Monday, 12 May 2008 the Web Version of the May/June 2008 issue of Stunt News will be on the PAMPA Website for download for PAMPA members exclusively. www.control-line.org
Tom McClain
May/June Issue of Stunt News Online Monday May12, 2008
Stuka Stunt Main Forum · 36 of 36 known posts recovered
Gil,
The May/June 2008 Issue is being printed and assembled as we write. It should be in the Mail by Thursday, May 22, 2008 and in your mailbox 4 days later.
But, until then enjoy the full color web version.
The May/June 2008 Issue is being printed and assembled as we write. It should be in the Mail by Thursday, May 22, 2008 and in your mailbox 4 days later.
But, until then enjoy the full color web version.
Tom McClain
Tom,
I have found that the PAMPA directory is among the most valuable items offered. I used it when I traveled for a living, and had a friend in every location just by opening it up. I still use my old copies several times a week, particularly when people ask me if there is someone to fly with where they have moved to, or if they are returning to the hobby.
I always recommend PAMPA and have mentioned the Membership Directory as a wonderful selling point. I also include a membership application in my kits.
People can not always go on line to get names, addresses or telephone numbers.
This year I am getting the CD version.
Is the printed PAMPA directory a thing of the past? If so, we have lost a valuable tool.
I have found that the PAMPA directory is among the most valuable items offered. I used it when I traveled for a living, and had a friend in every location just by opening it up. I still use my old copies several times a week, particularly when people ask me if there is someone to fly with where they have moved to, or if they are returning to the hobby.
I always recommend PAMPA and have mentioned the Membership Directory as a wonderful selling point. I also include a membership application in my kits.
People can not always go on line to get names, addresses or telephone numbers.
This year I am getting the CD version.
Is the printed PAMPA directory a thing of the past? If so, we have lost a valuable tool.
Tom N
Tom,
The Membership Reference Manual will be out with the Jul/Aug 2008 Issue of Stunt News. The Secretary/Treasurer and President have directed that it be delayed by one issue to allow tardy renewals and late new signups to be incorporated into the directory.
No, it is not a thing of the past.
The Membership Reference Manual will be out with the Jul/Aug 2008 Issue of Stunt News. The Secretary/Treasurer and President have directed that it be delayed by one issue to allow tardy renewals and late new signups to be incorporated into the directory.
No, it is not a thing of the past.
Tom McClain
Tue May-13-08 08:22 PM by Brett Buck
I am sure my legion of fan(s) noticed that my VP column was missing from the latest SN. Seems that Tom and I got our wires crossed a little bit, no big problem. But since it was a tribute, I figure I will post it here, too.
Bill was literally one of my favorite people in the world. I don't say that lightly.
*************************************************************
VP Column June/July 2008
Brett Buck
972 Henderson Ave. #4
Sunnyvale, CA, 94086
[email protected]
(408) 246-8173
Bill Fitzgerald
Bill Fitzgerald died February 24th. He went peacefully after seeing his children and grandchildren earlier in the day. He had been suffering from progressive aphasia and dementia for a few years now, as far as I can tell, it was idiopathic (they didn’t know the cause).
I had known Bill for 25 years - essentially the entire time I have lived in California. I knew he was having problems, but was not aware that they were life-threatening. As such, this came as quite a shock.
I’ll say this right up front- Bill and I spent a tremendous amount of time together over the years, and he was one of my favorite people in the world. I have lost something with his passing - but not as much as I have gained by having known him
Bill the Silent Partner
Whether it’s generally understood, or not, Bill had a tremendous influence on this event. He and Ted Fancher were the core of the “west coast”/Northern California group. From the early 70’s on, this group, has had, for better or worse (depending on your point of view), a tremendous influence on stunt design, judging, and the running of contests. Bill, although he was never one to seek the spotlight or go out of his way to get recognition, played a big part.
Some of the rest of this is second-hand, or simply my own personal experience but please indulge me.
Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure
Bill and Ted met and began flying models together in the Early 70’s. Ted of course had been flying since the late 50s and Bill had also flown many events back in his youth. They were both working for United at the time. Bill had been a United line mechanic before becoming a pilot and was a very “linear” thinker when it came to making airplanes. Ted had what you might call an “artists” approach to the problem.
Bill and Ted would frequently build together and I get the distinct impression that they challenged each other’s tolerance from time to time. Bill would reportedly take all day to drill one hole. But it would be a perfectly round, perfectly placed hole. Ted tells of the three drill bits he owned at the time - big, little and bent (for the sizes in between). Another thing they ended up doing in the early years was picking the best possible adhesive. Turned out they had somehow come to the conclusion that polyester resin (the stinky stuff used as the adhesive for fiberglass layups). That was Bill and Ted thinking “out of the box”
Bill was a *master craftsman*. It took forever but when it was done, by God, it was perfect. He took Monokote to a new level. His “Gypsy” still hangs on the basement wall, and the Monokote looks like a brand new, perfectly executed, car paint finish.
