still crazy after all these years - what engine to use?

Hi, getting back into flying after a long "vacation" (45+ years). I love building as much as flying. Back in the 50's-60's we used McCoy .35's because they were cheap, but the the Fox .35 was the engine of choice. I also used an OS Max .35 with much success. I have been reviewing this thread for some time now and I am ready to build a stunt ship or two, but have now idea what engine to use and what the new "buzz words" mean. To me, a "tuned pipe" meant a choice flute! I see from reading Flying models and searches on the internet that there are lots of new stuff out there and the current breed of Fox engines don't seem to be in favor. Any suggestions as what to start with would be appreciated. I am thinking of building a Nobler or Ruffy. I still have a Ruffy my dad built me over 50 years ago but is in now my museum piece - not to fly for fear of turning it into kindling! I still remember the times he built me a new flight streak over night so I could go fling the next day. Not many hobbies that have the nostalgia that flying control line does!!!!!!!!! Sincerely, JIm M

Jim,

Welcome back!

The Fox 35 still has uses, and there have been some mods and upgrades that keep them still 'decent' choices.

There are other engines of similar cost that have a lot of the 'modern' advantages... (Be sure you use fuel that suits a particular engine...)

Also, if you are interested in any level of competition - and there are several which are not "blood sport intensive," you can ease back in pleasantly in Old Time Stunt, or Classic, with models that suit a strong Fox 35 or any of several more recent engines.

"Friendly" competition? YES! You will be welcomed, and any questions you have will be answered fully and in a very welcoming way. CL fliers depend on each other for launches and retrievals - how much more can you rely on a buddy? Or for them to rely on you, in your turn?

Old Time Stunt allows only models available before stroke of New Year's 1953. Choice of engine and several other 'improvements' is up to the flier, but check the PAMPA website for the current rules on what can and cannot be done to change a model from that era.

"Classic" is similar, but allows any eligible Old Time model, plus has a 'design or availability date' before stroke of midnight, New Year's 1970.

Some regions of the USA are enjoying a yet later class: Nostalgia 30. In this one, a design provable to have existed 30 years before the current year, and all prior classes, are eligible to compete.

Flight pattern rules are the same for Classic, Nostalgia 30, and the current AMA event. Old Time Stunt pattern is almost exactly as flown before Jan 1, 1953. (Those rules were pretty vague, so some further clarifications have been added. Again, the OTS rules are available at the PAMPA website, for members.)

PAMPA is having a special membership price at the moment. I think it is worth considering.

Best of luck, and, again welcome back!

Welcome home!

What you will discover soon enough is that there are few (if any) reliable stunt engines available today. Most of the current crop of engines are designed to "go fast" for the R/C boys! Consequently we must rely on certain engine "Guru's" to retime these for C/L stunt. That said, the Thunder Tiger .36 is a reasonably priced ball bearing engine but needs to be re-timed for stunt. For out of the box stunt performance the OS LA .46 seems to be the ticket. Brodak .25's and .40's are stunt designed when available.

That ought to get this conversation started!


W.

Welcome back Jim, OK, check the classifieds and you can usually find what you need at good prices. For the planes you mentioned the L&J Fox 35 is a good one, light weight and there's a couple in the classifieds for 100.00 ea which is good for them. They are reworked by Larry Foster. Asking questions on the forum can save you money so don't hesitate.

Good Luck and have fun.

I'm presently flying a Fox stunt 35 I bought in 1976. I'm running the "stuffer" backplate, but took the hemi head off because it was giving me too much power for the airplane (26 oz airplane). The engine has excellent compression, low vibration (upright mount), quick starts and reliable runs.

If you don't have an engine, people speak well of the LA 46.

