Oh Dear .

If you try , the next time you run out your lines ,

Nailing the handle to the deck behind two large screwdrivers ,

then putting a pin/nail / thin screwdriver throug the model end fittings .Sit down and pull ea line beside ea. other.as in we're
looking at the 'Stretch ' ., as compared to the pull on the handle in rough air .

Makes a good case for solid lines doesn't it...

Randy C

>Makes a good case for solid lines doesn't it...
>
>Randy C

Only if one is still using a handle with cable leadouts.

If using a Ted/Carl Shoup (hard-point) handle the case grows much less compelling in rather short order.

Dan

Can anyone explain just where the "stretch" takes place? The cables on my handle are not bent, so I don't see where any "stretch" takes place.

Floyd in OR

Floyd,
Cables tend to stretch more than solids because as tension is applied to the cable displacement of the cable strands takes place to slightly reduce the diameter of the cable (outside diameter not the individual strands). This tension and displacement results in the twisted strands straightening a little which increases the length of the cable. This action is very much like a spring, which is by definition twisted wire.

Dan,
While I certainly agree that a hard point handle greatly reduces the potential for stretch (and I have used one for years) by eliminating the handle cables it still allows the cable stretch in the lines which is indeed significant over 60 to 70 ft of line. Solid lines stretch much less because they obviously don't have this inherent "spring" action.

Randy C

OK. Now I understand. I was curious regarding the comment that "hard point" handles would eliminate stretch.

My observation is that solid lines were all the rage a couple years ago. Seems that they were just too delicate and fussy to maintain in prime condition. Are they still the hot item?

Floyd in OR

>My observation is that solid lines were all the rage a couple
>years ago. Seems that they were just too delicate and fussy
>to maintain in prime condition. Are they still the hot item?
>
>Floyd in OR

I wouldn't call solid lines a "hot item" but some us die hards still use them. I can certainly tell the difference between response with solids and cables, especially in the wind.

Actually the problem with solid lines isn't really that they're fragile. I've found them to be just as robust as cables. The biggest problem is the maintainence required in keeping them clean and dry.
Wet conditions can make them lock up solid under some conditions...bad, bad, bad.
When they get dirty they get "sticky". They have to be kept very clean to maintain free controls.
I polish mine when new with non abrasive silver polish, then wipe them down with isopropyl alcohol just before each flight.
I fly mostly in AZ where it's typically very dry so "wet" isn't too much of a problem.

Several folks have come up with various silicone sprays that help keep them from getting sticky but I haven't found the necessity to use any of them.

When I go out of state to a contest I take cables along with the solids for wet conditions. I find that some different trim conditions are required for the switch from solids to cables. Particularly the position of the line slider and sometimes a tip weight change.

Randy C

PS: Just as a note, if using silver polish on solid lines be very careful not to get it on the copper wrapped ends. It will cause serious corrosion of the copper.

Edited to add PS.

Id used solvol polish , and spray them with CRC ,particularly when used on the floatplane on sea water .

Ive got the spiked handle that upsets a few combat flyers , so
the handles upright and the wires out of the dirt . And try to keep the feet out of the lines (and the stooge line) walking out to Cr.

Best to walk in front of the wires for some reason. I figure a foot on the lines will stop the handle if something gets the jump on you.

Matt.

Hours are spent making the controls as free as possible. They move with as little as fractions of an oz in dead air. Even with full up or down the forces to maintain that flap and elevator deflection are fraction of an oz at speed. And you can detect the stretch? Please!
Last time I pull tested Paul Walker's and Howard Rush's planes and lines they were all cable. Even the handles were cable. Sounds like the Princess and the Pea to me.

Richard

Richard,
We get a bit of wind here. Some pull tests are anchoring the handle, both hands on the fuse, and lean back, to be sure
that there wont be a 'flyaway'.

single strand ,being music wire,will 'twang; like on a Guitar,

Flying a 71 Oz plane in a 25 mph wind on .016 solids, on a field with trees about,therefore turbulance, downdrafts and windshear,
you get a bit of 'twanginging' in the wires,at the bottom of manouvres.Both hands on the handle,heels dug in and leaning back.

probly get it in a 55 Oz plane on .014s in those conditions.

