UHP Bear kit

LAST EDITED ON May-15-05 AT 04:06 PM (CST)
 
I won a Ultra Hobbies "Bear" kit off of E-bay, nice kit for the money, a friend's wife bought it from me for a Christmas present for her husband. I agreed to let her have the kit because I owed my friend a favor. Thank you, John Lindberg.

LAST EDITED ON May-13-05 AT 04:44 PM (CST)
 
I don't recall ever building a kit that had the cap stips cut.

Which kits have you built that have the cap strips cut?

>I don't recall ever building a kit that had the cap stips
>cut.
>
>Which kits have you built that have the cap strips cut?

Actually, every kit I ever built which had capstripped ribs. Smoothie, Nobler, Ruffy, Skyklark, TF Tutor, etc. had the strips provided.

I don't think John implied "cut to length", just pre-sliced 1/16" x 1/4" strips of whatever length.

>>I don't recall ever building a kit that had the cap stips
>>cut.
>>
>>Which kits have you built that have the cap strips cut?
>
>Actually, every kit I ever built which had capstripped ribs.
>Smoothie, Nobler, Ruffy, Skyklark, TF Tutor, etc. had the
>strips provided.
>
>I don't think John implied "cut to length", just pre-sliced
>1/16" x 1/4" strips of whatever length.
Tom morris's kits have the cap strips cut to length, other's, such as Brodaks, have long strips, say 30 inches in length, that you cut yourselves.

Let me get this straight.

The cap strips and the blocks are what have you saying the kit is less than stellar?

The laser cutting and the controls and the plans and the rest are good right?

But having to cut your own cap strip makes it not worth it?

I just want to make sure I know exactly what you are saying.

Please be very specific when making a review. Otherwise we have to decipher what you are saying.

>Let me get this straight.
>
>The cap strips and the blocks are what have you saying the
>kit is less than stellar?
>
>The laser cutting and the controls and the plans and the
>rest are good right?
>
>But having to cut your own cap strip makes it not worth it?
>
>I just want to make sure I know exactly what you are saying.
>
>Please be very specific when making a review. Otherwise we
>have to decipher what you are saying.
Have you ever seen a Tom Morris kit? Most, if not all, pale in comparison to Tom's, I guess that's why he has a waiting list over a year long.I thought I was pretty clear, the top and bottom blocks are too heavy, lighter wood is easier to carve besides the fact they make a better plane. The lazer cutting was alot better than previous examples I have seen.The sheet wood supplied for the cap strips seemed strange considering the price of the kit.There is a note on the plans to make the plane light for top performance, hard to do with those blocks. Carving the blocks is a major part of the construction, light wood would make it alot easier.

Just to diffuse the situation a bit, I think I need to draw up a guide for people making reviews. It would be nice if we would say, "These are the good qualities." "Here was something (or a few things) I found lacking." "Overall I would rate it a (pick a number) on a scale of 1 to 10 for price and value." Let's make our reviews worth something.

On most every review, after talking about the good qualities of the product, someone will find something that they expected to be different. There is nothing wrong with pointing these out. That is the purpose of a review. In this case the blocks on this particular example were heavier than expected (easy to correct) and there was no strip wood for cap strips (again, not a big deficiency). I might add, however, that most strip wood which you would buy from the suppliers is made of harder balsa. If we want light cap strips we will normally need to strip it ourselves from a lighter sheet of wood. In that case, the quality may be there in the kit by providing sheet wood for this purpose rather than the heavier, over-the-counter strip wood that would be available to the kit manufacturer.

I would not rate these perceived deficiencies anything to worry about or to keep someone from purchasing an otherwise well-done kit of an excellent design. Just remember that Bob Gieseke, who designed the plane, builds light, and the size of the control surfaces (flaps in particular) are sized with this in mind.

Hi Leonard,
I think the most "standardized" practice is to list "pros/cons".
Bill <><

Getting good at CLPA means seeing the empty bottom of a LOT of fuel jugs.

Good luck at standardizing reviews of kits. None of the commercially-produced magazines have ever tackled this one successfully. Mostly they miss by miles.

It comes down, as it always does, to someone's impressions of the product and the credibility of that person.

To illustrate, imagine a review of something really simple, such as LustreKote paint. Neither John Miller nor I are slouches, we both like this paint. Bob Reeves will nearly take your head off over one problem he (evidently) had with one can of the stuff.

LAST EDITED ON May-14-05 AT 01:16 PM (CST)
 
> Bob Reeves will nearly
>take your head off over one problem he (evidently) had with
>one can of the stuff.

Hey, if it didn't work, it didn't work, and if it messed up something important, he has every right to both be mad about it and tell people about it. A review is just one person's opinion, they don't all have to be the same.

By the way, I used Lusterkote on some wheel spats, and didn't like it. I did repaint the inside of my medicine cabinet with it, and it was OK for that.

