Electric C/L durability

How durable is the electric motor and components? While a major crash can damage the best of engines I would like to have an idea as to damage resulting from lets say at crash at takeoff not to high off the field. I am considering electric C/L as my wife has problems associated with certain smells and fuel, gasoline, glue are some of the culprits. While there is no guarantee in this answer someone will have an opinion as to durabilty. Appreciate the assistance.

Tigerman. Most electric motors have propellor shafts that are pretty small diameter. A serious crash could bend the motor shaft, and would require replacement of a major part of the motor.

Just as serious is a crash which jams the motor shaft. A "stalled rotor" condition draws a very large current from the battery. This can result in a fire, or at least melted wiring and a burned-up motor.

While we cannot prevent crashes (!) it is wise to include a fuse in the battery circuit to break the circuit in case of a stalled-rotor condition.

Some small motors feature a rubber O-Ring prop fastener, which allows the prop to flex with a crash. Folding props are also used.


Floyd in OR

Thanks for the information. Will keep these facts in mind if and when I decide on electric C/L. Will probably do one then figure if it is cost effective to keep up with it.

Most of the outrunner motors allow fairly easy replacement of the shaft. And as you get into the larger ones, you can get into 5mm shafts, which are pretty robust.

But yes, a fuse would be a good idea. My first RC electric I burned up a PJS 1000 by not reducing the throttle after a crash. Too much time with IC engines that stop running and don't need to be pulled to cutoff after a crash.

Having flown some (and a few smackdowns), the electric motor is more susceptible to damage from a crash. A glow engine is much more robust.

On the other hand, I wouldn't worry quite as much as Floyd about the soft-type crashes. All modern Speed Controls will cut off the power if the motor stalls. I enclose a photo of what happens when your prop strikes the ground when you hit a bump on take-off. The moral here is to use a smaller diameter prop! In my case, the weakest link was the my motor mount--I use two 3/8" sticks of pretty hard balsa glued to the fire wall, and that to a plywood mount that the motor is mounted on. What breaks for me are these balsa strips. However the cowl does suffer collateral damage as the motor keeps twisting until the ESC finally shuts down---there is no fire, and in this case everything (except my pride) survived.


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Attachment #1, (jpg file)

What size plane is it and what are components used? Does the battery size determine what size plane it will fly? Could I use the same setup for a Ringmaster as I would for say a Veco Brave? Also, what are the components I will need?

That's an Arf Nobler.

This link has a list of my specs
http://www.clstunt.com/htdocs/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=306043&mesg_id=306043

Basically your power will depend on model weight and size (obviously they are related). With my Nobler, I need ~270 Watts to fly straight and level, peaking to 425 watts in the vertical maneuvers. It weighs 44 oz and flies 5.0s laps on 63 foot radius laps (includes from my feet to center of plane). I use a 12-6 Electric APC Prop at 8100 rpm. I have a You-tube link of a flight on the same thread given above.

I also have a Brodak Electric Super Clown. It flies level laps on about 180 watts, peaking to 310 Watts during the vertical. This plane weighs 29 oz including charged battery.

So you do see bigger requires more. The most sensitive item is the battery IMHO. The electric motor itself is pretty flexible, and I could probably fly both planes on the same motor, but would lose a little efficiency on the bigger plane with the smaller motor of the two.

>What size plane is it and what are components used? Does the
>battery size determine what size plane it will fly? Could I
>use the same setup for a Ringmaster as I would for say a Veco
>Brave? Also, what are the components I will need?

For a Ringmaster here is my set up.

Ringmaster conversion to electric:

I have completed a conversion of a Ringmaster to electric. The components I used are listed below. I purchased most of them from China because they are so much less expensive but documentation and specifications are meager or absent. I was able to get programming information for the ESC from the Internet. I have posted conversion information on other control line forums the Brotherhood of the Ring Forum for one: http://www.brotherhoodofthering.info. You may need to register on this forum to view those posts. It is a really nice flying plane.


