Specialized Balsa? Very un-special if you ask me!

I recently saw mention of a company called Specialized Balsa on this forum and on another one. I took the bait and ordered 200 sheets of 1/16 x 4 x 30 inch balsa and agreed to pay a large premium to insure that I received 4 to 6 pound stock. I was told that the order would go out within 2 weeks. Over a month later I called to find out the status of my order and was told that there were several orders ahead of mine and that they had no more wood of the quality that I ordered to send me. They said they only had 24 inch stock.

Needless to say I cancelled my order and told them that I would never order from them again. Just thought you all might like to know this about that company.

Bob Hunt

Too bad Bob....
Thanks for the info.
Randy C

Not good. I called about a month or so ago and they were up front with how long it would take to get 4-6 lb wood. In fact they told me they might not be able to supply it at any time. I wonder if there are certain people you need to talk to at their site. Still, not a good start for them.

Curious, did they charge you?

> I
>was told that the order would go out within 2 weeks. Over a
>month later I called to find out the status of my order and
>was told that there were several orders ahead of mine and that
>they had no more wood of the quality that I ordered to send
>me.

Well, Bob, you're still special to us.

Brett

Gee, thanks Brett... I think...

No, I was not charged. I left a credit card number with them, but to my knowledge I have not been charged.

This is disturbing as I have a bunch of cores awaiting sheeting for customers. All any of can ask is for companies to be up front and honest with us. I wasted a month waiting for balsa that was promised. Now I'm searching out other options.

I do have a balsa company that supplies me with very good balsa when they have it in stock. The difference is that this company never tells me something that they can't back up. If they don't have it or have little chance of getting it by the time I need it, they tell me.

Bob

Wow....forthright honesty in business. Getting to be a rather rare occurrence these days.
The exception to that of course is the cottage industry that surrounds PA.

Randy C

I made up an order to these people. They had to get back to me via e- mail for total cost. I discovered that my request for 6-8 lb. stock plus the shipping put the deal way out of my reach!

Floyd in OR

Hi Bob. With the supply of balsa ANYWHERE, it makes you wonder if we are now subsidising the ARF market in those "off-shore modelling sweatshops". In the last couple of weeks here in a local west of Sydney model shop, (and I should identify it for the Sydney guys as Barclay's Radio Control & Hobbies at Penrith) a sheet of 3mm x 100mm x 1200 (that's 1/8" x 4" x 48" to you guys) was A$7.50 per sheet! For a sheet 36" long was around A$4.50 making that extra ft nearly double the price.

With prices like this for general grade balsa it is well worth us Sydney guys making the longer drive to the well known Kellett's store where we can select our stock for a much lower price.

HH

I don't know if Peter Lloyd wants to ship PelAero balsa to the USA, but you Ozzies should get to know him. Ford Lloyd's kid...and a member here at SSW under PelAero or similar. Grown in PNG, too.

Here in the States, I'd look to Bud Nosen balsa, via Tom Dixon. Steve

Steve Helmick
Renton, Washington
USA

Hey Herb,

If you simply must get a bit of balsa quickly, Bunnings usually carry some. The quality is a variable feast.

For the really good stuff, see Peter LLoyd. Not always quick - depends on what stocks he has, but not bad for what he calls "fence palings" Haa haa!!

>Hi Bob. With the supply of balsa ANYWHERE, it makes you
>wonder if we are now subsidising the ARF market in those
>"off-shore modelling sweatshops".

Someone ought to point out to the Chinese ARF companies that they can make a much higher profit margin reselling the contest balsa back to us. All they need is someone to sort it before it goes into the production area, they can charge 10x what they paid, and come out way ahead.

Brett

What a deal.

Maybe they could encourage Columbia to grow balsa instead of coca trees? Naw, it probably won't grow there.. I think it only grows in Ecuador.

WHAT substance can we possibly use to replace balsa? Surely there must be something. Or maybe someone needs to invent it.

