Builder of the Model, One More Time......................
Stuka Stunt Main Forum · 31 of 31 known posts recovered
I just want to give my opinion of the BOM Rule, I attended my first appearence point judging event at the Nats last summer, and I was totally taken back by the excitement and enthusiasm generated at the event.
I think it would be a mistake to eliminate it, this coming from a guy who's plane ended up on the last row (it was a ARC Cardinal), I do believe entry's would go down if BOM was done away with. There are some who realize the Walker Cup is out of their reach, and showing off their creation is what it is all about for them.
I am in total agreement with the importance of the BOM rule, but also think that there is a place for the ARFs and ARCs and think that the efforts that one puts in on his ARF or ARC should be recognized the same as he who builds a scratch or kit. Just not as many points as there is MUCH more work on a Scratch/kit build. If I had MY way, we would go back to the old way--- If you didn't build the ENTIRE (Wings, fuselage, and tail surfaces) you don't get to fly in the contest. But I am also adult enough to realize that times and opinions change and we MUST change (Called Evolving) or die.
Bigiron
Bigiron13
Those who compete with ARFs and ARCs get their reward in the points they earn doing the pattern, AND those who put the effort into sanding and finishing get a bonus in appearance points. An ARF obviously does not qualify for those points, an ARC possibly. Appearance has nothing to do with where the structure came from other than a well-built structure will usually yield a better overall appearance and might be easier to obtain with an ARC.
To flog a dead horse, the BOM is only dead if the integrity of the entrant is also dead.
don Burke
Menifee, CA
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming, WOO HOO, What a Ride!
>To flog a dead horse, the BOM is only dead if the integrity of
>the entrant is also dead.
Don,
That's as aptly put as anything I've read in years.
It's nice to know you didn't mind being in the back row at the Nats. Russ' airplane is back there every year...and he even designs his own, never mind building them from scratch.
Randi
P.S. Love your tag line. A couple of years ago when I was living with my right leg in a cast and wondering if I would ever run again, my sister sent me that quote. It's what got me though the next surgery and the final year of healing. When I get wherever I'm going this body will be a wreck, but I will have had a fine time getting there.
>Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention
>of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body,
>but rather to skid in sideways - body thoroughly used up,
>totally worn out and screaming, WOO HOO, What a Ride!
Atta boy Bigiron. In fact I'll give you two atta boys and a gold star for the most realistic approach.
Retro_53
I BOM but still feel like a nobody.
> I am in total agreement with the importance of the BOM
>rule, but also think that there is a place for the ARFs and
>ARCs and think that the efforts that one puts in on his ARF or
>ARC should be recognized the same as he who builds a scratch
>or kit. Just not as many points as there is MUCH more work on
>a Scratch/kit build. If I had MY way, we would go back to
>the old way--- If you didn't build the ENTIRE (Wings,
>fuselage, and tail surfaces) you don't get to fly in the
>contest. But I am also adult enough to realize that times and
>opinions change and we MUST change (Called Evolving) or die.
>
> Bigiron
I've been forced to this conclusion as well Marvin. I'd like to see it like it was, but then I'd like to look like I used to look too, Ha Ha!!! Not gonna happen.
Marvin,
I feel exactly as you've described.
I think that describes the attitude of the rules change that you and Mr Powell have worked on. That's why I support it.
I hope it works so we can move on!
Thanks.
Randy C
I see the same 15-20 people thrashing this over and over.How many people fly CL today in the USA? How many enter a stunt contest in the USA? Does any one know? Boredom must be very high to keep bring this up. Some one will say "but it is so important".It may be but every week? I don't visit ether forum much any more but what is the first thing I see BOM,BOM.It is really driving me away.
Ed
>I see the same 15-20 people thrashing this over and over.How
>many people fly CL today in the USA? How many enter a stunt
>contest in the USA? Does any one know? Boredom must be very
>high to keep bring this up. Some one will say "but it is
>so important".It may be but every week? I don't visit
>ether forum much any more but what is the first thing I see
>BOM,BOM.It is really driving me away.
>Ed
There are 4 or 5 proposals concerning BOM in front of the Control Line Contest Board at this time, I believe. Apparently some are not being driven away.
