VECO WARRIOR

I am building a Veco Warrior and would appreciate comments on whether an OS 15LAS is apropiate or should I go for the 25LAS? also
what length of lines are suggested- Thanks - Jose

The lightest one, the Warrior does real well light, and not so well overweight. A lightweight muffler would be very appropriate too. As well as a wooden prop.
Chris...

I would go with the .25. The airplane was designed to use old style very light .29 and .35 engines and actually flew well with a good .19. The forward end of the fuselage would need significant rework to narrow it down for the .15 and you might even end up adding nose weight for balance. Certainly use the lightest muffler you can find to keep the weight down. A 9X4 prop on the .25 should keep the speed about right. This is a small airplane, so keep the finish light.
Steve

You didn't mention the OS FP 20, and maybe you don't have it, but it will work just about perfectly here, also. Currell

A friend had one with a Torpedo greenhead .35. It was fast, but he liked it like that. I can't see it with a 15. This should be perfect with a Brodak 25.

Jose:

Forget the .15! Use the .25 at the very least. Back when Warriors were *the* thing (early 1950s) we flew them with Fox .29s and .35s. They flew rather fast, but that was needed in the Verticals and Overheads since there's not a lot of wing area there. Today's .25 engines should be just about right.

Mike Keville

Thank you, I had not considered the Brodak, but it sounds like a good suggestion, I think I will follow your advice ? Jose

No real need to modify the nose. Just us 1/2 x1/2 inch motor mount stock and cut them narrower aft of the firewall. I put a OS 25 in one of my old Squaws and all I did was sand the mounts to bare wood and add a 1/8 x1/2 piece of maple to the insides with epoxy. I pluged the old holes from the Ohlsson & Rice and redrilled for the OS. Worked just fine. Cheers............

Jose

I should have mentioned I had in mind the first version Veco Warrier like I built from 1950 to 1953. Mine were powered with the original Veco 29, which I still have. The last one I built in 1953 had a K&B Torp 24, but this motor was kinda weak, so I put the Veco 29 in it. I am not familiar with the later Joe Wagner version. Cheers..........

>Jose
>
>I should have mentioned I had in mind the first version Veco
>Warrier like I built from 1950 to 1953. Mine were powered
>with the original Veco 29, which I still have. The last one I
>built in 1953 had a K&B Torp 24, but this motor was kinda
>weak, so I put the Veco 29 in it. I am not familiar with the
>later Joe Wagner version. Cheers..........

I have a Veco/Richards Squaw powered with an OS 20FP .power aside if you install the motor inverted you have to either modify the thrust line,not recommended, or the top cowl. Otherwise you get a very pronounced slope from the cockpit to the spinner. I modified the top block to have a wide faux air venturi and gentler slope in front of it. It gives the plane a better look. If your doing an upright installation there is no problem.
Dennis

Thanks , good I asked ! what about line length? 52 ? or 60

With a .25, try 60 ft. of .012 lines. My SuperClown with an FP20 works well on these lines.
Steve

Jose,

I only mentioned using the 15 because that is what I would use and I flew two of them in the sixties of my very own. Not just watching my buddy's. Mine had a succession of engines from McCoy .19 to Stallion .35, but the LA 15 or 25 are both good engines and much more powerful than any of the old engines.

Notice the comments about the model's flying fast, this is from too much weight as the kit wood was heavy, and the big engine used to overcome this making the airplane needing to fly fast, as well as them probably being nose heavy.

I'm tempted to build one for a Cox .09 for all the "big engine" proponents to watch!

See my PM to you for details.

Chris...

Jose:

In the "Fox" era we flew Warriors on 60-foot lines, which would probably be just right for a .25 today.

If you elect the .15, probably should go with 52 feet.

And if you (or anyone else) elects to use an .09 in a Warrior, please videotape the attempts to get it off the ground, because we all enjoy a good laugh now and then.

Mike Keville

I had a Fox .201 (3 bolt backplate, really a .19) in my Warrior, and it was a tad tailheavy. I flew it on 60' .010" solids, which taught me to hate solid lines, tho we didn't know about cleaning, moisture, etc. It would do vertical square 8's well under 90 degrees, and was a gas to fly! I ran a 10 x 3.5 TF prop and Missle Mist in a 2-2-2 run.

