Tax time for some

I just finish doing by federal taxes for 2006. The bad news is, I have a mortgage that would easily choke an elephant. Turbo Tax tells me that I'm in the upper 15% of percentage of income going to mortgage interest. Sigh....

Good news is, I'm getting a really sizeable return. Most if it will probably go to bills, but I may be able to sneak a little out for model plane stuff. That's something.

Just another indication that you need to move to Ephrata, where land is cheap, flat, and treeless. Put in a circle there. I'll be over to fly.

Howard Rush

Howard,

I thought you were moving to Spokane?

I have high hopes that the local RC guys will let me put in a circle at their place.

Bad news is the gov. has had all that money free for a year.

Walte

The really bad news is they are always cooking up more ways on how to steal it from us and not give it back.

Ive got em. I no longer have to file Taxes because I am on Social Security and am now starving to death. There going to get you no matter what. Best that I took care of things before I retired.

If you get a return all it means is you gave the IRS an interest free loan. If you owe the IRS then you got an interest free loan.

Retro_53

I hope that you realize that our idiot president in his budget coyly left out that he's stealing I mean borrowing 285 million surplus out of the social security fund/ Just another parasitte in a long line of them. You really don't think that the govt is ever going to put it back do you. I get a rubber i,o,u, to join the countless others that the govt has literally stolen from the taxpayers. Lest you think differently. The govt does not contriburte so much as one penny to that fund, all they have done is what they do best, mis appropriate funds, criminal unless your the recepient of your favorite senators pork.
Dennis

I may be looking for a new state to live in. We have Jennifer Government here. A cute little blonde beauty of a governor who could still get a job as a cheerleader if she wasn't so busy raining taxes and dreaming up new ones to feed her uncontrollable spending habit.

She's living in the State of Denial, not Michigan. Doesn't comprehend that doubling taxes will drive the top earners out of the state, reducing the total take.

People won't leave the USA over a tax increase, but they'll evacuate a city, county, or state instantly.

To quote Don Henly: A man with a briefcase can steal more money than any man with a gun.

Income tax was a temporary tax to help pay for the war. Temporary. Hmmm...

>I hope that you realize that our idiot president in his budget coyly left out that he's stealing I mean borrowing 285 million surplus out of the social security fund.

Sorry Dennis but I could not let this pass without comment. Actually, all spending bills originate in the House. The budget submitted by the administration is essentially meaningless.
There is no Social Security "Trust Fund" it is, and has always been just another source of revenue for day to day spending on welfare, vote buying, the Clinton's secret service detail rent on their Chapwa(sp)N.Y. property which pays the mortgage on the whole place,
pork, and Nancy P.'s USAF 757. That's why there will be nothing for you young folks when your time comes.
As for me, I am now getting mine so I could care less. In fact, I just got a nice raise thanks to the fine working folks who are all having a huge chunk of their paychecks confiscated for Social Security and Medicare. Of course, as they say "you ain't seen nothing yet". Wait until the day finally arrives when Uncle has to belly up to the bar and actually raise these payroll taxes to a level necessary to fund future benefits.
In the meantime Dennis, keep working hard so I can get more and bigger raises.
Jim

Jim,

Never heard a better argument to migrate to Canada...or Australia or maybe Mexico. Mexico is warmer.

America actually one tax that was fair, simple, and treated everyone equally.

It was so fair and equal that it united everybody to overthrow the government. The Stamp Act of 1765.

Thank you George III.

Since then, the politicians have never made that mistake again. Divide and conquer.

ps: Tax tobbacco and casinos all you want.



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Attachment #1, (jpg file)

Randy,
Canada...or Mexico? Both Socialistic states. You "Ain't" seen no Taxes yet like Socialistic States. Filing report says "Send in Your wages"!!!

Seriously, I hate taxes probably more than anybody, but let's keep things in perspective that US Taxes are still less than most countries and less than just about all highly developed countries.