>> Bob Reeves will nearly
>>take your head off over one problem he (evidently) had with
>>one can of the stuff.
>
>
>Hey, if it didn't work, it didn't work, and if it messed up
>something important, he has every right to both be mad about
>it and tell people about it. A review is just one person's
>opinion, they don't all have to be the same.
>
> By the way, I used Lusterkote on some wheel spats, and
>didn't like it. I did repaint the inside of my medicine
>cabinet with it, and it was OK for that.
>
> Brett

See what I mean? Now we have four different opinions on a simple product, that assuming John and I disagree on a couple points, and as he and I don't agree on anything other than wimmen, my point is valid.

I do not slice the cap strips nor the spars or leading and trailing edges for two reasons.
1. A single solid piece of wood is more likely to resist
warping while the kit sits on the shelf.

2. It is cheaper to supply a single piece of wood to be cut by
the builder than to buy several small pieces of strip wood.
We are a VERY small outfit, so any money we can save is
significant. We do not have the buying power of a Sig or
Brodak.

I have stated this to many people who have bought our kits, and they all understood. I have not had anybody want to return a kit over this matter. But, if someone did want to, I would gladly do so for them.

Steve Moon

I no longer have the kit, I sold it to a friend, I will let him know about your guarantee. I just expected more, I guess.I hope you can find some joy out of this pastime, it is difficult at times. Later, John from Va.

Carving the nose, top and or bottom blocks is a major part of the time used in constuction. However, I have found that eventually really soft blocks get those darn dings, no matter how tender you treat your model. I prefer firm balsa. Hard balsa does not repeat not always relate to the actual weight. Balsa is a hard wood, not a soft wood. The outer part of the log we use is made light by kiln drying. By carefully carving out the more firm blocks, they get very light, retain the outer shell firmness, are more dense and use less dope and or filler, so in the end may actually be lighter than a soft block. Sometimes a soft block is too eay to hollow and I end up going through and have to make repairs, this adds weight. Steve Moon knows this and that's why he uses firmer, albeit slightly heavier, blocks. I have the same kit, and I don't consider those blocks heavy, especially considering how they will look after all is said and done. When comparing these really small kit manufacturers, remmember they are mostly a "hobby gone bad", a labor of love, and very cost intensive due to the extremely low volumn they deal in. I know four of these gents and one that got out of the business a few years ago. I also know two guys that tried this in Salt Lake City in the 70's. Everything looked good until they went to buy the boxes. The just broke even. That ended that enterprise, to our loss. So it goes. Wear their shoes one week. I dare you.

>Carving the nose, top and or bottom blocks is a major part
>of the time used in constuction. However, I have found that
>eventually really soft blocks get those darn dings, no
>matter how tender you treat your model. I prefer firm
>balsa. Hard balsa does not repeat not always relate to the
>actual weight. Balsa is a hard wood, not a soft wood. The
>outer part of the log we use is made light by kiln drying.
>By carefully carving out the more firm blocks, they get very
>light, retain the outer shell firmness, are more dense and
>use less dope and or filler, so in the end may actually be
>lighter than a soft block. Sometimes a soft block is too
>eay to hollow and I end up going through and have to make
>repairs, this adds weight. Steve Moon knows this and that's
>why he uses firmer, albeit slightly heavier, blocks. I have
>the same kit, and I don't consider those blocks heavy,
>especially considering how they will look after all is said
>and done. When comparing these really small kit
>manufacturers, remmember they are mostly a "hobby gone bad",
>a labor of love, and very cost intensive due to the
>extremely low volumn they deal in. I know four of these
>gents and one that got out of the business a few years ago.
>I also know two guys that tried this in Salt Lake City in
>the 70's. Everything looked good until they went to buy the
>boxes. The just broke even. That ended that enterprise, to
>our loss. So it goes. Wear their shoes one week. I dare
>you.
Carbon fiber vail over soft wood will toughen up things. A friend of mine did a 6 foot long fuse (wood) with 3/4 ounce cloth and thin CA, really hardened up the wood. I have a really nice pair of shoes, they are made by SAS (San Antonio Shoes), just love them. You will have to talk to them if yoy need a pair, maybe they sell them on E-bay.

I also have a Bear kit, which on a 1-10 I would rate a 9, the blocks
are 6lb stock which I am going to hollow anyway.I won't use the cowl
block, because thats not how I build cowls.I feel the kit is a good value. I also have a Gieski Nobler, which I would rate a 9+, mainly
because of the Morris control system. This kit is also a good value
for the price.

