Nats Stunt Results So Far

Here are Open results. This board removes spacing, so it's difficult to make columns come out right.

---------------------------Tuesday-------Wednesday----Qual. Total--Fraction of group leader
Place Contestant Round 1 Round 2 Round 1 Round 2
Q Brett Buck 562.67 566.67 561.00 565.67 1132.33
Q Matthew Neumann 559.67 565.67 555.00 564.00 1129.67
Q Howard Rush 552.00 556.33 550.00 563.67 1120.00
Q Bill Rutherford 545.67 542.00 531.00 547.67 1093.33
Q Robert McDonald 530.33 533.67 541.33 553.33 1087.00
Q Derek Barry 527.67 542.00 567.33 555.33 1109.33
Q Frank McMillan 517.33 540.67 560.00 551.67 1100.67
Q P. T. Granderson 521.00 520.00 526.67 554.33 1075.33
Q Kenny Stevens 515.33 517.67 554.33 552.00 1072.00
Q Alberto Haber 517.67 522.67 528.67 530.00 1052.67
Q Orestes Hernandez 556.33 560.00 560.33 560.67 1120.67
Q William Rich 543.00 543.67 554.00 549.00 1097.67
Q Mike Palko 542.67 542.00 550.33 549.33 1093.00
Q Josias Delgado 535.33 518.33 535.00 543.67 1079.00
Q Allen Goff 496.00 509.00 520.00 535.33 1044.33
Q Winfred Urtnowski 536.33 541.00 565.33 564.67 1106.33
Q Kenton Tysor 527.33 538.00 552.67 550.00 1090.67
Q Dan Banjock 227.67 529.33 554.67 560.67 1090.00
Q Randy Smith 536.33 534.00 539.67 551.67 1088.00
Q R Steven Moon 522.67 531.67 538.00 543.33 1075.00
21 Robert Storick 521.67 529.00 544.33 541.00 1073.33 .970
22 Keith Trostle 532.00 540.00 530.67 529.00 1070.67 .968
23 Gene Martine 511.33 535.33 534.67 522.33 1070.00 .967
24 Frank Williams 483.33 542.67 543.33 537.33 1086.00 .959
25 Jose Modesto 530.00 248.33 517.00 1047.00 .925
26 Larry Robertson 500.33 522.67 518.67 484.33 1041.33 .920
27 John Wright 497.00 501.33 509.67 528.67 1030.00 .919
28 Michael McHenry 409.33 485.67 527.00 524.00 1012.67 .913
29 Wesley Dick 492.33 505.33 517.67 507.67 1023.00 .903
30 Allen Brickhaus 471.33 488.00 491.00 513.00 1001.00 .902
31 David Trible 485.67 472.67 507.00 493.67 992.67 .895
32 James Lee 489.67 481.00 488.67 489.67 979.33 .874
33 John D'Ottavio 431.33 472.33 472.33 .421

Advanced:

Note that qualifiers are the top 5 from each of four circles. No, I'm not as good as Orestes.


