previous comments, I get the impression that Estes is
>still making CL kits...true?
>
> George: I don't know if I can agree with this. My 22 ounce, OS 15FP powered R stays in the air at slow lap speeds, and performs capably, at least to my standards.

Sure, if one builds a quasi Lead Sled R, yeah, you need some speed.