Bill and Ted also invented “high-rev/low pitch” - and never realized it! Bill told me the story on the way back from the Northwest Regionals one time.
WAM used to (actually still does) run Stunt in engine size classes like the other events - A/B/C/D, etc. It you wanted to win the overall championship, you needed to enter at least some of other engine class sizes. Everybody had a BC plane, but you needed at least an A plane as well to score maximum points in the overall championship.
So, they took a straightforward approach. A SIG Banshee flies pretty well, so get the strongest 19 available and stick it on there. That would be a Veco 19bb. If you put a 9-6 on it and crank it up, it’s too fast. So how about a 10-4? That slowed it up nicely, sounded like a sewing machine/jet turbine, not like the chugging 4-2 break McCoys they flew in their “real” airplanes. In fact it was very easy to fly, even easier than the “real” airplane. The light bulb didn’t go on, however, until Bob Hunt and later Paul Walker demonstrated tuned pipe engines performance - 15 years later! As soon as I heard their story, I went out the next day and bought a 20FP and stuck it on my Skyray 35 in place of the Fox 35. Physics hadn’t changed since 1973, I found.
I’ll let Ted tell the story of how much Bill contributed to the “Imitation” article - but it was extremely influential, whether it is acknowledged or not. The mathematical analysis approach displayed looks a lot like a Bill thing, to me.
Bill was a very good Pilot
I only saw Bill fly stunt a few times. Ted said that he, Bill, and Gary McClellan were in the same ballpark as far as skills go. Obviously that’s a little self-deprecating on Ted’s part. But the few times I saw Bill fly - with no practice for years - made it clear that he knew what he was doing at the handle, and with a little practice he would be quite competitive. Given that his mind, and David’s, are pretty much carbon copies of each other, I wouldn’t have like to have to go up against him in a contest.
Bill the Coach
Of course, Bill was also Ted’s coach throughout Ted’s remarkable career. Later he also coached for David and I. He was just as much of a perfectionist at that as he was at anything else. And he hardly ever got emotionally wound up in it - he’d say what you did wrong but not how stupid you were for having done it. He was generally a man of few words, but whenever he coached me, early on, he had plenty to say. He taught me how to coach, as well, and that has served me quite well.
Bill As a Judge
In later years of course Bill judged at the NATs and many other local contests. After having coached with him for years, judging with him was a snap. He was a WORLD-CLASS judge - never too prone to ballooning, never showing the slightest bias towards or against anyone. Just like metronome, he would click off flight after flight with the same criteria and very consistent scores. Even when some of his other faculties had clearly begun to degenerate (ability to communicate, particularly) he still held in there with consistent and accurate scoring.
Of course, at the NATS, Bill rarely if ever got a chance to judge the big boys on Friday and Saturday. Not because he would have shown favoritism, but because with Ted, David, and occasionally myself, he would have been mercilessly attacked for it (by those small-minded few who make it their life’s work to make public spectacles of themselves). So he was almost always “stuck” in Advanced. Some people don’t like that, but Bill never complained or said a word about it. He was there to judge, and it didn’t matter to him which class it was.
Bill‘s last event as a Judge was at the 2005 NATS and it was clear to me that it was becoming a physical challenge for him. As luck would have it, that was the year I crashed out and ended up judging Advanced. We did a few warm-up flights and it was one of my proudest moments to find, afterwards, that I had tracked Bill almost 1:1 for two entire flights.
Bill And David
The only time I ever saw Bill significantly emotional was when it came to David. Obviously, he was as proud as he could be when David started having success. But occasionally you could see flashes of the usual Father/Son thing going on. At the ’94 NATs, David looked like he was going to make his first Top 5. Then on one flight, he flew past about 20 feet on his wingover pull-up - something that he had been doing on and off all week, and had been getting coaching on. Well he missed by a gnat’s *ss. For the next 3 days, Bill would mention that fact about every 10 minutes. Eventually David got tired of hearing it. If it had been Ted or I, it would have been a pretty mild reaction. With Bill, you could tell it had gotten under his skin a bit.
Bill in Restaurants
Bill was the terror of waitresses throughout the US (and probably every other country he visited, as well). I can’t even remember the details, but he always had some sort of special request, and it never really got done correctly, and he would point it out. I can remember sitting around in semi-mock embarrassment and telling the waitress that I didn’t know these guys, I was just a hitchhiker they picked up! Bill (and others) had a multi-year running disagreement with the ladies at the Executive Inn restaurant in Vincennes, Indiana (near the mid-America Air Center where several NATS were held). Come in from a long day at the field, and you want to re-hydrate. So you ask for a pitcher of water at the table so you don’t have to keep asking for refills. Apparently that’s against one of the (numerous) rules. That doesn’t stop you from asking - over and over and over again.
