I just discovered a video of Williamson's Flying Flounder which is really interesting and halarious to watch.....what an aircraft! Does anyone know if the plans are available for this ship and if so, who has them. I have got to build one of these......TDurrill...... Check it out at: http://www.aeromaniacs.com/Videos/Flounder_0001.wmv
Williamson's Flying Flounder
Stuka Stunt Main Forum · 37 of 37 known posts recovered
JAKinHouston · Aug 19, 2007 01:08 PM
#1 source>I just discovered a video of Williamson's Flying Flounder
>which is really interesting and halarious to watch.....what an
>aircraft! Does anyone know if the plans are available for
>this ship and if so, who has them. I have got to build one of
>these......TDurrill...... Check it out at:
>http://www.aeromaniacs.com/Videos/Flounder_0001.wmv
I think Larry Scarinzi and Hazel Sig had them flying at a past VSC. The English "Hundleby Kipper" is similar and even more rare.
JAK
>which is really interesting and halarious to watch.....what an
>aircraft! Does anyone know if the plans are available for
>this ship and if so, who has them. I have got to build one of
>these......TDurrill...... Check it out at:
>http://www.aeromaniacs.com/Videos/Flounder_0001.wmv
I think Larry Scarinzi and Hazel Sig had them flying at a past VSC. The English "Hundleby Kipper" is similar and even more rare.
JAK
I do not recall there being any version of Williamson's Flying Founder at VSC by anyone.
A photograph and a small construction drawing were published in Bill Netzegand's Control Line Capers column in the Jul/Aug 63 issue of American Modeler. One way to describe this is a flying airfoil. The version in the magazine has about an 11 inch span (untapered), is 20 inches long (not counting the upright engine which extends just in front of the leading edge). (This gives a rather low aspect ratio of 0.55) Part of the lengh is the flipper which is 2 inches. The the airfoil is 5 inches deep (25%) with the high point at about 25%. It is capable to cut its own streamer in a combat contest. In fact, the magazine column shows a picture with the thing running into its own streamer.
(Though it does not show a landing gear, this could be Classic Legal.)
A photograph and a small construction drawing were published in Bill Netzegand's Control Line Capers column in the Jul/Aug 63 issue of American Modeler. One way to describe this is a flying airfoil. The version in the magazine has about an 11 inch span (untapered), is 20 inches long (not counting the upright engine which extends just in front of the leading edge). (This gives a rather low aspect ratio of 0.55) Part of the lengh is the flipper which is 2 inches. The the airfoil is 5 inches deep (25%) with the high point at about 25%. It is capable to cut its own streamer in a combat contest. In fact, the magazine column shows a picture with the thing running into its own streamer.
(Though it does not show a landing gear, this could be Classic Legal.)
Keith
Uncle Mikey · Aug 19, 2007 04:19 PM
#3 sourceKeith is correct. There's never been a Flying Flounder at a VSC. Nor has Hazel Sig ever been here. Perhaps you're thinking of the annual Sig contest?
Mike Keville
Tucson
Mike Keville
Tucson
Flys a litle like a BiSlob.
SAVE ALL THE PIECES-Phil Brown
http://hangarflying.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=wire
http://hangarflying.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=wire
JAKinHouston · Aug 19, 2007 05:59 PM
#5 source>Keith is correct. There's never been a Flying Flounder at a
>VSC. Nor has Hazel Sig ever been here. Perhaps you're
>thinking of the annual Sig contest?
>
>Mike Keville
>Tucson
Probably so. I has seen de color photos of it in the de magazinee savvy?
JAK
>VSC. Nor has Hazel Sig ever been here. Perhaps you're
>thinking of the annual Sig contest?
>
>Mike Keville
>Tucson
Probably so. I has seen de color photos of it in the de magazinee savvy?
JAK
Bill Sawyer · Aug 19, 2007 07:35 PM
#6 sourceAn atrticle on this with plans was in American Modeler about 1960 - 1962 and I have the magazine. Walt built at least three different sizes. I flew with him when I was with the Norfolk Aeromodelers and flew the Flounder one time - once was enough for me. Walt could make it saber dance and it had a turn radius small enough that it would cut it's own streamer but flew too slow to put in combat. It is classic legal.
Hmmmmm, and what might those three sizes have been? Were they all pretty much the same but with different "wing" spans>
I can always "Kinko" my plan if someone is interested.
Mild Bill
I can always "Kinko" my plan if someone is interested.
Mild Bill
According to Netzeband's column, Williamson had a "12 inch wingspan version which flew for a year. Next cam a 'big" one -- 15 inch span. Third model was 9"...." Ir ia rhia "current design" that was featured in the small drawing described above in my previous post.