For those that think Bush (I'm not particularly fond of him either but the alternative in the last election was far far worse in every possible regard) is a spend thrift because of the War, just wait until Nancy (spend-it-all)Pelosi puts forward her "give everybody everything for nothing to buy votes" policies in the House. You ain't seen taxes yet. With the Demo's in charge of congress and Barak Obama or (worse yet) Hillary in the white house there won't be any reason to work at all, and the US will likely become the next socialist country.

Of course this is all just my "very educated" and admittedly "prejudiced" opinion.

>>I hope that you realize that our idiot president in his
>budget coyly left out that he's stealing I mean borrowing 285
>million surplus out of the social security fund.
>
>Sorry Dennis but I could not let this pass without comment.
>Actually, all spending bills originate in the House. The
>budget submitted by the administration is essentially
>meaningless.
>There is no Social Security "Trust Fund" it is, and
>has always been just another source of revenue for day to day
>spending on welfare, vote buying, the Clinton's secret service
>detail rent on their Chapwa(sp)N.Y. property which pays the
>mortgage on the whole place,
>pork, and Nancy P.'s USAF 757. That's why there will be
>nothing for you young folks when your time comes.
>As for me, I am now getting mine so I could care less. In
>fact, I just got a nice raise thanks to the fine working folks
>who are all having a huge chunk of their paychecks confiscated
>for Social Security and Medicare. Of course, as they say
>"you ain't seen nothing yet". Wait until the day
>finally arrives when Uncle has to belly up to the bar and
>actually raise these payroll taxes to a level necessary to
>fund future benefits.
>In the meantime Dennis, keep working hard so I can get more
>and bigger raises.
>Jim


Hey Jim,
I turn 62 next month. maybe I'm young compared to you but I want mine too. I never said that there was a fund for me, but it surely wasn't meant to be used the way it has been misappropriated . He11 they even want to give benefits to the illegals, You know that illegals must vote otherwise the politicians wouldn't give a D** about them. I hope that you and I never have to go checking to make sure that our check was deposited and get an iou from our gove. Oh wait, maybe they will give it to you in food stamps, or I know TAX credits when you go back to work, perhaps as a greeter at Wal Mart.
Dennis

>I turn 62 next month

Outstanding! Take it now! Quit your job if you have one, find a part time job making $12K a year and play golf, build airplanes, go fishing, and laugh at the poor working saps.
Jim

>I hope that you realize that our idiot president in his
>budget coyly left out that he's stealing I mean borrowing 285
>million surplus out of the social security fund/ Just another
>parasitte in a long line of them. You really don't think that
>the govt is ever going to put it back do you. I get a rubber
>i,o,u, to join the countless others that the govt has
>literally stolen from the taxpayers. Lest you think
>differently. The govt does not contriburte so much as one
>penny to that fund, all they have done is what they do best,
>mis appropriate funds, criminal unless your the recepient of
>your favorite senators pork.
>Dennis
Taking money out of Social Security was initiated under Lyndon Johnson to finance the Vietnam war, I believe. Remember "Guns and Butter?" Not to mention the "Great Society", designed to eliminate poverty, which has the same overall rate per population it had at the start of the "Great Society". When the Income Tax was started in 1913, the rate was 1%, on "the rich", look at it now! The U.S. has the second highest corporate income tax in the world, Japan has the highest, according to Larry Kudlow on MSNBC. [photo not recovered: sipcof.gif]

>If you owe the IRS then you got an interest free loan.

Unfortunately, this is not really true. Any signigicant shortage requires payment of a penalty AND interest along with a demand to start making quarterly estimated tax payments or otherwise modify your witholding so that the shortage does not recur in the following year. Uncle Sugar depends on that interest free money you see.
Jim

I once read an article in Philadelphia Enquirer about the tax structure. More than 2/3 of the tax law on the books is specifically designed to exempt certain people or corporations. The only thing the government fears from the population is a true tax revolt. If I refuse to pay my taxes, I go to jail. If 500,000 people refuse, the government has a problem. A big one.

But no one will. It isn't the poor that revolt. It's the middle class that government turns into the poor. In order for any government to remain stable, at least 38% of it's population has to be what is considered "middle class". They bear the brunt of the tax burden and do most of the supporting of the country. When the percentages fall below that level, you have problems. We are there.

OK, sermon over. Didn't mean to preach.

