Arlington Washington

Hey guys I went up to fly @ Arlington today & found a couple guys useing it as a kite flying field...pretty big kite if we don't get rid of these guys we're gonna lose this one & would bet. Any know who the Skyraiders spokeperson might be?
This one guy had a kite big enough to pull him along @ 15 mph sitting in his Little Red wagon.

I'd wait to see if it's a persistent problem. I saw a big-kite guy there before. He needed more wind than one would want to fly stunt in at that field, so he didn't set up until I left.

How's the field?

Howard Rush
Bellevue, WA

Hi Howard, there was this young guy there with a big kite then this old guy ( our age) walked in with a small kite & they talked a bit then they both flew again. The grass is real good it could always be better but real good.
I put in the maiden voage on my new Skylark 2... I hope it gets better because at this point she anit so darn good at all. Mostly engine & tank with the trouble.

I thought kite flying on airport property is against the law. FAA does not allow kite flying within 3 miles of airports.

This kid has a 2 line ,2 handed kite. about 12' by 3'.....he flies it with the wind blowing it towards the High Voltage lines & I don't mean 240volts I showed him what a fellow worker looked like after 12,500 volts does it thing kinda like the guy Richard Kimble was looking for. And decribed a few other people's misfortune with the stuff. ( Thadd , I'm sure you could add to this) he was in denial with my facts . His kite was with in 25' of these likes with the wind blowing into the lines. I don't concider him the most cautious person I've ever met. Thing is if this kid blows himself up we lose the field I'm sure of that . And if they hang out there we really can't fly there.
It's a very nice flying site & I'd hate to lose it.

Who owns the property? Club owned or City?
...and yes, if it's within 3 miles of an Airport or they're flying wrecklessly near power lines CALL THE POLICE! That's within your rights.

Possible post it - "Control Line Model Flying Only
No R/C, or KITE FLYING allowed!"

Cite a municipal code, by order of, blatant threat, or whatever you can come up with. Otherwise they will probably ignore anything you will say. We are losing our field this summer, hate to see another one lost needlessly.

> I showed him what a
>fellow worker looked like after 12,500 volts does it thing
>kinda like the guy Richard Kimble was looking for.


i like the reference....i guess he came away missing a limb huh? i've seen 480 go phase to phase and it isn't pretty.

How about getting some sort of "rules" sign put up? couldn't hurt, might help!
Joe
Never Give up! Never Surrender!

I would be careful how you speak, and react to this.
You might start sounding like the people that run us off flying sites. (Do unto others):-)

>I would be careful how you speak, and react to this.
>You might start sounding like the people that run us off
>flying sites. (Do unto others):-)

That's not the point. If this guy gets zapped and killed and it's city owned, guess what happens next? No more field after the Lawyer$ get done $quabbling over blame. Club owned?, hope ya got liability insurance. Not sure how much the AMA would cover...

You need to get those jerks to leave NOW. Been there, seen that(not pretty) If its an airport, get the FBO Mgr.

The land is owned by the City of Arlington's Airport. We have been invited to fly there. I want whoever is theclub spokesman to be aware & hopefully contact Rob Putman the Airport Manager. We have written permission to be there. A month ago I had a slow minded fellow park next to me & fly his RC arf though my circle as I was trying to do the pattern. If I call Rob & don't approach this in the correct manor I risk us losing this great site.

Howard do you know who our Club Spokesman is??? You were but how about now?

You are right in approaching this cautiously and diplomaticaly. The knee-jerk response of many airport managers will be just to shut it down leaving you guys out in the cold. Good luck, hopefully the airport manager is a former (or current) C/L modeler and will understand the situation correctly.

RC is forbidden there for sure. The airport manager's main concern with letting us fly there is that we might attract RC flyers. I told him that when we are there, we can shoo off RC flyers. It would be nice if we could hand RC or kite people a copy of the federal laws regarding RC and kites near airports. Anybody know where to find them?


Howard Rush
Bellevue, WA

As far as I know there is not Federal Law regarding R/C and kites near airports. Towers and obstructions, yes. Here, Chico airport has an active R/C field on the airport property, actually inside the downwind leg of the traffic pattern. They don't fly over the runway and have a max altitude of 300' (I think that is an AMA altitude restriction) They were flying R/C at Marysville aiport for awhile as well. Not what you wanted to hear but...

I wouldn't think you need a federal law to keep them out. Just a sign indicating that it is a dedicated C/L field, R/C planes and vehicles not allowed per airport management. Oh, ya, kites also- those guys should be able to find another site easy enough. And an electric fence and padlock and guard dog wouldn't hurt either

Many RC clubs fly at airports - large and small. The only AMA requirements is stay below 400 feet and you need a spotter if within 2 miles of an airport or on airport property. Also, I think the airport authorities must be notified.

I also think diplomacy is best - you could just lose the site to the kite folks if they more pull than you or to RC folks, for that matter, as there tends to be a lot more of them.

Paul

Like I say if these guys don't disapear soon it 'll turn in the same thing as the car people at Boeing Kent...

How often are they there?

Howard Rush
Bellevue, WA

In both of the instances I mentioned the R/C flying is happening directly on airport property. The Chico site is quite active and with full cooperation with the airport management and control tower. The Marysville site is not active at this time. The Chico site is large enough for control line circles but I do not know if anyone flies there.