LAST EDITED ON May-14-05 AT 06:39 PM (CST)
 
Let me try and explain it this way: It may seem rediculous that some would pay such close attention to something as trivial as cap-strips, however, there is a reason. I have arthritus in my left hip and cannot stand in one place for more than 10 or 15 minutes or my back will go out, causing enough pain to halt activities for 3 or 4 days, maybe longer. I can no longer sit and build because of the same reason, along with scar tissue in the lower back. So, anything that will speed up the building process is paid attention to. I would have to say I'm comparing all kits to Tom Morris's, nothing out there like it. The only blocks in the kit, more than likely, are for the cowl and the area of the top block over the engine compartment. The cowl block is made up of multiple, hand cut pieces that conform somewhat to the finished shape of the cowl. Very easy to shape. The fuse top blocks and bottom blocks are pre-formed shells, or built up turtledeck structures. The cap strips are already cut to uniform length, and placed in a individual bag, along with the pre-cut stab ribs. No wonder Tom has a waiting list over a year long. Tom custom cuts kits, so they vary in construction techniques. Later, John from Va.

John,

If you are having troubles standing for long periods of time look into tools as your helper.

I have been using a balsa stripper for years and it cuts down work time by about 90% when it comes to cutting lengths of balsa up to a 3/8" thick and 15/16" wide. Stripping stuff with a long straight edge bites it comparitively. I scratch build about 99% of the time. Finding ways to cut down on part making time is something I always look for.

Also a planer. A razor plane is a must when truing up edges and will cut down on time again 90% over sanding the edges down.

You probably already knew all this but if you didnt try it.

Hope it helps.

>John,
>
>If you are having troubles standing for long periods of time
>look into tools as your helper.
>
>I have been using a balsa stripper for years and it cuts
>down work time by about 90% when it comes to cutting lengths
>of balsa up to a 3/8" thick and 15/16" wide. Stripping
>stuff with a long straight edge bites it comparitively. I
>scratch build about 99% of the time. Finding ways to cut
>down on part making time is something I always look for.
>
>Also a planer. A razor plane is a must when truing up edges
>and will cut down on time again 90% over sanding the edges
>down.
>
>You probably already knew all this but if you didnt try it.
>
>Hope it helps.
I just found my balsa stripper while looking for something else, give it a try soon. I have used a metal straight edge, seems like forever, hard to keep the blade vertical for the length of the wood. I had real good results with a really soft piece of wood I got in a Excalibur kit (front nose doubler). The wood was so soft you would dent it just holding it while you sanded it. I was in a hurry to get it done, so I tried this:I had some .5 ounce C/F veil, it was winter so I wanted to do it indoors, I applied the veil with water-thinned Elmers white glue, a couple of coats, then I took Brodaks white primer, and put a couple of brushed coats on unthinned. The .5 ounce veil needs alot of filling, it worked fine. CA and light glass cloth would work good, also for a very hard surface, which the plane now has. Really light wood is a delight to work with, it came in real handy on some rubber powered free flights I built back in the 80's. I built a P-30 and while test flying it, it went over a line of trees into a cow pasture, by the time I got there, a cow was eating the plane!

John,

I'm glad you found your stripper - it will make your modeling life easier.

I have now developed arthritis in my hands, so I can no longer hold a straightedge tight enough for stripping. The Master stripper is the way to go. Making your own capstrips out of 4 lb. wood is heavenly.

I think the harder balsa blocks are a good idea. I recommend a Dremel tool with a Robart grinding tip. I have been able to whale away at these things and can halve the weight by the time I'm done. I don't need to add 3/4 ounce glass afterward. CF veil is a great product, but it's also an expensive addition.

As for UHP, I have enjoyed tremendous service and support from Steve and John. They stand behind their products very well.

I sold my Bear kit, but after seeing Doug's 46 version, I now regret that decision. I think Doug had a brilliant idea and I hope it flies as good as it looks.

My two cents,

Ron King

"Excellence is born of preparation, dedication, focus, and tenacity.
Compromise on any of these and you become average."

Dino, I hope you never build one of the Brodak or Sig kits. --DOC Holliday

LAST EDITED ON May-20-05 AT 04:09 PM (CST)
 
Nice kit I wish I had one .

>Dino, I hope you never build one of the Brodak or Sig kits.
>--DOC Holliday
I have built a half dozen Sig and Brodak kits, why do you say that? They were all right for the money, I suppose.

I have built about a dozen Brodak kits for me and other people. One kit would have fantastic wood and the other kit everytime I touched a rib it would split. Nothing like having 2 BiSlob kits and also 2 Super Flys to build. One of each of the designs I had to replace wood because it was either too soft or too warped. Now the one Mauler kit everybody keeps asking how I kept it so light. Now to hard blocks of balsa. When I got my order from Lone Star I was a little upset at the blocks I got for making the Jumbl fuselage. Between carving knife, grinders, routers and 60 grit paper I got the blocks carved and hollowed out. For that design I am glad the block were solid/heavy. Now I need a 13-3 prop for that thing to keep it slow. --DOC Holliday