Near as I can tell, no matter how times this happened, no one ever really got angry with him. He was obviously so innocent about it that they just got exasperated.
Bill’s sense of humor
Bill was not what you would call a brilliant comedian. He was just too straightforward and too much of a straight arrow to be a world-class smart-alec (like myself). But he was *very* easy to get a laugh out of. And you could hear it from anywhere on the field. He was a great audience.
One Last Time
The last time I talked to Bill was at the presentation of Arlie Prezler’s PAMPA award. All the old crew was there - Bill, Gary, Arlie, Lanny, Ted; the usual suspects. This was shortly before the 2006 NATs. This was obviously going to be a big opportunity for someone new to win (with the “big guns off to the W/C). The last thing Bill said to me was “No matter what happens, don’t let XXXXX beat you!” (name redacted in the name of harmony). Well, Bill, mission accomplished.
The next time I saw him (the last time) he wasn’t really able to talk. But he was still fully up to speed otherwise. He grabbed my hand and gave it a big squeeze. I knew what he meant.
I am sure my legion of fan(s) noticed that my VP column was missing from the latest SN. Seems that Tom and I got our wires crossed a little bit, no big problem. But since it was a tribute, I figure I will post it here, too.
Bill was literally one of my favorite people in the world. I don't say that lightly.
*************************************************************
VP Column June/July 2008
Brett Buck
972 Henderson Ave. #4
Sunnyvale, CA, 94086
[email protected]
(408) 246-8173
Bill Fitzgerald
Bill Fitzgerald died February 24th. He went peacefully after seeing his children and grandchildren earlier in the day. He had been suffering from progressive aphasia and dementia for a few years now, as far as I can tell, it was idiopathic (they didn’t know the cause).
I had known Bill for 25 years - essentially the entire time I have lived in California. I knew he was having problems, but was not aware that they were life-threatening. As such, this came as quite a shock.
I’ll say this right up front- Bill and I spent a tremendous amount of time together over the years, and he was one of my favorite people in the world. I have lost something with his passing - but not as much as I have gained by having known him
Bill the Silent Partner
Whether it’s generally understood, or not, Bill had a tremendous influence on this event. He and Ted Fancher were the core of the “west coast”/Northern California group. From the early 70’s on, this group, has had, for better or worse (depending on your point of view), a tremendous influence on stunt design, judging, and the running of contests. Bill, although he was never one to seek the spotlight or go out of his way to get recognition, played a big part.
Some of the rest of this is second-hand, or simply my own personal experience but please indulge me.
Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure
Bill and Ted met and began flying models together in the Early 70’s. Ted of course had been flying since the late 50s and Bill had also flown many events back in his youth. They were both working for United at the time. Bill had been a United line mechanic before becoming a pilot and was a very “linear” thinker when it came to making airplanes. Ted had what you might call an “artists” approach to the problem.
Bill and Ted would frequently build together and I get the distinct impression that they challenged each other’s tolerance from time to time. Bill would reportedly take all day to drill one hole. But it would be a perfectly round, perfectly placed hole. Ted tells of the three drill bits he owned at the time - big, little and bent (for the sizes in between). Another thing they ended up doing in the early years was picking the best possible adhesive. Turned out they had somehow come to the conclusion that polyester resin (the stinky stuff used as the adhesive for fiberglass layups). That was Bill and Ted thinking “out of the box”
Bill was a *master craftsman*. It took forever but when it was done, by God, it was perfect. He took Monokote to a new level. His “Gypsy” still hangs on the basement wall, and the Monokote looks like a brand new, perfectly executed, car paint finish.
Bill and Ted also invented “high-rev/low pitch” - and never realized it! Bill told me the story on the way back from the Northwest Regionals one time.
WAM used to (actually still does) run Stunt in engine size classes like the other events - A/B/C/D, etc. It you wanted to win the overall championship, you needed to enter at least some of other engine class sizes. Everybody had a BC plane, but you needed at least an A plane as well to score maximum points in the overall championship.
So, they took a straightforward approach. A SIG Banshee flies pretty well, so get the strongest 19 available and stick it on there. That would be a Veco 19bb. If you put a 9-6 on it and crank it up, it’s too fast. So how about a 10-4? That slowed it up nicely, sounded like a sewing machine/jet turbine, not like the chugging 4-2 break McCoys they flew in their “real” airplanes. In fact it was very easy to fly, even easier than the “real” airplane. The light bulb didn’t go on, however, until Bob Hunt and later Paul Walker demonstrated tuned pipe engines performance - 15 years later! As soon as I heard their story, I went out the next day and bought a 20FP and stuck it on my Skyray 35 in place of the Fox 35. Physics hadn’t changed since 1973, I found.
I’ll let Ted tell the story of how much Bill contributed to the “Imitation” article - but it was extremely influential, whether it is acknowledged or not. The mathematical analysis approach displayed looks a lot like a Bill thing, to me.