Built from light wood, light finish, a .20FP, .25LA or B.25 would be an excellent choice. If you can build one to 16 oz, the .15 would work ok, but if the wind comes up, you'd be out of business. Steve

Steve Helmick
Renton, Washington
USA

>I had a Fox .201 (3 bolt backplate, really a .19) in my
>Warrior, and it was a tad tailheavy. I flew it on 60'
>.010" solids, which taught me to hate solid lines, tho we
>didn't know about cleaning, moisture, etc. It would do
>vertical square 8's well under 90 degrees, and was a gas to
>fly! I ran a 10 x 3.5 TF prop and Missle Mist in a 2-2-2 run.
>
>
>Built from light wood, light finish, a .20FP, .25LA or B.25
>would be an excellent choice. If you can build one to 16 oz,
>the .15 would work ok, but if the wind comes up, you'd be out
>of business. Steve
>
>Steve Helmick
>Renton, Washington
>USA


Like Mike said, it's a line length issue. A 20 ounce Warrior with a 15 on .012's at 52 to 54 feet would be just right. The model just isn't very big and was, in the past, overpowered, propped and lined. But that is because they weighed so much!
Chris...

Are you trying to goad me, Mike? You know i'll do it!
BTW, Cox TD 09's are very powerful.
Chris...

...Cox TD 09's are very powerful.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sure are. Used to fly them in Free Flight. Excellent engine on a 'Ramrod 432'. Doubt if they'd be much help on a Veco Warrior.

I could be wrong...have been before.

And, like Roy D., the Warrior referred to is the early '50s version with the pleasing outlines---not that homely, squared-off, redesigned version from the '60s that was later kitted by Dumas.

Mike Keville

>...Cox TD 09's are very powerful.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Sure are. Used to fly them in Free Flight. Excellent engine
>on a 'Ramrod 432'. Doubt if they'd be much help on a Veco
>Warrior.
>
>I could be wrong...have been before.
>
>And, like Roy D., the Warrior referred to is the early '50s
>version with the pleasing outlines---not that homely,
>squared-off, redesigned version from the '60s that was later
>kitted by Dumas.
>
>Mike Keville


I only had the homely, squared off version (I thought it looked like P-51, which though a bit squared off, has some pretty good looking lines). Dad would prop the McCoy .19 with a 9x6 and with a Tatone muffler and 60 foot .015's, plus his special super oil almost no nitro fuel mix from Hot Rod City it would be able to perform many pattern maneuvers with much whipping and running to and fro.

When Dave P. built the one for VSC 1 he used the little OS Max III .15 and it flew so much better than all of mine that I am convinced it is the way to go. Probably the proper propeller, lines and such made the difference.

Chris...

>...Cox TD 09's are very powerful.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Sure are. Used to fly them in Free Flight. Excellent engine
>on a 'Ramrod 432'. Doubt if they'd be much help on a Veco
>Warrior.
>
>I could be wrong...have been before.
>Snip....
>Mike Keville

Hi Mike and Chris, Actually I think Chris can pull it off...however..
Chris, you'll have to keep the all up weight between 15 and 16ozs.
This is possible but you'd better have lotsa FF and indoor FF experience.
That doesn't mean you have to use 4lb stock, just substitute wood sizes
and use grain effectivly, for eg: I built and flew a 13.5oz Lil Duper Zilch
with MVVS .15D7 power and I presently have an AA Senior that weighs 23.5
ozs powered by a PAW .19TBR(left hand crank).
Speaking of Ramrods, in the late fifties and early 60's I designed and flew
a Ramrod 450(based on Lee Hines super modified Ramrod 250) that weighed
only 11.5 ozs using a TD .09...what a scorching climb those models had(I built three).
That is a combined lifting surface of around 600 sq"s. I wouldn't expect
a 16ozs Warrior to last very long however..but then that wouldn't be
the point would it? Okay, I built a Veco Warrior around 1957 powered
with an OS .35 Max-1, the same engine that I used in my Combat models
back then. He He;
Tony

I'm currently building two of these now.As I read these posts I have growing concerns.Both kits were given to me .Actually there was 3 kits.The wood was horrible in one,so I sacrificed a kit to make the others.I used the wood in both kits.I somewhat feel its overweight myself.I did a lot of sanding and shaping to somewhat curb the heaviness .One is already in the painted stage while the other is still under construction.I have the painted version set up for a Fox.35 40th anniv.I have a Fox.25 if the plane seems overpowered.I built the painted one with flaps then was told I'd be better off with fixed flaps.I have an impressive paint job on it hopefully this won't add too much weight.I sanded carefully between coats.I added for what its worth a leadout slider and tip weight box in the solid tip. The slider took a bit of work to make it perform correctly.I know Richards kits makes the Warrior in a lightweight version.I'd like to see how it performs.I bet an La25 would suit the lightweight wood perfectly.In the future I'd like to hear more from all who has built one.I rarely see this plane and I find it to be really cool. Ken