Maybe ARFs could be made from cardboard instead? Sheesh.

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"Nature does nothing uselessly." -Aristotle

The lack of a sustainable demand plus shipping costs (directly tied to oil costs on the world market) makes premium balsa not worth the investment for a supplier. EVERYTHING is going up in price as a result of fuel costs. Think about it, everything in your house has been on the back of truck at some point, including your house!
I think we'll be all forced to rummage thru dusty displays of Midwest balsa or Hobby Lobby balsa looking for quality sheets. On the flip side I did find a nice sheet of very hard 1/16 balsa...

I've had very good results from National Balsa. I've had a couple of orders from them and got just what I ordered and in a timely fashion. Last time I had to wait a month for them to get in the sort of stuff I wanted, but they were up front when I ordered and told me how long it would take and came through with what I ordered.

Nice folks to work with, too.


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Some days it seems like a coin toss between George Orwell and Monty Python...

I was picking up some art supplies at Michael's (chain craft store) the other day when I noticed a rack of Midwest balsa and basswood. "Oh, well", I thought, "why not look?"

Found several CHOICE pieces of 1/16" and 1/8" balsa there. Haven't weighed them, but they're straight-grained and quite light.

Might be worth your time to check them out.

Our Ace Hardware also stocks balsa sheets...but what I've seen so far would require two men and a hand-truck to carry it.

Mike Keville

My experience with ARFs (RC) is that they are not using good balsa. It is very heavy, heavier than any I would pass up in a hobby shop rack. Also, they use a lot of lite-ply where we would use balsa.

Like Randy, I have also had good results from National. Matter of fact, I just called in an order of about 40 sheets of 4-6 lb. wood on Monday of this week and it was shipped yesterday. In the past they have been very good to work with and they are up front about availability.

Bill Hodges

Thanks Steve for the plug; most of the top name stunt and T/R fliers get their timber from me already (DH ain't one of them). I am fortunate that I can trawl throught 4 x 40' containers full of balsa logs to pick out what I want (mainly 4 -6lb straight grain) and the best I can get is about 30 logs that just covers the locals and as suppliers in the 'states are finding out super light timber is like gold at the moment when you can get it!

Because of that and the cost of shipping I don't ship overseas, just not worth it

Ployd in OZ

It has been a nightmare to get quality balsa for my kits. One of the suppliers mentioned above to be good, sent me some fair balsa. They consider 6# to 8# as contest grade. When I distinctly asked for A-grain.. 1/2 of the wood shipped was C-grain. This can be used in some area, but not for leading edge sheeting.
Desired lengths cannot be obtained, resulting in more waste. Add to this the higher charges for shipping.. it means more costs to pass along to the customer.

Meanwhile, people seem to have no conscience in supporting poor quality items made in China... go figure.

I'm right with you Tom. I had to discontinue buying from them as they undercut my sheets and both ends were rough cut to boot so by the time you clean up the ends, you're short. Also a lot of orange rot spots in about 25% of the wood.
I have just received the first shipment from Tower and it was great. All sheets are cello wrapped and cut clean on both ends and the exact length. The only issue is the wood is hard but very light so this is where I will be getting my wood from now on and the price is about the same and yes the shipping cost is really getting up there! Wait until May, the USPS is suppose to have a significant increase in mailing costs. Hang in there Tom, we'll make it! Larry

Larry;

Do you have any weights? Hard normally means heavy.

V/r

Bob


> I have just received the first shipment from Tower and it
>was great. All sheets are cello wrapped and cut clean on both
>ends and the exact length. The only issue is the wood is hard
>but very light so this is where I will be getting my wood from
>now on and the price is about the same and yes the shipping
>cost is really getting up there! Wait until May, the USPS is
>suppose to have a significant increase in mailing costs. Hang
>in there Tom, we'll make it! Larry

delete

Use the balsa chart I sent you Larry. It's 8lb wood.