Bill was a very good Pilot
I only saw Bill fly stunt a few times. Ted said that he, Bill, and Gary McClellan were in the same ballpark as far as skills go. Obviously that’s a little self-deprecating on Ted’s part. But the few times I saw Bill fly - with no practice for years - made it clear that he knew what he was doing at the handle, and with a little practice he would be quite competitive. Given that his mind, and David’s, are pretty much carbon copies of each other, I wouldn’t have like to have to go up against him in a contest.
Bill the Coach
Of course, Bill was also Ted’s coach throughout Ted’s remarkable career. Later he also coached for David and I. He was just as much of a perfectionist at that as he was at anything else. And he hardly ever got emotionally wound up in it - he’d say what you did wrong but not how stupid you were for having done it. He was generally a man of few words, but whenever he coached me, early on, he had plenty to say. He taught me how to coach, as well, and that has served me quite well.
Bill As a Judge
In later years of course Bill judged at the NATs and many other local contests. After having coached with him for years, judging with him was a snap. He was a WORLD-CLASS judge - never too prone to ballooning, never showing the slightest bias towards or against anyone. Just like metronome, he would click off flight after flight with the same criteria and very consistent scores. Even when some of his other faculties had clearly begun to degenerate (ability to communicate, particularly) he still held in there with consistent and accurate scoring.
Of course, at the NATS, Bill rarely if ever got a chance to judge the big boys on Friday and Saturday. Not because he would have shown favoritism, but because with Ted, David, and occasionally myself, he would have been mercilessly attacked for it (by those small-minded few who make it their life’s work to make public spectacles of themselves). So he was almost always “stuck” in Advanced. Some people don’t like that, but Bill never complained or said a word about it. He was there to judge, and it didn’t matter to him which class it was.
Bill‘s last event as a Judge was at the 2005 NATS and it was clear to me that it was becoming a physical challenge for him. As luck would have it, that was the year I crashed out and ended up judging Advanced. We did a few warm-up flights and it was one of my proudest moments to find, afterwards, that I had tracked Bill almost 1:1 for two entire flights.
Bill And David
The only time I ever saw Bill significantly emotional was when it came to David. Obviously, he was as proud as he could be when David started having success. But occasionally you could see flashes of the usual Father/Son thing going on. At the ’94 NATs, David looked like he was going to make his first Top 5. Then on one flight, he flew past about 20 feet on his wingover pull-up - something that he had been doing on and off all week, and had been getting coaching on. Well he missed by a gnat’s *ss. For the next 3 days, Bill would mention that fact about every 10 minutes. Eventually David got tired of hearing it. If it had been Ted or I, it would have been a pretty mild reaction. With Bill, you could tell it had gotten under his skin a bit.
Bill in Restaurants
Bill was the terror of waitresses throughout the US (and probably every other country he visited, as well). I can’t even remember the details, but he always had some sort of special request, and it never really got done correctly, and he would point it out. I can remember sitting around in semi-mock embarrassment and telling the waitress that I didn’t know these guys, I was just a hitchhiker they picked up! Bill (and others) had a multi-year running disagreement with the ladies at the Executive Inn restaurant in Vincennes, Indiana (near the mid-America Air Center where several NATS were held). Come in from a long day at the field, and you want to re-hydrate. So you ask for a pitcher of water at the table so you don’t have to keep asking for refills. Apparently that’s against one of the (numerous) rules. That doesn’t stop you from asking - over and over and over again.
Near as I can tell, no matter how times this happened, no one ever really got angry with him. He was obviously so innocent about it that they just got exasperated.
Bill’s sense of humor
Bill was not what you would call a brilliant comedian. He was just too straightforward and too much of a straight arrow to be a world-class smart-alec (like myself). But he was *very* easy to get a laugh out of. And you could hear it from anywhere on the field. He was a great audience.
One Last Time
The last time I talked to Bill was at the presentation of Arlie Prezler’s PAMPA award. All the old crew was there - Bill, Gary, Arlie, Lanny, Ted; the usual suspects. This was shortly before the 2006 NATs. This was obviously going to be a big opportunity for someone new to win (with the “big guns off to the W/C). The last thing Bill said to me was “No matter what happens, don’t let XXXXX beat you!” (name redacted in the name of harmony). Well, Bill, mission accomplished.
The next time I saw him (the last time) he wasn’t really able to talk. But he was still fully up to speed otherwise. He grabbed my hand and gave it a big squeeze. I knew what he meant.
Tom McClain
I would like to be able to log on to the Pampa Site. Seems that is no longer an option for me. Perhaps I forgot my password but the email forwarding of passwords is not working thus I am getting no where.
Mike Foley
Brett Buck · May 21, 2008 11:37 PM
#8 source> I would like to be able to log on to the Pampa Site. Seems
>that is no longer an option for me. Perhaps I forgot my
>password but the email forwarding of passwords is not working
>thus I am getting no where.