>I once read an article in Philadelphia Enquirer about the tax
>structure. More than 2/3 of the tax law on the books is
>specifically designed to exempt certain people or
>corporations. The only thing the government fears from the
>population is a true tax revolt. If I refuse to pay my taxes,
>I go to jail. If 500,000 people refuse, the government has a
>problem. A big one.
>
>But no one will. It isn't the poor that revolt. It's the
>middle class that government turns into the poor. In order for
>any government to remain stable, at least 38% of it's
>population has to be what is considered "middle
>class". They bear the brunt of the tax burden and do most
>of the supporting of the country. When the percentages fall
>below that level, you have problems. We are there.
>
>OK, sermon over. Didn't mean to preach.

My Uncle is the president of TXU Electric. Yep that's right head man in charge of Texas' largest electric company, and other companies they own. He makes big bucks. Incidently he started as an entry level electrical engineer in a 8X8 office with another gentelman who at that time had 1 year seniority over him. They both went to the top. The other guy is already retired. Even after all his breaks and donations he pays more in taxes in one year then my wife and I, my Brother, my Sister and her Husband combined will pay in 10 years. I have read and heard that the top 5-7% of the earners in this country pay in somewhere in the 40-50% of the incoming taxes. After dicussions with him I believe it. Sure there are tax breaks but the % of their income they pay in is still higher than the average middle class. That is not good in my opinion. The sliding scale is stupid. He told me at one point along his career path one of his raises resulted in less take home pay because the tax change was so harsh.

But then you have all the people who say "Well they dont need all that money anyway." Who is anyone to tell what someone esle can do with their legally hard earned money. It is the rich who give us jobs not the poor. The more you take from the rich the less they can provide.

I believe a straight tax is the way to go. I fthe govt can make it on a straight tax across the board then they will quickly understand what programs work and what programs dont work. I also beleive people should have to pay their taxes at the end of the year or at some point during the year just like the old days before WWII. If people actually had to get out there Checkbook and right a check for 27,000 58,000 10,450, or however much, they would DAM sure be interested in where their money is going and who is spending it and who is getting their money and what for. I think you would see a serious spike in voter participation and public awareness. As for now they just keep sucking the money out of our checks and we just keep on keepin' on as best we can. People in Washington doing what they want when they want. They dont pay taxes it wont hurt them to raise yours.

Sorry to rant.

Doug,
You're a very smart guy. You should run for politics...I'd vote for you. Of course, about 54% of the people in the US can't think so they wouldn't. Tough nut to crack without lying!!! So...most positicians lie. Nobody wants the "bite the bullet" and pay the bills. Or more to the point "Stop running up the bills".

The only real difference I see in the two parties is that the Republicans try to stimulate the economy and create jobs by letting the rich guys invest and pay for more jobs, and the Democrats try to regulate the economy by taxing everybody except the poor (whoever they are) and create jobs that the "government" pays for. I don't have to tell you whose money pays for that. Actually It's much easier to identify the poor in that kind of system...It's nearly everybody except government officials.

Last year I cheated on my Federal Income Tax.

I failed to report a "gift" coffee mug my local public radio station sent me for donating $15 a month to them.. KRWG (NMSU campus station) sent me a special notice proclaiming the value of the coffee cup to be $7.50. (I told them to stop wasting money sending out such expensive cups.)

Screw'em. They can come and get me. Take a number. [photo not recovered: sipcof.gif]

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"My credit MUST be good. Everyone in town has it." -Leroy Cunningham

Gee Larry,
If I report you I get 10%. 75cents. Ya gotta be a bigger cheater than that...not worth the time to write the letter. Hey, what about all the money you make from flying model airplanes? Didn't you claim that? Me neither.

Dang, Randy!

You've got me, cold. I still have that framed buck Unca Mikey presented me several years ago at VSC. I never reported THAT either!