I haven't bought balsa now for a few years, but when I did, from a reputable source, I always ordered "contest" grade. I had a precise digital scale; in ALL the contest grade stuff, I only found one small block that was actually around 5 lb. The rest of it was 6 - 8 pound, which was satisfactory to me. I figured out that what was advertised as 4 - 6 lb was almost always 6 lb or slightly more.

But I hear of all this 4 lb balsa, and have seen very little of the stuff. Bill Melton had some blocks which he called "punky", which were the whitest, softest, and lightest balsa I've ever seen. What was it used for? Carved out top and bottom blocks! Of course, it carved like butter, but what a terrible waste, to my view.

Apparently some time in the distant past, such grades of balsa were quite common, and it was not that big of deal to use it.

I need an alternate material anyway, since balsa sawdust really bothers me. I wonder if I should be trying to mold wing leading edge planking from fiberglass or something?

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"My house is made out of balsa wood. When no one is home across the street, except the little kids, I out and lift my house up over my head. I tell them to stay out of my yard or I'll throw it at them." -Steven Wright

>I haven't bought balsa now for a few years, but when I did,
>from a reputable source, I always ordered "contest"
>grade. I had a precise digital scale; in ALL the contest grade
>stuff, I only found one small block that was actually around 5
>lb. The rest of it was 6 - 8 pound, which was satisfactory to
>me. I figured out that what was advertised as 4 - 6 lb was
>almost always 6 lb or slightly more.
>

I had the same observation, until I actually measured the thickness (instead of relying on the label). I found, for instance, that SIG 1/16 balsa averaged around .071-072, which is about 15% oversize. Take the actual volume and almost every sheet of "contest" wound up between 4 and 6 lb/ft^3. Lone Star was similar.



>I need an alternate material anyway, since balsa sawdust
>really bothers me. I wonder if I should be trying to mold wing
>leading edge planking from fiberglass or something?

I get a rash on my arms from balsa dust, it's very itchy.

Brett

>
> I get a rash on my arms from balsa dust, it's very itchy.
>
> Brett

Interesting.
I've found that I also get a rash from balsa dust that seems to only have developed in the last couple of years. Maybe a situation with long term exposure sensitivity.
Some balsa seems to affect me more than others. I now always wear long sleeves and a dust mask when carving and sanding.
Once covered with dope it doesn't seem to bother me anymore.

Good info about the thickness sizes...I also have noticed a significant discrepancy in some sizes on thickness from most suppliers. Lone Star seemed to be pretty close.


Randy C

You know the definition of an engineer? Someone who measures with a micrometer, marks it with a piece of chalk, and cuts it with an axe!

Actually, I also have a very good digital caliper, and it never occurred to me for a moment not to assume the sheets were actually slightly thicker than advertised!

Thanks for the info, it makes sense.

Also, it occurs to me that if I'm get a little toxicity from balsa sawdust now, can you imagine what I might develop trying to do something like mold fiberglass for a leading edge?

I already know that balsa won't grow here in New Mexico.

(That punky balsa Bill Melton had must have been 3 lb!)

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"The things taught in school are not an education but a means to an education." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

Larry,
I have a block that is 2 X 3 X 36 that actually calculates to 2.2 lbs cu/ft. I've had it for a long time (it came from Lone Star a long time ago). I asked Riley for some 3lb or less blocks and after a long silence he said I'll do my best. I think he sent me this one to teach me a lesson (I can imagine him laughing). It's so soft that just picking it up leaves finger prints. I keep it just to remind myself that there can be too much of a good thing.
Talk about "pithy"...
It is a nice conversation piece. I've never had the heart to try to use it for anything.

Randy C

I can hear him now..