You logged on last at 5/20/08 at 6:33 pm. If you think you tried then, and failed, I strongly suspect that you have security settings set to reject all cookies.
Either Bob or I can reset your password if it's still not working.
Brett
>that is no longer an option for me. Perhaps I forgot my
>password but the email forwarding of passwords is not working
>thus I am getting no where.
You logged on last at 5/20/08 at 6:33 pm. If you think you tried then, and failed, I strongly suspect that you have security settings set to reject all cookies.
Either Bob or I can reset your password if it's still not working.
Brett
I am able to log on now. Bob forwarded me a new password. For some reason though I am not able to receive my password forwarding from the Pampa site. Oh well, I am now good to go and have updated my profile to reflect my new password. Hopefully I wont forget it this time. As the doctor told me awhile back, welcome to middle age
Mike Foley
Brett Buck · May 22, 2008 10:35 PM
#10 source> I am able to log on now. Bob forwarded me a new password.
>For some reason though I am not able to receive my password
>forwarding from the Pampa site.
That's interesting, I wonder if there is a block for our domain on the MSN server.
Brett
>For some reason though I am not able to receive my password
>forwarding from the Pampa site.
That's interesting, I wonder if there is a block for our domain on the MSN server.
Brett
>>That's interesting, I wonder if there is a block for our domain on the MSN server<<
I have retrieved my password from the Pampa site in the past. Probably several months ago. Perhaps when I renewed my Pampa membership for this year my email address was not translated correctly. I have had my current email address since 1995 so I am somewhat baffled
I have retrieved my password from the Pampa site in the past. Probably several months ago. Perhaps when I renewed my Pampa membership for this year my email address was not translated correctly. I have had my current email address since 1995 so I am somewhat baffled
Mike Foley
How many people are left in PAMPA ?
Seams like weighting 1/2 the year is hoping beyond hope for members that you lost. Just me or dost the Emperor have no clothes ?
Seams like weighting 1/2 the year is hoping beyond hope for members that you lost. Just me or dost the Emperor have no clothes ?
Greg Howie
> How many people are left in PAMPA ?
>
> Seams like weighting 1/2 the year is hoping beyond hope for
>members that you lost. Just me or dost the Emperor have no
>clothes ?
Uh, what are you talking about?
Brett
p.s. now I get it, you weren't responding to my post about access and passwords, but the original discussion about membership manuals. I don't have the numbers in front of me but as I recall we were around what I predicted given the cost increases. I suppose you will believe that we are trying to cover something up, and I also assume no matter what I say in rebuttal you will not believe it anyway, so I won't bother.
In the spirit of full disclosure I would note that the "membership count" on the PAMPA website is probably not correct. I believe the underlying software counts user accounts without regard to whether or not the account is "authorized" and we have intentionally been keeping account information from users who have not renewed based partly on a recommendation from our former webmaster Steve Yampolsky and partly to minimize the number of problems like the one Mike is having.
It's not a high priority to fix but be advised that the count *is not* 1344 members, or what it reads now, it's less. It was last right sometime last year when the unauthorized accounts were deleted (which is an easy one-click operation but can have some side effects).
bb
>
> Seams like weighting 1/2 the year is hoping beyond hope for
>members that you lost. Just me or dost the Emperor have no
>clothes ?
Uh, what are you talking about?
Brett
p.s. now I get it, you weren't responding to my post about access and passwords, but the original discussion about membership manuals. I don't have the numbers in front of me but as I recall we were around what I predicted given the cost increases. I suppose you will believe that we are trying to cover something up, and I also assume no matter what I say in rebuttal you will not believe it anyway, so I won't bother.
In the spirit of full disclosure I would note that the "membership count" on the PAMPA website is probably not correct. I believe the underlying software counts user accounts without regard to whether or not the account is "authorized" and we have intentionally been keeping account information from users who have not renewed based partly on a recommendation from our former webmaster Steve Yampolsky and partly to minimize the number of problems like the one Mike is having.
It's not a high priority to fix but be advised that the count *is not* 1344 members, or what it reads now, it's less. It was last right sometime last year when the unauthorized accounts were deleted (which is an easy one-click operation but can have some side effects).
bb
>> How many people are left in PAMPA ?
>>
>> Seams like weighting 1/2 the year is hoping beyond hope
>for
>>members that you lost. Just me or dost the Emperor have
>no
>>clothes ?
>
> Uh, what are you talking about?
>
> Brett
>
"Nonsense" is a apt description, I believe.
>>
>> Seams like weighting 1/2 the year is hoping beyond hope
>for
>>members that you lost. Just me or dost the Emperor have
>no
>>clothes ?
>
> Uh, what are you talking about?
>
> Brett
>
"Nonsense" is a apt description, I believe.
cwmcmillin · May 23, 2008 03:57 PM
#15 sourceBrett,
Nice letter about Bill.
ei; PAMPA membership. Looks pretty steady and robust.