> I am in total agreement with the importance of the BOM
>rule, but also think that there is a place for the ARFs and
>ARCs and think that the efforts that one puts in on his ARF or
>ARC should be recognized the same as he who builds a scratch
>or kit. Just not as many points as there is MUCH more work on
>a Scratch/kit build. If I had MY way, we would go back to
>the old way--- If you didn't build the ENTIRE (Wings,
>fuselage, and tail surfaces) you don't get to fly in the
>contest. But I am also adult enough to realize that times and
>opinions change and we MUST change (Called Evolving) or die.
>
> Bigiron
Im a neanderthal, but I can change, if I have to.....I guess!
Chromagnon Prayer
What Marvin says here is the most adult, fair, willing to change type comments, I have heard on this subject by a member of what I would call "the old Guard" modelers and I hope some of the other adults in this group will be open minded enough to follow suit.
John Sunderland
John,
Russ' airplane routinely winds up in the last row at the Nats. We're still rabid BOMers. That's what it's all about for us...building an airplane that flies well.
Shouldn't you get credit for the work you do to promote our hobby? I mean, if there's credit due judges and credit due CDs and credit due flyers, shouldn't there be credit due also to the guys who design and build what we fly?
Randi
>John,
>
>Russ' airplane routinely winds up in the last row at the Nats.
> We're still rabid BOMers. That's what it's all about for
>us...building an airplane that flies well.
>
>Shouldn't you get credit for the work you do to promote our
>hobby? I mean, if there's credit due judges and credit due
>CDs and credit due flyers, shouldn't there be credit due also
>to the guys who design and build what we fly?
>
>Randi
I think judges who judge more than a certain number of contests should get a reduced rate on a PAMPA membership, and cookie-cutter ARF's really are boring, but they are fine if you just like to go to the field and smoke cigars or go to McDonald's for the latest "Big an' Smelly". That's the way I see it here in Va. [photo not recovered: sipcof.gif]
...I think judges who judge more than a certain number of
>contests should get a reduced rate on a PAMPA membership...
==============================================================
Now THERE'S a good idea. (grin)
mk
>
...I think judges who judge more than a certain
>number of
>>contests should get a reduced rate on a PAMPA
>membership...
>==============================================================
>
>Now THERE'S a good idea. (grin)
>
>mk
AMA gives discounts to Contest Directors if they CD are certain # of contests, I'm pretty sure, Mike, why not do something similar with PAMPA? 
>AMA gives discounts to Contest Directors ...
==============================================
Many of us remember when CDs received a FREE license for running a contest. That is, a real competition-oriented affair. Then the RC crowd began holding one-day "Limbo/Egg Drop" Fun Flys, requiring no real work or administration, and suddenly every other RC hacker was getting a freebie.
Didn't take the Academy of Mostly ARFs long to get wise to that. Now those who run REAL competition events get only a half-price deal...along with the "Float Fly/Limbo/Egg Drop" guys whose only real responsibility is (or SHOULD be) ensuring that all participants have an AMA license.
mk
You are SO correct Mike. I also know several CL fliers who got their CD liceneses just so they could get "Free membership (and now half price)" They seldom judge and often only do minimal "Help" during the contests.
I DO appreciate my discounted AMA membership for running or assisting in a AAA meet, but more-so I help and CD as it is a necessary function. This year alone, I co-CDed our AAA meet in wichita, Judged intermediate stunt at brodaks and judged two events at Tulsa's meet and helped judge De Hill's New York Mirror Meet stunt in Tulsa--- now that last one is a bugger.
Bigiron
Bigiron13
>>AMA gives discounts to Contest Directors ...
>==============================================
>
>Many of us remember when CDs received a FREE license for
>running a contest. That is, a real competition-oriented
>affair. Then the RC crowd began holding one-day
>"Limbo/Egg Drop" Fun Flys, requiring no real work or
>administration, and suddenly every other RC hacker was getting
>a freebie.
>
>Didn't take the Academy of Mostly ARFs long to get wise to
>that. Now those who run REAL competition events get only a
>half-price deal...along with the "Float Fly/Limbo/Egg
>Drop" guys whose only real responsibility is (or SHOULD
>be) ensuring that all participants have an AMA license.
>
>mk
How about a free membership in PAMPA for those that judge at the Nats, do you like that, Mike? It would certainly keep it simple. [photo not recovered: sipcof.gif]
Nats judges can use their per diem on anything the choose...I sure think that there should be SOME separation between Nats (or any) judges and the masses.