Jim, I am also an old timer, having started control line in 1953 with a Scientific Little Ace and an O.K. Cub .049. Our early big planes included the Guillow's Trixter Profile B-C, Sterling S-1 Ringmaster, Half Fast built from magazine plans, All American Senior, Pdq Flying Clown, Super Clown and Circus King, Veco Smoothie and Thunderbird, a number of combat designs, etc., etc., etc. For engines, we favored K&B .29 and 35 Greenheads, Fox .29 and .35 stunt, and Johnson .35 smallcase with a few McCoys thrown in for good measure. ANYWAY, I HAVE MOST OF THOSE ENGINES AND USE THEM TODAY ON PRETTY MUCH THE SAME DESIGNS AS IN YESTERYEAR. SINCE THEN, I HAVE THROWN IN THE STERLING YAK-9, A GREENBOX NOBLER, A TRIXTER BARNSTORMER AND AN AMBROID ARIES. THE POINT IS, I AM A NOSTALGIA NUT AND STILL ENJOY THE OLD ENGINES AND THE OLD DESIGNS. THEY STILL WORK GOOD FOR ME. I AM NOT A COMPETITION NUT, BUT I DID FLY COMBAT AND STUNT COMPETITION DURING THE 1950'S AND 1960'S. AT AGE 70, THE COMBAT IS OUT BUT SHOULD I EVER DECIDE TO FLY IN COMPETITION AGAIN, IT WOULD BE WITH MY RINGMASTER/FOX .35 OR MY BARNSTORMER/FOX .35 IN OLD TIME STUNT. THE OLD EQUIPMENT STILL WORKS AND CAN PROVIDE MUCH ENJOYMENT. IF YOU NEED A SOURCE FOR OLD ENGINES/KITS, ETC. EBAY IS THE PLACE TO GO/OTHERWISE CHECK OUT BRODAK......TDurrill

Hi Jim,

Man, the "which engine" question can really give a lot of answers, but the guys here have done great so far. So many of the "standard" engines on the market today have R/C timing which doesn't usually lend them to a traditional 4-2 stunt run.

A Fox .35 can still do a great job. There are things that can be done to improve them these days, if you feel the need. A '57 Nobler and a Fox .35 is still a real good combination short of flying Open at the NATS. An OS .25LAS will power about the same size plane (a small, light Classic plane like a Nobler) very well, and they are reasonably priced.

For "Modern High Powered Stunt" (LOL!)the Aero Tiger .36 is an awesome, very friendly, super powerful, engine that still is a 4-2 run. The compact, square head Magnum .36XLSIIA is an out of the box stunt engine that is very reliable, but runs a flatter pitch prop and at much higher rpm than the Fox. My son ran one in Classic in an Ares and it was excellent.

Of course, there is always the OS .46LA that many, many use. They put them in Noblers and other planes up to pretty good size. I just don't like the idea of finding a prop (and getting it to clear the ground) on the old Classic designs with the .46LA. About the smallest I have seen used are 11" and that can be a problem. Otherwise, they are a dead solid stunt engine out of the box.

The Magnum .36 and OS.46LA are the cheapest to buy new, and Phil Granderson has used several of the other size compact Magnum XLS engines (like the .28, IIRC) in Classic planes with good results.

The EVO .36 is supposed to be a very good, recently released, dedicated stunt engine. Not a bad price, either. I have just not tried one or seen one in these parts, yet.

One other (a touch more expensive, but usually not too bad) option is getting a retimed engine from one of the engine builders. Leonard here does that and they are very good! Different sizes and all are available. One of the best "stunt" engines I ever had was a OS .40FP that had the timing changed to allow it to 4-2 with out running away. Still had plenty of usuable power.

It all depends on "how deep your pockets are"! LOL!!

And I don't have an aversion to using an Honest to God Classic engine like an OS .35S, Veco, McCoy Red Head, K&B, etc., sometimes. They will still do the job just fine for local contest work, and such.

Big Bear <><
Character: It's what you do when no one else is watching.

There are many that don't care for the Fox.35. I myself prefer them. The OS LA.25 is compared to the Fox quite frequently as being equal or just as powerful. Our club runs more Fox's than any other engine on a daily basis. We were doing a little survey recently to see. I believe on a daily basis there were no less than 10 Fox's present everytime we fly. They just fill the void where no other engine does. Our newer members generally use the Fox.35 until they graduate to the larger birds. The parts are readily available as well. The other good point is the Fox trade in policy. You can take any engine trade it in to Fox and receive a new Fox.35 for about $48+ shipping. I run them hard and enjoy them. Ken

hi Ken,

I don't think the OS .25LA is quite as powerful. I've seen a Fox .35 fly some rather large models before! LOL!! But the .25LA IS a pretty good out of the box engine, and works pretty good in some light Classic planes as well as a Ringmaster, etc..

The 1/2 price deal on trade ins at Fox is still a GREAT deal!

Big Bear <><
Character: It's what you do when no one else is watching.