Chris...
Nice letter about Bill.
ei; PAMPA membership. Looks pretty steady and robust.
Chris...
Chris McMillin
>Brett,
>Nice letter about Bill.
Thanks - I absolutely loved the guy, and his death affected me greatly.
>
>ei; PAMPA membership. Looks pretty steady and robust.
>
I think we are doing pretty well given the very significant cost increase, but I don't want to overstate it - we are significantly down in membership from last year. I think we are around 900 at this point, which puts us around 150 or so underneath last years usual "sawtooth" that the membership undergoes during a year.
Rest assured (as mentioned in Bill's Pres. column) we are working to reduce costs and to provide lower-cost membership options. Cost of membership is virtually the ONLY reason that people have given for not renewing. That's pretty much as expected - while I think we are putting out a pretty good product through the efforts of Tom and staff, and the contributers, when push comes to shove, $50 is a lot of money and $35 is a lot of money for a CD - particularly when it's an optional expense. Foreign costs are astronomical due to the shipping, and foreign membership has taken a very significant hit as a result - I think less than half from last year which accounts for the majority of the loss. All this is just ballpark, of course.
We have had some excellent ideas from all quarters on our options and I hope we will be able to implement these very soon. It's being aggressively worked right now.
Brett
>Nice letter about Bill.
Thanks - I absolutely loved the guy, and his death affected me greatly.
>
>ei; PAMPA membership. Looks pretty steady and robust.
>
I think we are doing pretty well given the very significant cost increase, but I don't want to overstate it - we are significantly down in membership from last year. I think we are around 900 at this point, which puts us around 150 or so underneath last years usual "sawtooth" that the membership undergoes during a year.
Rest assured (as mentioned in Bill's Pres. column) we are working to reduce costs and to provide lower-cost membership options. Cost of membership is virtually the ONLY reason that people have given for not renewing. That's pretty much as expected - while I think we are putting out a pretty good product through the efforts of Tom and staff, and the contributers, when push comes to shove, $50 is a lot of money and $35 is a lot of money for a CD - particularly when it's an optional expense. Foreign costs are astronomical due to the shipping, and foreign membership has taken a very significant hit as a result - I think less than half from last year which accounts for the majority of the loss. All this is just ballpark, of course.
We have had some excellent ideas from all quarters on our options and I hope we will be able to implement these very soon. It's being aggressively worked right now.
Brett
David Hoover · May 24, 2008 02:40 PM
#18 sourceBeing able to download Stunt news from the PAMPA website is a Godsend to we 'ferengi' members. I opted for the CD this year and the CD of the March/April issue still hasn't figured out how to get north of the Great Lakes. But no problem, both March/April and May/June issues are snugly nestled on my hard drive now. This is living!
With the availabilty of Stunt News in ths manner, I'd be surprised if foreign membership doesn't rebound at least some in 2009.
Best, Hoovie
Life is simple. Eat. Sleep. Fly
With the availabilty of Stunt News in ths manner, I'd be surprised if foreign membership doesn't rebound at least some in 2009.
Best, Hoovie
Life is simple. Eat. Sleep. Fly
>Being able to download Stunt news from the PAMPA website is a
>Godsend to we 'ferengi' members. I opted for the CD this year
>and the CD of the March/April issue still hasn't figured out
>how to get north of the Great Lakes. But no problem, both
>March/April and May/June issues are snugly nestled on my hard
>drive now. This is living!
>
>With the availabilty of Stunt News in ths manner, I'd be
>surprised if foreign membership doesn't rebound at least some
>in 2009.
Glad you like it. There were a few challenges involved in finding the right balance of resolution, file size, and getting around some of the limitations of the software. Just a cursory look at the download log shows that the percentage of non US members taking advantage of having SN on line is much higher than US members. About 150 members have downloaded the May-June 2008 SN.
If you have some good ideas about improving the web site, please drop me a line.
V/r
Bob
>Godsend to we 'ferengi' members. I opted for the CD this year
>and the CD of the March/April issue still hasn't figured out
>how to get north of the Great Lakes. But no problem, both
>March/April and May/June issues are snugly nestled on my hard
>drive now. This is living!
>
>With the availabilty of Stunt News in ths manner, I'd be
>surprised if foreign membership doesn't rebound at least some
>in 2009.
Glad you like it. There were a few challenges involved in finding the right balance of resolution, file size, and getting around some of the limitations of the software. Just a cursory look at the download log shows that the percentage of non US members taking advantage of having SN on line is much higher than US members. About 150 members have downloaded the May-June 2008 SN.
If you have some good ideas about improving the web site, please drop me a line.