Keith
Keith,
Where would the balance point be on the Flying Flounder. Since its shape is so unusual, would that make it different than say, the Half Fast, Sassy Saucer or Greased Lightening? Thanks for any information you can provide on this........TDurrill
Where would the balance point be on the Flying Flounder. Since its shape is so unusual, would that make it different than say, the Half Fast, Sassy Saucer or Greased Lightening? Thanks for any information you can provide on this........TDurrill
>Keith,
>
> Where would the balance point be on the Flying Flounder.
>Since its shape is so unusual, would that make it different
>than say, the Half Fast, Sassy Saucer or Greased Lightening?
>Thanks for any information you can provide on
>this........TDurrill
The magazine drawings do not show the CG location. However, the leadouts come out of the wing centered around 5.5 inches. Assuming that the leadouts are slightly to the rear of the CG postion, that would put the CG right at 25% or maybe slightly forward of 25%.
>
> Where would the balance point be on the Flying Flounder.
>Since its shape is so unusual, would that make it different
>than say, the Half Fast, Sassy Saucer or Greased Lightening?
>Thanks for any information you can provide on
>this........TDurrill
The magazine drawings do not show the CG location. However, the leadouts come out of the wing centered around 5.5 inches. Assuming that the leadouts are slightly to the rear of the CG postion, that would put the CG right at 25% or maybe slightly forward of 25%.
Keith
>An atrticle on this with plans was in American Modeler about 1960 - >1962 and I have the magazine. Walt built at least three different >sizes. I flew with him when I was with the Norfolk Aeromodelers and >flew the Flounder one time - once was enough for me. Walt could >make it saber dance and it had a turn radius small enough that it >would cut it's own streamer but flew too slow to put in combat. It >is classic legal.
Uh, try American Modeler, Jul/Aug 63. See previous post.
(Edit for typo)
Uh, try American Modeler, Jul/Aug 63. See previous post.
(Edit for typo)
Keith
Pics and plans here
http://www.clstunt.com/htdocs/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=83494&mesg_id=83494&listing_type=search
Just a sport flier
http://www.clstunt.com/htdocs/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=83494&mesg_id=83494&listing_type=search
Just a sport flier
>Pics and plans here
>
>http://www.clstunt.com/htdocs/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=83494&mesg_id=83494&listing_type=search
>
>
>Just a sport flier
Thanks to all for the information......I think I can probably build one of these with the information you guys have provided. I would still be interested in hearing from anyone who has built and/or flown one of these Flounders.......TDurrill
>
>http://www.clstunt.com/htdocs/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=83494&mesg_id=83494&listing_type=search
>
>
>Just a sport flier
Thanks to all for the information......I think I can probably build one of these with the information you guys have provided. I would still be interested in hearing from anyone who has built and/or flown one of these Flounders.......TDurrill
I'm nearly done building a Foamie Flounder based on this design with a 25FP up front. Any suggestions on line length for BiSlob type use? I'm guessing 60ft should do nicely.
A.
--Welcome to the only sport where dope is not only legal, but often recommended!
A.
--Welcome to the only sport where dope is not only legal, but often recommended!
I would use .012 lines on the 25 engine. The Flounder tends to build tail heavy. So you might have a hand full with the model using a foam core. Good luck and have fun.
John Tate
Norfolk Aeromodelers
John Tate
Norfolk Aeromodelers
>>
>>Just a sport flier
>Thanks to all for the information......I think I can probably
>build one of these with the information you guys have
>provided. I would still be interested in hearing from anyone
>who has built and/or flown one of these
>Flounders.......TDurrill
I flew John Tate's Flounder a few years ago. Its pretty fun, but does handle a bit different than a Slob. Its basically a lifting body and flies faster than a slob and can develop a high sink rate pretty quickly, which makes it easy to bottom out maneuvers into the ground. When the engine quits, it has the glide ratio of the lifting body in the Bionic Man crash. That means the little rudders get broken off very often, and covering with film is a necessity since impacts on landing will bash the bottom up.
The good new is that there aren't many parts, I think they can be built pretty light and created more quickly than a slob, so you can tear one up and make a new one quickly.
Steve
>>Just a sport flier
>Thanks to all for the information......I think I can probably
>build one of these with the information you guys have
>provided. I would still be interested in hearing from anyone
>who has built and/or flown one of these
>Flounders.......TDurrill
I flew John Tate's Flounder a few years ago. Its pretty fun, but does handle a bit different than a Slob. Its basically a lifting body and flies faster than a slob and can develop a high sink rate pretty quickly, which makes it easy to bottom out maneuvers into the ground. When the engine quits, it has the glide ratio of the lifting body in the Bionic Man crash. That means the little rudders get broken off very often, and covering with film is a necessity since impacts on landing will bash the bottom up.
The good new is that there aren't many parts, I think they can be built pretty light and created more quickly than a slob, so you can tear one up and make a new one quickly.