--------------------------Tuesday----------Wednesday--Qual. Total--Fraction of group leader
Place Contestant Round 1 Round 2 Round 1 Round 2
Q Louis Rankin 518.00 523.00 516.67 1039.67
Q Johnny Paris 496.33 508.33 495.33 512.67 1021.00
Q Mike Greb 507.33 509.67 493.00 477.00 1002.67
Q Ronnie Thompson 471.00 484.33 471.00 471.33 955.67
Q R Lesley Byrd 451.00 470.00 468.33 446.00 938.33
Q Germanio Becerril 506.67 508.67 521.33 525.67 1034.33
Q Ryan Young 496.33 504.33 505.00 513.00 1017.33
Q Dennis Vander Kuur 477.33 481.33 510.00 492.67 991.33
Q Scott Reynolds 474.33 472.67 484.33 475.33 958.67
Q Crist Rigotti 204.67 455.67 476.00 481.33 937.00
Q Bud Wieder 485.33 515.67 519.00 513.00 1034.67
Q Richard Giacobone 493.00 499.33 499.67 530.67 1030.00
Q Mike Schmitt 466.33 485.33 420.67 488.67 974.00
Q Dale Gleason 486.33 484.33 475.33 487.00 973.33
Q Larry Lindburg 467.33 483.00 447.67 481.33 964.33
Q Paul Lagan 418.00 507.33 525.33 532.67 1040.00
Q Darrell Harvin 500.33 509.33 522.00 525.67 1035.00
Q Adrian Dominguez 490.67 505.00 512.67 524.00 1029.00
Q Roger Wildman 501.33 508.00 514.00 505.33 1022.00
Q Enrigue Diez 496.67 497.67 483.67 514.00 1011.67
21 Eric Taylor 486.67 485.33 498.00 508.00 994.67 .956
22 Jim Rhoades 485.67 482.67 497.00 493.67 982.67 .945
23 Walter Brownell 482.33 480.67 474.00 487.00 969.33 .932
24 Donald Ogren 470.67 413.00 472.00 477.33 948.00 .916
25 Patrick Rowan 451.67 462.33 473.00 463.33 935.33 .904
26 Wesley Eakin 469.67 393.00 463.67 462.00 933.33 .902
27 Will Hinton 439.67 447.67 459.33 293.67 907.00 .877
28 Robert Brookins 434.67 452.33 436.00 449.33 901.67 .867
29 Neal Thompson 239.00 340.00 579.00 .560
30 Larry Maltman 349.67 443.00 443.00 .428
31 Stephen Pagano .000
31 Mark Hughes .000
31 Francisco Fontenelle .000

John D'Ottavio might be down bottom, but he is really the tops.

At 85 years he is still flying, competing and judging! And he is having fun! That's great. Keep it up, John!

Howard,

You're right. Orestes is .67 points better. Sigh...

How about some pictures?

What I find interesting is that 1044 points is enough to qualify while 1073 only gets 21st and 1086 gets 24th place. Since everyone is supposed to fly before each judge the same number of times shouldn't highest scores qualify regardless of the group you are in.

Just my .02cents worth.

Carl

>What I find interesting is that 1044 points is enough to
>qualify while 1073 only gets 21st and 1086 gets 24th place.
>Since everyone is supposed to fly before each judge the same
>number of times shouldn't highest scores qualify regardless of
>the group you are in.
>
>Just my .02cents worth.
>
>Carl

Not how it works, Carl. The flyers are assigned to four distince groups and the competition is within each group the first two days. All the flyers in each individual group flies in front of one set of judges on day one and another set on day two. There are four circles, 1,2,3 and 4. The four groups fly either circle one (day one) then circle three (day two), or vice versa. Ditto the two groups flying on circle 2 and 4. Thus the flyers do not see all the judges (or vice versa) and even those that fly on the same circles do so on different days with each set of judges so that score wouldn't ideally be compared one to the other because of the possibility of significantly different weather conditions.

Top five from each to the top twenty where they fly one official flight on each of two circles, the total of which define who goes to the Finals on Friday. The top twenty flights are added together because all flyers DO fly in front of each set of judges and the time frame is very short (only twenty total flights per circles) thus making conditions as close to the same for all as is possible.

Make sense???

Ted

p.s. the apparent dichotomy about raw "numbers" is the result of the fact that each of the four groups of fliers is an independent entity during qualifying.

By the way, the big advantage of this format is that, in general, competitive flying is done in a very compact time frame making conditions as equitable as possible (primarily weather).

The opposite (and highly undesirable) extreme is the World Champs format where you've got on circle and 100+ pilots so that a single round can take up to a day and a half, Judges get fatigued halfway through the day and the conditions in which competitors fly their official flights can have huge variations in conditions.