I hate to admit, both the CL Stunt money and women have tapered off recently.. [photo not recovered: cry.gif]

[photo not recovered: 22137.jpg]
"He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a fool
forever." -Tom J Connelly

Never has been nop was there supposed to be money held in a trust fund STRICTLY for any one person or group of persons or restricted only to paying social security benefits. It has never been more than an insurance policy paid for by your Social Security "taxes" Insurance premiums go in and checks go out. If the system doesnt raise enough to cover the checks sent out only a change in the law can change that. The government does have a mandate to be sure the checks are covered even if they have to repay what they have borrowed for other purposes. I have heard for 50 years that the "fund" would never last however I am still getting my checks. I suspect I still will, war or no war. Last year inspite of being over 70 and unemployed I still had to pay 7800.00 in income taxes because I cashed out my 401K pension. Even though I contributed 85 percent of my daughters living expenses I can not claim her or her son because she is married, His total income last year was about 5000.00 and I put in another 65000.00. You would think I could claim something.
Jon Ramsden
<@_@>

"Any SIGNIFICANT shortage requires payment of a penalty AND interest"

Simple math if you have an eight grade school education is how that SIGNIFICANT shortage problem becomes no problem.

Retro_53

And, what ever you do get back goes on the next years taxable income!

>If you get a return all it means is you gave the IRS an
>interest free loan. If you owe the IRS then you got an
>interest free loan.
>
Up to a point. If you get too big of an interest free loan they force you to pay a penalty. Best situation is where you owe them money but just below the point you get penalized.

I just shifted some CD's which matured into gov't T-Bills. Comparable rate, better liquidity, backed by the full faith of you-know-who an exempt from state and local taxes (income taxes). That wouldn't be much of an advantage to residents of AK, FL, NV, SD, TX, WA or WY which have no individual income tax.

It's time to read up on the Fair Tax. With that everyone will pay taxes, even illegals,and drug dealers.
Too bad allot of IRS workers will lose there jobs,and the size of the government will be reduced.

Bill Duane
Jax, Fla

Bill,
You just listed the reasons it'll never be seriously considered. That one will continually go to the bottom of the "pile".

You are right, shame on us for standing by while it happens time and time again. Things that would make a difference just get tossed aside.

Bill Duane
Jax, Fla

Bill,

I'll admit that I'm a cynic. When I was young I was a Jeffersonian. I believed that good people will make good decisions for all and that a strong central government was the best system. I suppose my political science advisor in college had a rather significant effect on me. I spent some time after graduation in Foreign Service and worked for a branch of the state department briefly (had an odd double major as an undergraduate that included political science).

As an older guy, I've become a Hamiltonian. I think old Alex had it right all along. Shame he didn't get his way in the Continental Congress. I think that in our current government, it matters little if you are Republican or Democrat. Politics is about money, power and control. Who has it and who doesn't. I told my neighbor (this guy makes Dan Rutherford look like Dianne Feinstein - just to the right of Attila the Hun) that I didn't really care if a Democrat or Republican is in office. If a Republican is in, they take my money and put it in their friend's pockets. If a Democrat is in, they take my money and put it in their friend's pockets. Different friends, but either way, my money is gone.

Doug,

According to the IRS's own publications (certainly suspect), middle income (the de facto middle class) is anyone making from $28,000 (the default "poverty line") and $135,000 a year. This currently constitutes approximately 44% of the total incomes in the United States (as a percentage of households filing). They provide approximately 78% of the total taxes collected in any given tax year. According to research by University of Washington, the total is closer to 82%, but that's a quibble. Again, according to the IRS, the average (mean) middle class American pays approximately 46% of their total income to taxes in a given year (granted, that includes all taxes including income tax, sales tax, excise tax and a multitudinous host of other taxes). The average for people (families) making more than $145,000 a year is harder to determine (again, according to the IRS) it is believed that at least some of the income earned and expended is done in other countries (and hidden) or "under the table" and so is not counted. But the average tax paid (again, all taxes), based on figures they have is 19 to 26%. Tough to tell how much of that is income tax (the publication I read didn’t distinguish for income over 145,000), but in any case it’s probably a larger proportion individually than what the middle class pays.