Steve
Patrick Rowan · Mar 20, 2008 10:15 PM
#17 sourceI watched Bub Reese of Maryland flying his Flounder at Brodaks Contest last year. Wild. As Steve said 0 glide.
Fly Stunt
Does anyone here currently own a Williamson Flounder and if so, what engine and prop combination do you find is most efficient?.....TDurrill
Larry Scarinzi flew this plane in practice during VSC 2008. He flew it admirably in a stiff wind late one afternoon. It sort of looks like a Flounder. Please note the dark colored tail feathers as they do not show up well in the photo.
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Larry Lindburg AMA 95707
A Fox 35 is the engine of choice and a 10-5 to a 10-6 prop. Use a prop that is hard to break. With a glide ratio of a brick and no landing gear, the prop is the first to go on the Flounder.
John Tate
John Tate
That video looks more like a "Floundering Flier," than a Flying Flounder. 
Several years back at a VSC, Marvin Denny and at least one other flier played with Bi-Slobs after scheduled flights were completed. That was on the grass circle nearest the ramada and restroom.Heard they tried to get three 'Slobs up at a time. Saw two up, but not three. I think BigIron gave one of the 'Slobs to a local kid.
Many years before that, I remember someone flying a Flounder at the Tucson site. Strange!!!
Several years back at a VSC, Marvin Denny and at least one other flier played with Bi-Slobs after scheduled flights were completed. That was on the grass circle nearest the ramada and restroom.Heard they tried to get three 'Slobs up at a time. Saw two up, but not three. I think BigIron gave one of the 'Slobs to a local kid.
Many years before that, I remember someone flying a Flounder at the Tucson site. Strange!!!
\BEST\LOU
Finished my Foamie Flounder tonight. Flying in the morning, hopefully.
25FP up front on bladder tank. Seems a bit nose heavy at 13%MAC... Might have to throw the ASP 15 on it instead of the 25FP. I'll see how it flies first.
A.
--Welcome to the only sport where dope is not only legal, but often recommended!
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25FP up front on bladder tank. Seems a bit nose heavy at 13%MAC... Might have to throw the ASP 15 on it instead of the 25FP. I'll see how it flies first.
A.
--Welcome to the only sport where dope is not only legal, but often recommended!
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Just got back from the field...
Its flies like a champion!! Just like a Slob except that it speeds up alot more when let loose. In hover its the same as a slob. Balance point could go back a bit, but its not bad at 13%. The 25FP with a fat ST NVA choking the stock venturi and a 9x4 tornado prop seems to work well for hovering, stunts and level flight. A 10x3 prop might also be good. When the engine loses power just before cutting you can hover it until it flops down onto the ground... like a fish out of water.
A.
--Welcome to the only sport where dope is not only legal, but often recommended!
Its flies like a champion!! Just like a Slob except that it speeds up alot more when let loose. In hover its the same as a slob. Balance point could go back a bit, but its not bad at 13%. The 25FP with a fat ST NVA choking the stock venturi and a 9x4 tornado prop seems to work well for hovering, stunts and level flight. A 10x3 prop might also be good. When the engine loses power just before cutting you can hover it until it flops down onto the ground... like a fish out of water.
A.
--Welcome to the only sport where dope is not only legal, but often recommended!
How much engine offset did you use.
I have a Bi-Slob with the 12 deg offset as shown on plan.
But the Flounder plan I have looks like offset is only 4~6 degrees.
Allan Perret
I have a Bi-Slob with the 12 deg offset as shown on plan.
But the Flounder plan I have looks like offset is only 4~6 degrees.
Allan Perret
I guess my one is more of a Floundering Neon Tetra...
This has about 5 degrees of engine offset and 3 of fin offset. Thats plenty. Because the wingspan is so short, the leadout rake angle is enormous, maybe 20 degrees. Thats were all the tension comes from, not so much the offset. If you keep the airspeed up, it will climb up to directly overhead and flip about at your command while hanging on the prop. You could sit if vertically on the ground and take off straight up like one of those strange '50s experimental military things. Hand launch at 45 degrees seems the best way for me.
Oh, and the exhaust doesn't go inside the model. The muffler just touches the wing and the vent is angled up to flow hot exhaust right at your helper on take-off.
I'll post a picture when I get home of my airfoil template (clamshell style of course) for those who want their own clam and flounder chowder. Now, say 'chowder', Frenchie
A.
--Welcome to the only sport where dope is not only legal, but often recommended!
This has about 5 degrees of engine offset and 3 of fin offset. Thats plenty. Because the wingspan is so short, the leadout rake angle is enormous, maybe 20 degrees. Thats were all the tension comes from, not so much the offset. If you keep the airspeed up, it will climb up to directly overhead and flip about at your command while hanging on the prop. You could sit if vertically on the ground and take off straight up like one of those strange '50s experimental military things. Hand launch at 45 degrees seems the best way for me.