Pretty much only the U.S. flyers seems to think that format isn't just fine, however. (A bit of hyperbole, but the FAI moves with the blinding speed of the glaciers)

>What I find interesting is that 1044 points is enough to
>qualify while 1073 only gets 21st and 1086 gets 24th place.
>Since everyone is supposed to fly before each judge the same
>number of times shouldn't highest scores qualify regardless of
>the group you are in.


Except we aren't all flying in front of each judge. For example, I was in group A and flew on Circles 1 and 3, with the judges that were resident on those circles. Group B flew on 2 and 4 for the judges that were on those circles. Group C was 3 and 1 and Group D was 4 and 2. So the scores are not really comparable from group to group.

Conceptually, it's 4 independent contests, and the top 5 from each independent contests fly against each other in a single contest on Friday. That's why the seeding can matter to some extent, the skill levels need to be balanced between the circles. This year they used a algorithm that used the last 10 years results to determine who was in each group, er, contest, intead of the calibrated eyeball method previously used, and despite that there were a few comments about circle balance - Group A being singled out as harder than the others, what with me, Matt, and Howard all there.

On Top 20 day all that goes away and it really is a single (very good) contest and the scores add. it's also brutally difficult and notoriously prone to induce brain fad. There are no throw-aways or do-overs and every year it seems to get someone. I've gotten burned a few times and there were at least a few "oopsies" today.


Brett

The contestant seeding system that Paul Walker devised for the Nats takes the Nats results for the past ten years, ranks contestants by their Nats placing, weighted by how long ago the placings happened (you get more points for placing third last year than you do for placing third in 1999). Seeded contestants are distributed in order among the four groups like so:
#1 seed goes to group A.
#2 seed goes to group B.
#3 seed goes to group C.
#4 seed goes to group D.
#5 seed goes to group D.
#6 seed goes to group C.
#7 seed goes to group B.
#8 seed goes to group A.
#9 seed goes to group A.
#10 seed goes to group B.
and so on.

This, I think, is unnecessarily detailed, and is done only to eliminate any suggestion of unevenness in distribution among the four groups. Anybody who would complain about it is, in my opinion, a loser or whiner or some linear combination thereof, although he is welcome to propose something better and write a program that does it.

Placings below 20 are determined by dividing a nonqualifying contestant's score by the score of the highest-placing contestant in his group.


Howard Rush
Bellevue, WA

>This, I think, is unnecessarily detailed, and is done only to
>eliminate any suggestion of unevenness in distribution among
>the four groups. Anybody who would complain about it is, in my
>opinion, a loser or whiner or some linear combination thereof,
>although he is welcome to propose something better and write a
>program that does it.

Well, stunt fliers have many and varied interests - pretty airplanes, well-flown geometric figures, arguing over the results of contests, complaining about anything and everything, etc. I heard an off-hand comment today that the weather was too good.

It doesn't matter WHAT system you use, someone will complain about it.

Brett

Use plain text mode...

Top 5 day os over - Howard and Derek ended up tied for 5th,
so after some discussion of flyoffs, it was decided to just
put the both in there. So the Top 6 is:

some slug
Orestes Hernandez
Bill Rich
Windy Urtnowski
Derek Berry
Howard Rush

   Needless to say there was some drama while people waited
out the scores. Derek, Orestes, and Matt Neumann all flew late
in the second round. Most of us though that some slug, Derek
and Orestes were mortal locks, and that Bill was OK and it
came down to Windy and Matt. Orestes worked out that way, but
Derek put the thrill back in it when he tied Howard, making it
look like they were both likely out of it. Matt had a very
good first-round flight and had been nip and tuck with me
through qualifying, and after a very long wait, his
second-round score just didn't quite make it, putting Derek
and Howard both in it. 

     Mike Palko ended up as Rookie of the Year with a top 10
finish, He and Dan "Jet Jock" Banjock are going to
warm up the judges tomorrow. So we all start off even tomorrow
morning. 

     Brett

This is a super top 5 "6"

Has anyone noticed that they represent most areas of the country? Isn't great?