"Har har har har...I finally got rid of that soft junk...and got money for it har har har har"

>Larry,
>I have a block that is 2 X 3 X 36 that actually calculates to
>2.2 lbs cu/ft. I've had it for a long time (it came from Lone
>Star a long time ago). I asked Riley for some 3lb or less
>blocks and after a long silence he said I'll do my best. I
>think he sent me this one to teach me a lesson (I can imagine
>him laughing). It's so soft that just picking it up leaves
>finger prints. I keep it just to remind myself that there can
>be too much of a good thing.
>Talk about "pithy"...
>It is a nice conversation piece. I've never had the heart to
>try to use it for anything.
>
>Randy C

Randy, Randy, Randy I thought you would have learned your lesson by now. Remember when I told you to go talk to Riley at VSC that year you complained about service on a forum? I am getting ready to send an email to an individual about a ready to finish kit. Did cancel order for electric Clown that was sent to people who ordered well after I ordered one. I am in process of trying to locate someone that I can order bulk SIG balsa from again.
DOC Holliday

Thanks Randy for the laugh, I needed that! Just to give you an idea about the wood weight, I bought several 3"X4X36 logs from Stanzel for my Pow Wow kits and Thunderbird's,and found them to be extreamly light. The 2 logs weighed in at 13.2 and 13.4 ounces! Nice and straight and easily cleaned up on the bandsaw. None of it is punky or rot colored. It is old wood but was kept well. The 2 1/4 Sq. X 36 weighed in at 11 1/2 ounces! This compared to Balsa USA of the same size (2x2x36) weighed in at 18 1/4 ounces!
I will be buying all my wood sheets from Tower as they clean up the ends and are straight and very nicely packaged in cello wrap heat shrink for protection. Larry

>
>Actually, I also have a very good digital caliper, and it
>never occurred to me for a moment not to assume the sheets
>were actually slightly thicker than advertised!
>
>Thanks for the info, it makes sense.

I would guess that this is more likely to happen with soft wood - it probably compresses when it goes through the planer, then puffs back up later.

>
>Also, it occurs to me that if I'm get a little toxicity from
>balsa sawdust now, can you imagine what I might develop trying
>to do something like mold fiberglass for a leading edge?

Somebody told me that it takes exposure to develop an allergy like that, so despite the fact that there are some pretty nasty things in polyester resin and epoxy, you might get away with it for some considerable time. Look how long it took for balsa to start getting to you.

Brett

>snip<
>But I hear of all this 4 lb balsa, and have seen very little
>of the stuff. Bill Melton had some blocks which he called
>"punky", which were the whitest, softest, and
>lightest balsa I've ever seen. What was it used for? Carved
>out top and bottom blocks! Of course, it carved like butter,
>but what a terrible waste, to my view.

I had an R/C kit years ago that came with a leading edge made from what I beleive was the PITH of the balsa tree - the center of the trunk. I'm thinking that's what you are calling "punky". It was totally worthless for anything structural and crushed and flexed in my hand like a limp noodle. I suppose if you had a block of it you could use it for turtledecks or cowling blocks and then 'glass it.

Bob,

I would find that what they did to be very good accept for one thing. Communication. They could have let you know they were getting behind after you ordered so you would know what was up. But other than that they did the right thing to NOT FILL YOUR ORDER with some heavy wood you didnt ask for and still get a fee out of you. That is what a lesser company would do. They would look at the short term sale instead of the long term customer. These guys here knew what you wanted and werent going to send something you didnt order.

I have had many dealings with some companies in the stunt industry who say 1-2 weeks and it take 1 - 2 months sometimes even 6 months to get the product. I get exactly what I requested though. Now knowing this when I order this type of product I order it early.

You might think of giving them another chance. Knowing what happened this time you can be straight with them and maybe get a more real lead time but I think they were right in what they did as far as your order goes, just not the communication.

No Doug, they did not do the right thing. They told me when I first called them that they could supply me with the density balsa that I ordered and that they would ship it to me in two weeks. They didn't fill the order or call me. This is just terrible service and I wanted everyone here to know about it!

Bob Hunt