And it’s certainly a lot more than I pay. Not as a percentage of income, but in overall dollars, no question. But it's not a simple question. You can't say something like, the rich should pay their fair share or I pay more of my income than they do. It's tough to tell. When you have enough money, it's a lot easier to hide it or put it somewhere to reduce your tax burden. I don't have a tax accountant on staff to work this, but if I was in the upper 5% of income in the USA, you can bet I would and he’d better protect as much income as possible.

It's like Forbes saying that Bill Gates is the richest guy in the world. Probably true for reported income. But somehow I think the Prince of Dubai or King Abdullah could probably buy him with pocket change. And they don't report their income.

OK, I've rambled on about this way too much. The penalty of political science education, I guess.

edit for typo>

>Doug,
>
>According to the IRS's own publications (certainly suspect),
>middle income (the de facto middle class) is anyone making
>from $28,000 (the default "poverty line") and
>$135,000 a year. This currently constitutes approximately 44%
>of the total incomes in the United States (as a percentage of
>households filing). They provide approximately 78% of the
>total taxes collected in any given tax year. According to
>research by University of Washington, the total is closer to
>82%, but that's a quibble. Again, according to the IRS, the
>average (mean) middle class American pays approximately 46% of
>their total income to taxes in a given year (granted, that
>includes all taxes including income tax, sales tax, excise tax
>and a multitudinous host of other taxes). The average for
>people (families) making more than $145,000 a year is harder
>to determine (again, according to the IRS) it is believed that
>at least some of the income earned and expended is done in
>other countries (and hidden) or "under the table"
>and so is not counted. But the average tax paid (again, all
>taxes), based on figures they have is 19 to 26%. Tough to tell
>how much of that is income tax (the publication I read didn’t
>distinguish for income over 145,000), but in any case it’s
>probably a larger proportion individually than what the middle
>class pays.

Those numbers seem very skewed to me. Having family members in and over the ranges you talk about they dont make sense. From a purely income tax stand point. I am talking purely IRS income tax. Not state income tax and or other taxes. 19-26% that is way too low from what I have been told by people in those brackets. But I am not in the higher bracket so I cant tell you for sure.

>
> When you have enough money,

And just who determines what enough money is. My next door neighbor, at my old house, earned about 3/4 what I was earning when we lived there. He had 3 kids and his wife didnt work. I had one kid and my wife was working. He spent his money properly and therefore he had enough. I didnt and therefore I didnt have enough.

Having enough money is based on the decisions we make in our daily lives. Not some arbitrary number the govt hands out as a threshold. That is why it is not fair to say "You make more so your % is higher than that group over there. We are equal and should be taxed equal % across the board. Whether you make $10 a year or $10,000,000 a year. The % should always be the same.

That was several years ago. I am now a loan officer for a National mortgage company. I talk to people every day about getting loans. Second loans in particular. It is common for me to have to tell people who make 15-25K per month that they have too much debt to income ratio for them to qualify for a second loan on their house. Hoe much is enough, and who determines?

Sorry to rant. Off to play poker.

>who make 15-25K per month that they
>have too much debt to income ratio for them to qualify for a
>second loan on their house. >

15-25k per MONTH and they need a LOAN? Sounds more like they may need therapy.

If you can move to Venezuela and get a job, the government will give you food stamps equal to 10% of your income. When you retire, you lose your food stamps but no longer have to pay income tax. Just thought you would be interested in another option

...or you could move to Iraq, where the government (such as it is) gives you absolutely nothing, but you get the fascinating experience of having car bombs explode daily in your neighborhood.

All things considered, I'll pay my taxes and be eternally thankful I live here.

Mike Keville

Me I want to stay here in the good ole USA. When I was a working class citizen somehow I always got a refund. Missouri check was signed and sent to Kansas to pay taxes. Was always ahead it seemed like. Now I am retired I am having to pay more taxes. Two years ago had to sell stock to pay taxes for previous year. Laat year even after having more taken out in deductions still had to borrow to pay taxes. Signed up to have even more taken out. Have went back to work part time to have money to play with. Which state is it that does not tax retirement or pension?
DOC Holliday

Mike,
When the Democrats chicken out in Iraq we may have the Car Bombs here.
Won't that be fun...?
I think the only thing keeping the rats from our backyard is that we've taken the cheese to theirs.