As the circle in question is on airport property airport management would have the authority to decide who flies and who doesn't. The problem is enforcement and if the whole situation causes too much grief with the airport, undoubtedly they will just shut down the whole site. It's a club flying site, non-club members verboten!

The high tension lines are reason enough to eliminate the kite people. I would like to think that the real modeler/AMA people would respect that your area is a dedicated C/L field. As for the non-affiliated knuckleheads, well, they could be a problem. OK, I'll step off my soap box for now - hope to see you all at the N/W regionals next month. PC

It's not a dedicated CL field, alas. It's just an open patch used as a dog toilet, CL field, jogging trail, and what-have-you. The only thing I know that's forbidden is RC. There is a quite proficient helicopter guy who practices there in a very limited space far from our circle. The others are yahoos who spot the field on the way home from buying an electric ARF at Wal-Mart.

Howard Rush
Bellevue, WA

Howard, if you go to the Arlington Airport website you will find the rules and Regulations. It clearly addresses anything Radio Controlled or Rockets as forbidden, but does not address kites unless you really stretch the definition of projectile. As far as the FAA goes they restrict kites over 5.0 lbs and are mute on anything smaller.

don't mention kites. Technically, a c/l plane is kite with a motor on it.

Pferg pointed out to me that showing how we are less perilous to air traffic than a guy flying a kite on 70-foot lines would challenge my debating skills.

Howard Rush
Bellevue, WA

I do know there more RC guys there & these kites guys know each other ...

There have been RC guys present when I was there, but they've pretty much kept to the north side and didn't stay there long enough for me to get over to harangue them. It would help if we had a law we could show to the RC guys, assuming they could read. All I can find is a pretty wimpy FAA Advisory Circular. We (the Skyraiders are not involved) have permission to fly CL there. The airport manager is opposed to RC, and would run them off if he knew they were there. I presume the Arlington police would be the agent he'd use. I wonder if the Arlington police would distinguish us from them, though.

Arlington has been unique among airports I've dealt with in appreciating the difference between us and RC nincompoops. The usual thing you hear is, "We let a guy fly here and he put his airplane through the side of a hangar. Go away."

Howard Rush
Bellevue, WA

"Nincompoops"? Fine, now I know.

Tom

You wouldn't fly RC in that field.

Howard Rush
Bellevue, WA

That's true Howard. But some say I can't fly control line there either

I'm not so sure I see a real problem here. And I am as protective of the Arlington site as anyone I know.

Typically we fly CL in the mornings, packing up shortly after thermals (the greatest concern) come into play, along with some wind. I don't think the kite guys are interested in these pre-thermal/light-air conditions.

Nor are we interested in flying in a gale.

As to the Arcey Folk, my theory has always been that we CL Dudes are allowed use of the field in hopes that we will chase off the former. I have been mildly active in this pursuit...

Dan

Dan, this one guy flies pretty close to my plane in flight & if the kite grabs some extra wind it would pull him right into the High Tension Lines on the South side of the field . It's a big kite.

The conduct you cite and the proximity of the high-tension power lines might quite nicely be resolved by the latter.

Dan

There is no official connection between the NW Skyraiders and the site at Arlington. Hasn't been since it was closed some years ago, even though it was re-opened to CL use. In those days, we paid the site insurance on an annual basis, but Mel and the D-Bat guys split it with us. The Skyraiders can't afford to pay site insurance on every po-dunk field around here, until everybody joins our club or they form their own club and pay it themselves. That's just economics.

FWIW, to use the field, you are supposed to stop by the airport office and fill out & file a "Hold Harmless Agreement". I think it's free, but it has to be done when the office is open, which is not whenever most of us are going to be in the area. Given one of those forms in your field kit, feel free to call the Arlington PD and tell them that you have this here paper that says you're supposed to call them when unauthorized scoundrels are on the property. See how that works for you, anyway. [photo not recovered: sipcof.gif] Steve

Steve Helmick
Renton, Washington
USA

I think the airport discontinued that practice. Maybe I should look into reestablishing it.

Howard Rush
Bellevue, WA

>The conduct you cite and the proximity of the high-tension
>power lines might quite nicely be resolved by the latter.
>
>Dan
>

Indeed. The Finger of God might demonstrate His disdain for kiters squatting on a controlline circle.

At least you don't have "golfers" duffing divots out of a grass circle..

[photo not recovered: 26296.gif]

"Be wiser than other people if you can; but do not tell them so." -Lord Chesterfield

Hi Larry... what makes you think Golfers don't patronize " OUR" circle? Joking.. I had a few up there in the past... my biggest complaint is most of these usery groups have places that are set up for them... we have only one & it's pretty useless. So when we are allowed to use a place I get perturbed at there presance.

I don't post here very often and I'm sure no one knows me so I probably will be seen as a traitor for what I am about to say but I think you might want to consider the fact that kites are seen as "pretty" by most people and THEY DON'T MAKE MUCH NOISE before involving any municipal or airport officials.I'll bet it's a heck of alot easier to get a venue on public or for even private land for a kite festival than it would be for a model airplane contest. That alone should tell a guy something. Talking courteously with the kite guys to try and arrive at some kind of workable solution for sharing would be my approach.

Good points. About all I could come up with for a kite vs. CL argument is that, except for Bob Smiley and Mel Lyne, we stay put and don't wander around the field.

Howard Rush
Bellevue, WA