See Ya
Peabody
www.gscb.us /
www.richpeabody.com
>>
...I think judges who judge more than a
>certain
>>number of
>>>contests should get a reduced rate on a PAMPA
>>membership...
>>==============================================================
>>
>>Now THERE'S a good idea. (grin)
>>
>>mk
>AMA gives discounts to Contest Directors if they CD are
>certain # of contests, I'm pretty sure, Mike, why not do
>something similar with PAMPA?
More stuff for some poor dumb volunteer to keep track of? And who'll be the first to whine when said PDV drops a tick on the total, and the PDV judge has to pay the whole enchilada?
If I was paid $200 for each contest I judge in, I'd still lose money. OTOH, if I had to pay $1 to be allowed to judge, that would tear the sheet. If I was allowed to hobble score sheets for free, same vista point...yeah, that'd be fine.
I'm almost looking forward to adopting the FAI Rules. No Pattern Points, no more BOM discussions, a fair tradeoff. The 7 minute limit isn't a big deal, probably. I'm still not crazy about weighing planes on the field, in the wind, and I'm much against allowing any sort of lines that will pass the pulltest. But maybe I'll get used to those notions. [photo not recovered: sipcof.gif] Steve
Steve Helmick
Renton, Washington
USA
I take issue with the discounts for CDs...always have.
I don't want to compete in a contest CD'ed by a guy that is only doing it to get an AMA membership.
See Ya
Peabody
www.gscb.us /
www.richpeabody.com
>I don't want to compete in a contest CD'ed by a guy that is
>only doing it to get an AMA membership.
=============================================================
And you won't...unless you suddenly find yourself attracted to RC Float Fly/Limbo/Egg Drop gatherings masquerading as "contests".
mk
Ah Mike...
It's all the rage in the area....
There is a club to the suth (still in NJ) that everyone is a CD!
See Ya
Peabody
www.gscb.us /
www.richpeabody.com
>There is a club...(still in NJ) that everyone is a CD!
=======================================================
My point, exactly. Quite a difference between those so-called "contest" directors and genuine CDs----like my ex-wife, who spent many sleepless nights preparing scoresheets and so forth, then devote a weekend (or entire week) to supervising actual competition, settling rules disputes, etc.
I could go on....but had better not.
mk
> I just want to give my opinion of the BOM Rule,
I think it is really important we discuss this issue in detail.
It has been so under-analyzed over the years.
About time someone paid this critical, but obscure issue some attention.
... It has been so under-analyzed over the years. About time someone paid this critical, but obscure issue some attention.
===================================================================
GOOD one, Cy!
mk 
"...I attended my first appearence point judging event at the Nats last summer, and I was totally taken back by the excitement and enthusiasm generated at the event."
Me, too.
Howard Rush
Bellevue, WA, but bad/nationwide
>"...I attended my first appearence point judging event
>at the Nats last summer, and I was totally taken back by the
>excitement and enthusiasm generated at the event."
>
>Me, too.
>
>Howard Rush
>Bellevue, WA, but bad/nationwide
Hard to pick out a winner between your Impact, Granderson's original, and the Infinity Prime.
>"...I attended my first appearence point judging event
>at the Nats last summer, and I was totally taken back by the
>excitement and enthusiasm generated at the event."
>
>Me, too.
>
>Howard Rush
>Bellevue, WA, but bad/nationwide
Gracious! Howard's pithy comments are now down to two words, one comma and a period.
Dan
>>"...I attended my first appearence point judging
>event
>>at the Nats last summer, and I was totally taken back by
>the
>>excitement and enthusiasm generated at the event."
>>
>>Me, too.
>>
>>Howard Rush
>>Bellevue, WA, but bad/nationwide
>
>
>Gracious! Howard's pithy comments are now down to two words,
>one comma and a period.
>
>Dan
>
>
Swell!
>
>Me, too.
>
>Howard Rush
>Bellevue, WA, but bad/nationwide
Well, I should think so!
Randi
*edit to add quote from JST poster
>Me, too.
===============================================================
Easy to understand his sentiment, considering the ultimate (and well-deserved) location of his entry that afternoon.
mk