V/r
Bob
Brett Buck · May 25, 2008 11:47 PM
#24 source>Being able to download Stunt news from the PAMPA website is a
>Godsend to we 'ferengi' members. I opted for the CD this year
>and the CD of the March/April issue still hasn't figured out
>how to get north of the Great Lakes. But no problem, both
>March/April and May/June issues are snugly nestled on my hard
>drive now. This is living!
>
>With the availabilty of Stunt News in ths manner, I'd be
>surprised if foreign membership doesn't rebound at least some
>in 2009.
I certainly think so. I certainly wouldn't begrudge anyone making a decision to drop their membership, but unfortunately until we get other options in place we had to do the best we could do.
There are a lot wheels turning right now and we are all committed to making the "bang for the buck" as good as we can.
Brett
>Godsend to we 'ferengi' members. I opted for the CD this year
>and the CD of the March/April issue still hasn't figured out
>how to get north of the Great Lakes. But no problem, both
>March/April and May/June issues are snugly nestled on my hard
>drive now. This is living!
>
>With the availabilty of Stunt News in ths manner, I'd be
>surprised if foreign membership doesn't rebound at least some
>in 2009.
I certainly think so. I certainly wouldn't begrudge anyone making a decision to drop their membership, but unfortunately until we get other options in place we had to do the best we could do.
There are a lot wheels turning right now and we are all committed to making the "bang for the buck" as good as we can.
Brett
Greg,
Perhaps you might like to update your figures for 2008.
As of eight days ago the numbers were:
US - 714
OS - 141
Total 855
Given the upheavals of the past six months--postage increases, printer quitting without notice and renewals delayed because of that--membership levels could easily be much worse.
Randi
Perhaps you might like to update your figures for 2008.
As of eight days ago the numbers were:
US - 714
OS - 141
Total 855
Given the upheavals of the past six months--postage increases, printer quitting without notice and renewals delayed because of that--membership levels could easily be much worse.
Randi
> What is your solution to the situation? Are you going to run
>for office and put in endless hours of free labor?
> Somehow I doubt it.
Yes Greg, and your absence from PAMPA is most conspicuously noted.
Now, this thread will go back on to it original intent. You are strongly advised not to hijack it again. If you want to bash the hard work going on within PAMPA, by all means, take it to Stunthangar and see how far you will get.
V/r
Bob
This sounds like a gratuitous slam against StuntHangar.
Although I don' always (?) agree with Bob Storick, but he really does try to keep things on the forum politically neutral. Even with PAMPA.
My 2 cents.
Although I don' always (?) agree with Bob Storick, but he really does try to keep things on the forum politically neutral. Even with PAMPA.
My 2 cents.
Alan
Brett Buck · May 28, 2008 09:49 PM
#26 source>This sounds like a gratuitous slam against StuntHangar.
>Although I don' always (?) agree with Bob Storick, but he
>really does try to keep things on the forum politically
>neutral. Even with PAMPA.
I don't see it as a slam, Sparky would delete it as quickly as Bob and Leonard, I expect, and Bob knows that.
Stunthangar is definitely NOT UHP.
Brett
>Although I don' always (?) agree with Bob Storick, but he
>really does try to keep things on the forum politically
>neutral. Even with PAMPA.
I don't see it as a slam, Sparky would delete it as quickly as Bob and Leonard, I expect, and Bob knows that.
Stunthangar is definitely NOT UHP.
Brett
>This sounds like a gratuitous slam against StuntHangar.
>Although I don' always (?) agree with Bob Storick, but he
>really does try to keep things on the forum politically
>neutral. Even with PAMPA.
>
>My 2 cents.
Alan;
No, it is not a slam at all.
The point of the discussion was that the hijacking of the original theme of the topic was over. If they thought I was being unfair, try posting their theme over on Stunt Hangar and see how far they get. Robert Storick has a zero tolerance policy of those who bring up PAMPA politics. Bring up on Stunt Hangar what was brought up here as the thread was hijacked will get you a vacation from his site. Here at SSW we have a zero tolerance policy on posts bad mouthing Sparkie, his site, or other sysadmins and their sites for that matter.
There is a lot of hard work down by volunteers in PAMPA - and their only payment is the satisfaction of seeing the job done to the best of their ability. Stunt News is a great example of that. Its not just the editor - but an amazing group effort of PAMPA members who contribute time and resources so that their fellow members have a useful and imformative publication every two months. I personally don't have much tolerance for those who are not PAMPA members that take the original thread announcing the latest issue of this labor of love is now available and turn it into their own soapbox for declining membership or anything else.
And so it shall remain.
Again, for those who want to hijack this thread to further their agenda of PAMPA bashing, you need to wrap your minds around the fact that it will not be tolerated here on SSW. If you find the need to voice your opinions, then do it elsewhere.
For those who thought I was insulting Bob Storick, nothing could be further from the truth. He runs a tight ship and provides another great venue for all of us to share. We are all the richer having Stunthangar available for us to access.
V/r
Bob
>Although I don' always (?) agree with Bob Storick, but he
>really does try to keep things on the forum politically
>neutral. Even with PAMPA.