Parts from: Hobbycity.com (China)

ITEM
GWS Electro prop 254x152 (10” x 6”) $0.80
HexTronic 2200 maH 3S 11.1 volt 20-30C Lipoly Battery $32.53
Deans Style T-Connectors 10 pairs $7.08
HXT 42-40A 1050kv 35A Brushless outrunner motor $29.78
TP W30A Brushless Speed Control $15.95
JB 1100 Digital Smart Lipo/NiM Balancing Battery Charger $39.95 (I would suggest a more powerful charger for faster recharging of the battery)
Subtotal $126.09
Shipping $28.61
Total $154.70

Parts from: BSD Micro RC (bsdmicrorc.com)
ITEM
JMP Control Line Timer $30.00
Subtotal $30.00
Shipping $4.05
Total $34.05

Parts for Conversion Grand Total $188.75

John Cralley
Scratch built but often re-kitted

Some of this is really quite disappointing.

I would be a **lot more** inclined to try an electric CL model if the price of a crash were an electric motor self-destructing at full power, the batteries erupting in a large fireball when the motor finally siezes up, the model being consumed in a blazing fire.

Alas, this seems not to be the case...

Dan

Gee Dan, I thought your's were the only ones that went up like that. I heard that your last crash of one of your Flite Streaks sent up a mushroom cloud over Seattle and Homeland Security was notified.
See you this weekend?
Alan

>Gee Dan, I thought your's were the only ones that went up
>like that. I heard that your last crash of one of your Flite
>Streaks sent up a mushroom cloud over Seattle and Homeland
>Security was notified.
>See you this weekend?


Make sure you salute his plane when you see it!

Electric power has come a long way but you will never see 500-800 flights on any setup. The cost of big good li-po battery is cost of good 2 cycle engine. Not to mention you need several packs/ plus cost of motor/ charger/ etc. A good friend of mine into electric gliders just lost part of finger and damage to other fingers when he hooked up his ship in his shop. Plus some months later had li-po fire from defective charger in his home. Beware of possible danger. This guy has alot of experience with electric flight.
Cheers,Dan

>Electric power has come a long way but you will never see
>500-800 flights on any setup. The cost of big good li-po
>battery is cost of good 2 cycle engine. Not to mention you
>need several packs/ plus cost of motor/ charger/ etc. A good
>friend of mine into electric gliders just lost part of finger
>and damage to other fingers when he hooked up his ship in his
>shop. Plus some months later had li-po fire from defective
>charger in his home. Beware of possible danger. This guy has
>alot of experience with electric flight.
>Cheers,Dan


I have 500+ on mine already.

What's the issue?

Before the price increase on fuel, in the RC heli world, the figures were about even per flight for electric and fuel. Remember, you buy the motor and a couple of packs, and you don't have to keep buying fuel.

A quality pack, treated right, will last 200 - 300 cycles. Treating them right is simple. Never discharge more than 80% of capacity, never draw more than 80% of max rated amps, and store at a storage charge of 50%.

I don't see Electric power going anywhere soon for the flying masses.

How do you translate what size motor is req'd for a given weight/ wing area and/ or battery requirements???

If the Electric power sys. manfr's. can't "sell" their products to Joe average flyer in an easy and understandable way it will become the hobby of a select few with electrical engineering degrees.
There is so much mis-information out there not to mention the marketing, sales hype and selection of motors and props and gear drives.

Issue is nobody had a house fire or shed fire from a two sroke engine!!
Dan

>I don't see Electric power going anywhere soon for the flying
>masses.
>
>How do you translate what size motor is req'd for a given
>weight/ wing area and/ or battery requirements???
>
>If the Electric power sys. manfr's. can't "sell"
>their products to Joe average flyer in an easy and
>understandable way it will become the hobby of a select few
>with electrical engineering degrees.
>There is so much mis-information out there not to mention the
>marketing, sales hype and selection of motors and props and
>gear drives.



Horizon Hobbies apparently agrees with you. Note the direct comparisons to glow engines and the reccomended weight/size aircraft for them.....

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFLM4025A

Mel D.

>Horizon Hobbies apparently agrees with you. Note the direct
>comparisons to glow engines and the reccomended weight/size
>aircraft for them.....
>
>http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFLM4025A
>
>Mel D.