>Hours are spent making the controls as free as possible.
>They move with as little as fractions of an oz in dead air.
>Even with full up or down the forces to maintain that flap and
>elevator deflection are fraction of an oz at speed.

Uh, no, maneuvering tension loads can be in the range of 5-6 lbs on a typical 40-60 sized stunter even in good air.



>And you
>can detect the stretch? Please!
>Last time I pull tested Paul Walker's and Howard Rush's planes
>and lines they were all cable. Even the handles were cable.
>Sounds like the Princess and the Pea to me.

Changing from a cable handle to a hard contact handle was not at all subtle to me. In fact, it was almost unbelievable improvement that was as big a change as going from cables to solids. Without all the problems of solids.

Brett

Please note: our friend Al Rabe uses handles with cables. 'nuff said.

Floyd

>Please note: our friend Al Rabe uses handles with cables.
>'nuff said.
>
>Floyd


Hmmm, what an odd thing to say. I think it a personal choice and would hardly go by what someone else says is the hot tip. The best advice is to try cabled handles, hard-point handles, solids, and cables.

A guy might even try a neutral setting which sees the handle being held at ninety degrees to the lines. I did. Several times. The only time I actually liked such a neutral setting was the last time I actually worked at getting accustomed to it.

And now I would not consider going back to the pistol-grip style of holding the handle at neutral. But you might not like it--no problem.

Dan

Well Richard,
I can understand why your profile says Combat and Hi-Fi. I can tell the difference especially in the wind. Maybe you need to tune your hand a bit.
It's certainly true that most experts that travel to contests have reverted back to cables, probably for some of the reasons I mentioned (maintainence, wet conditions etc.)
I fly pretty much in AZ and prefer the feel of solids and a hard point handle.

Randy C [photo not recovered: sipcof.gif]

TREMENDOUS difference from Cable handle to Hard Point handle and Solid lines to Braided.IMHO. And Matt. NEVER NEVER walk out in front of the lines. When Stooging or with a Human launcher,walk the lines out from BEHIND. In a premature release for whatever reason, the lines can cut the Carotid Artery running down your leg and you can bleed to death in short order. They are more deadly than the prop in that respect. "A foot on the lines" to stop a runaway plane? CRIKEY Matt, now you're asking for it. [photo not recovered: shocked.gif] Respectfully and Safety First.

If your carotid artery is running down your leg, you are indeed unusual. The carotid is in your neck. The big artery in your leg is the femoral. Unlike the carotid , one can put a tourniqate (spelling?) on the femoral. Not arguing with your basic comment about safety,just your anatomy.

Been a while since High School. Oh Dear

How often DO you blokes in USA get a bleed out from slicing the Femoral A??

Sounds like a serious problem. I'm glad I'm safe in Oz

Verry perculiar women, Greggles . They mustv been watching television.

Gary, Lines and feet , heads , hands ? etc, dont mix well.
But if the foot is booted and has the upper hand, one pessumes the handle would be arrested at the BOOT . ( not thongs or bare feet ),
Thus enabling the handle to be uplifted and a degree of control of the aeroplane to be assumed.

which could save negbouring windows , heads , and suchlike .

Combat flierers apparently suffer disconection from the aeroplane on occasion .

The thing with control line , is its not free flight, or ,dread the thought, radio control ,which is for fitting to free flight models so they dont break windows and suchlike. apparently they havnt yet mastered this aspect of it, so it seems like a dead loss to me. generally so far ?

OK Matt I surrender. Just remember Murphy's Law. "If it CAN happen,it WILL happen".Safety First--Always.

This is just as bad as someone grabbing the oines when they go slack for some reason or another. Sliced fingers and trip to emergency room. I always walk behind the plane/lines when going to the handle wether with a human or mechanical stooge. I only use solid lines in racing events as they are required. Nothing like losing a plane because I have accidently step on the solid lines. No problem with cables. Now as far as aerobatics maybe some people have a better feel than I do as far as using solid over cable while flying aerobatics. Now hard point to cable handles, I can only tell a difference when the it comes to where the lines are connected on the handle. My Morris handle has a different feel than the Fancher handle because the connection is further out from pivot point. But every body has their choice and reason for using such and such equipment.
DOC Holliday