>
>My 2 cents.
Alan;
No, it is not a slam at all.
The point of the discussion was that the hijacking of the original theme of the topic was over. If they thought I was being unfair, try posting their theme over on Stunt Hangar and see how far they get. Robert Storick has a zero tolerance policy of those who bring up PAMPA politics. Bring up on Stunt Hangar what was brought up here as the thread was hijacked will get you a vacation from his site. Here at SSW we have a zero tolerance policy on posts bad mouthing Sparkie, his site, or other sysadmins and their sites for that matter.
There is a lot of hard work down by volunteers in PAMPA - and their only payment is the satisfaction of seeing the job done to the best of their ability. Stunt News is a great example of that. Its not just the editor - but an amazing group effort of PAMPA members who contribute time and resources so that their fellow members have a useful and imformative publication every two months. I personally don't have much tolerance for those who are not PAMPA members that take the original thread announcing the latest issue of this labor of love is now available and turn it into their own soapbox for declining membership or anything else.
And so it shall remain.
Again, for those who want to hijack this thread to further their agenda of PAMPA bashing, you need to wrap your minds around the fact that it will not be tolerated here on SSW. If you find the need to voice your opinions, then do it elsewhere.
For those who thought I was insulting Bob Storick, nothing could be further from the truth. He runs a tight ship and provides another great venue for all of us to share. We are all the richer having Stunthangar available for us to access.
V/r
Bob
>For those who thought I was insulting Bob Storick, nothing
>could be further from the truth. He runs a tight ship and
>provides another great venue for all of us to share. We are
>all the richer having Stunthangar available for us to access.
>
>V/r
>
>Bob
Thanks for those defending Stunt Hangar. I read this and didn't think it was a slam and took it in the context it was meant to be taken in. However Roberta its Sparky not Sparkie?
All is well between the two forums and both are great venues to read. Keep up the good work Len and Bob.
>could be further from the truth. He runs a tight ship and
>provides another great venue for all of us to share. We are
>all the richer having Stunthangar available for us to access.
>
>V/r
>
>Bob
Thanks for those defending Stunt Hangar. I read this and didn't think it was a slam and took it in the context it was meant to be taken in. However Roberta its Sparky not Sparkie?
All is well between the two forums and both are great venues to read. Keep up the good work Len and Bob.
Robert Storick
AMA 12366
Saint Louis,MO.
My Web site
http://www.stunthangar.com/smf
http://www.breezpay.com
>
>Thanks for those defending Stunt Hangar. I read this and
>didn't think it was a slam and took it in the context it was
>meant to be taken in. However Roberta its Sparky not Sparkie?
Got it....
Bob
>Thanks for those defending Stunt Hangar. I read this and
>didn't think it was a slam and took it in the context it was
>meant to be taken in. However Roberta its Sparky not Sparkie?
Got it....
Bob
Just wondering if the printed copies where sent as said in post 2 ?? Haven't seen mine yet. Not worried just curious.
Leester
Lee,
The hardcopy went out on May 28-29, 2008. The First Class copies are there now along with the CDs, which are also First Class mail. Yours, which is bulk rate mail, can take up to 4 weeks to arrive. Talk to your local postmaster for more details.
The hardcopy went out on May 28-29, 2008. The First Class copies are there now along with the CDs, which are also First Class mail. Yours, which is bulk rate mail, can take up to 4 weeks to arrive. Talk to your local postmaster for more details.
Tom McClain
You say the first class and CD's are there now, but as you pointed out I have the bulk mailing. Has the bulk mailing been taken to the Rock Island PO ?? I only live 4 miles from RIPO and as my PO has said many times, IF they get it they deliver it.
Leester
Lee,
The sad thing about the USPS and Business Bulk mail is they consider it SPAM. They have 4 weeks to deliver it and they will use that as they see fit no matter what the distance. Sometimes they do it the next day, but most of the time, they do it when they get to it.
And yes, all of the SN copies and CDs were mailed at the same time.
The sad thing about the USPS and Business Bulk mail is they consider it SPAM. They have 4 weeks to deliver it and they will use that as they see fit no matter what the distance. Sometimes they do it the next day, but most of the time, they do it when they get to it.
And yes, all of the SN copies and CDs were mailed at the same time.
Tom McClain
Well Good news the PO's where on the ball as I received my bulk rate SN. Thanks to everyone.
Leester
My post office, here in Phoenix, told me the same thing as Tom was told, 4 weeks. Thats why I opted for first class.
Walter
Walter
I suspect my subscription is also bulk rate. How do I change it to First Class?
Clint
Worlds Greatest stunt pilot in Marysville, CA
Worlds Greatest stunt pilot in Marysville, CA
Received my Stunt News CD yesterday here in SE Washington state. Thanks to all who have volunteered their time in putting this together
Mike Foley