Go look at Tower's site, it's a confusing mess of ratings, weights in ozs. or grams and maybe if your lucky, prop rec's. No standards. If these Hobby warehouses were smart they'd offer matched systems for .25-.40 size aircraft. Mtr/ batt/ controler.

Hey guys,
Check out maxxprod.com and look for the motor combos. His recommendations have been work well for us here at Sig. The only thing I have been chaging has been going a little smaller on prop load to gain some run time and ground clearance. I have been flying the Skyray 35 with both the COMBO 25 and the COMBO 30 and the Primary Force with the COMBO 30 and an APC10-7E prop.
Cheers
Bob

>Horizon Hobbies apparently agrees with you. Note the direct comparisons to glow engines and the reccomended weight/size aircraft for them.....


I'm sure their aircraft weight recommendations refer to RC models, which generally carry much heavier wing loadings. That combo shouldn't *cause* a model to weigh 88 oz.

>How do you translate what size motor is req'd for a given
>weight/ wing area and/ or battery requirements???

1 hp = 746 Watts. So the rated power of 550 watts equates to about .74 hp at a motor weight of just 7.6 oz.

SK

Guys,

E CL is becoming more user friendly as more poeple have given it a try. The set-ups that work for CL are posted on Stunthanger in the Amped Up forum and I think here also if you do a search. Slowly, brands and set-ups are starting to form up under certain size of planes, i.e. the AXI 2826/10 with the Castle Creation 45 ESP, Ztron Timer and Thunder Power 4200mah, 14.8V battery, 12x6 APC E prop is the basic 50 size used setup the Bob Hunt uses. There are others for 46 size ships such as the AXI 2820/8, CC 45 ESP, Ztron timer, MEC A123 4600mah 3s2p 10.2V battery, 11.5x5 APC E prop and several others including the Brodak package that works will in 35 size ships.

Granted you have to look a little but the information is available and soon will be know just like we know what engine/prop/fuel combo's with IC setups work for stunt and what works for combat. There are a number of advantages to electrics but the biggest is the quite operation and no mess (you can fly em in a suit and tie then go to church) giving you lots of flying field options and opportunity to get more practice in. Safey is also coming along and if you are concerned about the LiPo batteries you can use the A123 battery which has been selected by DeWalt and Black & Decker for their cordless commercial tools.

Cost is about the same as a top line IC set-up, difference is you are buying a couple years of fuel up front.

Best, Dennis

I am always amazed about the posts that claim it is too hard to pick out electric motors,and not perhaps for the obvious reason.

Why do people think it is easy to pick glow engines? If it weren't for the fact that someone else tried it out and said a few words, how would you know how a Aerotigre 36 compared to a Fox 35 or a Magnum 35 or a FP20???

It is the same with electric. There are a lot of posts showing what is working. An electric motor is actually a lot more flexible than a glow engine, and could fit several categories of plane sizes. The biggest issue in my book is the battery and what capacity and cell count to buy (and where to stuff it into the plane). And again if anyone has questions, all one need do is ask on this forum and I am sure someone will give a good answer.

>Some of this is really quite disappointing.
>
>I would be a **lot more** inclined to try an electric CL model
>if the price of a crash were an electric motor
>self-destructing at full power, the batteries erupting in a
>large fireball when the motor finally siezes up, the model
>being consumed in a blazing fire.
>
>Alas, this seems not to be the case...
>
>Dan
>

Well, not CL but RC.

This May we had a RC Aircombat contest here in Finland and one of the planes was electric. After a mild midair, it lost the wing and the fuselage came down nose first with high speed. The LiPo batteries shorted and first they burned and then the epoxy-GF fuselage burned together with the receiver and servos. As you see Dan, things can happen, if you try hard enough.

Regs, Jyrki

Tigerman, if you are interested in durability, get a setup built around the A123 cells. They are a couple ounces heavier for typical pack sizes, but nearly indestructible and don't catch fire. Each cell is sealed in an aluminum can.

Serge Krause has posted good info on a workable setup.

Phil-

'must have been someone else who posted the set-up. I haven't worked yet with electrics.

SK