Congratulations to all.

Howard,

Congratulations on you first "Precision Aerobatic" top "6".
I think that the top "6" should be kept.....

Jim Pollock

I'm still lookin' for pics of Howard's new plane. Congratulations to all contestants... Steve

Steve Helmick
Renton, Washington
USA

I took a picture of it, but I forgot my camera-computer interface cable.

Howard Rush

Howard,

Drive down the road to Office Depot and get the Mini-USB cable and show us your plane!!

Congratulations by the way. Nicely done. Watch out for Derek..

Yea, Congraduations Howard. I knew you had it in you.

I look forward to hearing the results for today.

>I'm still lookin' for pics of Howard's new plane.
>Congratulations to all contestants... Steve

Here is a picture of Howard's beautiful plane on the flight line this morning.
DennisV




[photo not recovered: 29738.jpg]

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

I see this one has the "Sweden Stabalizer", in addition to the flap booster tabs. Not all Impacts are the same.

Patrick Rowan emailed me this picture of Howard's 9-year Impact, taken at Appearance Judging, I figure. Thank you! I worked long and hard on this picture, to get it just under 50kb, and I'm not too pleased with the results. It's a lot better at 118kb (which I posted over yonder [photo not recovered: shocked.gif] ), as the limit here is 50kb.

I vaguely remember an Art History class in my distant past...wasn't there a "Cubist" style? Maybe Howard has been drinking imported wine with his Curry? Steve

Steve Helmick
Renton, Washington
USA

[photo not recovered: 29740.jpg]

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

I think there was a video game called "Quebert" The graphics were similar to his and you had to jump around the bad guys on this cube thingie!!

Nice plane Howard. Way to go making the Top 5...er Top 6!

You nailed it, Doug!!! That plane cries out for a Q-Bert figure in the pilot's seat.


[photo not recovered: 29741.jpg]

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

Reminds me more of M.C. Escher from his Swiss / Belgian period, like the 1938 "Cycle" work.

[photo not recovered: 29742.jpg]

Cool plane Howard.
EricV

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

I think an Escher plane would have a definite advantage in flying square corners...

Howard's plane sort of reminds me of, well, Howard's last plane. He's clearly an Orange sort of guy.

Looks good, Howard.

Another advantage to an Escher plane would be that your lines would never twist

>I see this one has the "Sweden Stabilizer", in
>addition to the flap booster tabs. Not all Impacts are the
>same.

What's the 'Sweden Stabilizer'?

Thanks for the nice words, guys.

I don't remember what the Sweden stabilizer is, but Paul builds some Impacts with the original Flying Models plans stabilizer tip chord, and some with half that tip chord. His 1992 world champion had the lesser tip chord, as does my new plane. Impacts have evolved to have wider aft fuselages and a new take-apart scheme. Paul's last few have had increased wingspan. Mine is pretty much per the FM plans, but with homemade fuselage-mounted landing gear, carbon motor mounts, ball links, a wider aft fuselage, a different fuel tank mount, and the aforementioned stabilizer layout.

Howard Rush
Bellevue, WA

Oh, and boost tabs.

Howard Rush
Bellevue, WA

so you're saying we're all flying modified noblers...?

hehehehe

B

Certainly not. Sometimes you see a Fierce Arrow.

Howard Rush
Bellevue, WA

>Thanks for the nice words, guys.
>
>I don't remember what the Sweden stabilizer is...>Howard Rush
>Bellevue, WA

One Swedish Stab.

Howard Danger Rush: That's not mine.

One credit card receipt for Swedish Stab signed by Howard Danger Rush.

Howard Danger Rush:I'm telling ya baby, that's not mine.

One warranty card for Swedish Stab, filled out by Howard Danger Rush.

Howard Danger Rush:I don't even know what this is! This sort of thing ain't my bag, baby.

One book, "Swedish Stab's And Me: This Sort of Thing Is My Bag Baby", by Howard Danger Rush.



EricV