Oh, and the exhaust doesn't go inside the model. The muffler just touches the wing and the vent is angled up to flow hot exhaust right at your helper on take-off.
I'll post a picture when I get home of my airfoil template (clamshell style of course) for those who want their own clam and flounder chowder. Now, say 'chowder', Frenchie
A.
--Welcome to the only sport where dope is not only legal, but often recommended!
Apparently, this style of flying had several adherents, back in the day.
Bob Sugden, a local Salt Lake City flyer and clubmate had a Flounder, but it was not the same. It is likely OT legal, as he made up a bunch of kits and sold them out the back of his car years ago. It had the wings held on with rubber bands, and was quite a good flying design.
The reason for mentioning him in this post is because of another of his designs, called the "15".
Very much in the same league as Williamsons "Flounder".
As far as I know, there were rudimentary plans made, but all the information was included in the name, "15".
It used a .15 engine.
It had a 15% airfoil.
The wing chord was 15"
It had a 15" wingspan.
It had an elevator that was 15% of the chord.
It balanced at 15% of the wing chord.
It took you at least 15 flights before you could run the tank out.
Gordan has one in his hangar, I'll try and get a pic of it.
Bob Sugden, a local Salt Lake City flyer and clubmate had a Flounder, but it was not the same. It is likely OT legal, as he made up a bunch of kits and sold them out the back of his car years ago. It had the wings held on with rubber bands, and was quite a good flying design.
The reason for mentioning him in this post is because of another of his designs, called the "15".
Very much in the same league as Williamsons "Flounder".
As far as I know, there were rudimentary plans made, but all the information was included in the name, "15".
It used a .15 engine.
It had a 15% airfoil.
The wing chord was 15"
It had a 15" wingspan.
It had an elevator that was 15% of the chord.
It balanced at 15% of the wing chord.
It took you at least 15 flights before you could run the tank out.
Gordan has one in his hangar, I'll try and get a pic of it.
I'm wondering why everything is spinning around?
John Miller
John Miller
David Hoover · Mar 23, 2008 08:29 PM
#25 sourceCute! But if it's a flounder, why aren't both eyes on top? Sorry, I just couldn't resist.
Best, Hoovie
Life is simple. Eat. Sleep. Fly
Good looking Flounder. Now you know what the fun is all about.
John Tate
John Tate
Cute! But if it's a flounder, why aren't both eyes on top?
Sorry, I just couldn't resist.
Best, Hoovie
Life is simple. Eat. Sleep. Fly
Perhaps it is still young. When a Flounder is born it has one eye on top and one on the bottom. As it grows, the eye on the bottom gradually moves to the top.
If one is going to build a larger version, perhaps it should be named Fluke for the "Summer Flounder" which can get up to ten pounds.
I guess you could say the plane "flounders" around so much that it is a "fluke" that it even flies...Groooan
Hmmm! I might try one with a .15 in it. Sounds like it would be a real fun craft.
George
Sorry, I just couldn't resist.
Best, Hoovie
Life is simple. Eat. Sleep. Fly
Perhaps it is still young. When a Flounder is born it has one eye on top and one on the bottom. As it grows, the eye on the bottom gradually moves to the top.
If one is going to build a larger version, perhaps it should be named Fluke for the "Summer Flounder" which can get up to ten pounds.
I guess you could say the plane "flounders" around so much that it is a "fluke" that it even flies...Groooan
Hmmm! I might try one with a .15 in it. Sounds like it would be a real fun craft.
George
Steve Fitton · Mar 24, 2008 08:55 AM
#28 sourceThat's ingenious! A foam flounder!
Steve
Steve
Hey that is way cool. I need to have one of them.
Bob Hunt: Are you interested in supplying the foam core?
Where does the exhaust exit?
Allan Perret
Bob Hunt: Are you interested in supplying the foam core?
Where does the exhaust exit?
Allan Perret
Hi Allan:
Yes, certainly I could provide foam cores for this simple model. I would need to see the plan for sizes and templates, but I suspect that they would cost in the neighborhood of $15.00 plus postage.
Thanks for the thought - Bob Hunt
Yes, certainly I could provide foam cores for this simple model. I would need to see the plan for sizes and templates, but I suspect that they would cost in the neighborhood of $15.00 plus postage.
Thanks for the thought - Bob Hunt
My 10 seconds of fame. That is me flying the flounder. 50' lines are perfect. Fox .35 and I think a 9X6 prop. Actually does better than a Bi-Slob, at least mine, as the slob needs some wind. This one does not seem to.
Cary
De Hill had the Flounder he picked up at VSC 20 out at the field today. It is a strange looking beast.
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_____________________________________________________________________
Please visit my photo page http://community.webshots.com/user/inferalanding
Please visit my photo page http://community.webshots.com/user/inferalanding