Dope and Thinners went up again

Just got off the phone with one of my suppliers for Dope and thinner. It is now $90.00 for a gallon of nitrate dope and a gallon of nitrate thinner. There has got to be a better way.

Mike

>Just got off the phone with one of my suppliers for Dope and
>thinner. It is now $90.00 for a gallon of nitrate dope and a
>gallon of nitrate thinner. There has got to be a better way.
>
>Mike

Well, you could try Kemtone and a roller, but I wouldn't recommend it.

>>Just got off the phone with one of my suppliers for Dope
>and
>>thinner. It is now $90.00 for a gallon of nitrate dope
>and a
>>gallon of nitrate thinner. There has got to be a better
>way.
>>
>>Mike
>
>Well, you could try Kemtone and a roller, but I wouldn't
>recommend it.


I don't think so Leonard...

>>>Just got off the phone with one of my suppliers for
>>>Dope and thinner. It is now $90.00 for a gallon of
>>>nitrate dope and a gallon of nitrate thinner.
>>>There has got to be a better way.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>
>>Well, you could try Kemtone and a roller, but I wouldn't
>>recommend it.
>
>
>I don't think so Leonard...

Well, I did say, "I wouldn't recommend it."
Just trying to be helpful and save you money.

Hi Mike,

The way I see it is that a builder of model aircraft can always use "monocoat" or some other "CHEAP" covering material. Personally I'll stick to dope no matter what it costs........I'll just build less planes if it gets to outrageous!

Jerry

PS: I've been using cheaper laquer thinner and it works fine for me!

Would appreciate any information on lacquer thinners such as Dupont, PPG or other locally available thinners would work with butyrate and nitrate dope. Are there thinners that will work with both or must we find specific products for each type of dope?

Gathering up materials to do my first dope finish in years and get back into CL and have some catching up to do.

Any information is appreciated.

Another question. Has anyone tried Stits Polytone?
It acts a lot like dope in parctice, but does not shrink. Is easy buff to a nice finish. Is it fuel proof? How about weight?
It seems to take fewer coats than dope.
I have some of this left over from full size airplane projects, but I don't want to mess up a new plane by experimenting too much.

I have used Dupont 3608S lacquer thinner successfully for years...both buterate and nitrate. FWIW: Buterate thinner can be used for nitrate but nitrate thinner is incompatible with buterate.

Dope has gone crazy but there are other materials we can use. Min-Wax goes on easy. Even rattle cans can do. L/H/S has small 1 oz bottle for $7.95 I know some will use dope no matter what and understant very well. You will not see new flyers when cost is out of reason. Tree huggers are relentless and green movement. 2/3 of worlds population live in china and india and they could care less about green. Dan

Dupont has stopped supplying lacquer thinner of any kind. I used it for years for cleaning of valve body parts in automatic transmissions.

Sherwin Williams still produces it but I haven't tried it with dope.

>Another question. Has anyone tried Stits Polytone?
>It acts a lot like dope in parctice, but does not shrink. Is
>easy buff to a nice finish. Is it fuel proof? How about
>weight?
>It seems to take fewer coats than dope.
>I have some of this left over from full size airplane
>projects, but I don't want to mess up a new plane by
>experimenting too much.

Poly-Tone is not fuel-resistant, and it will not go over dope, either nitrate or butyrate. It just has little adhesion to dope. Poly-Tone will finish up at about the same weight as a dope finish, but you need to start with Poly-Fiber liquid products from the balsa on out through final Poly-Tone color.

I just got off the phone with Bill at Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co. in Corona California.

Here are prices and numbers for Certified and Randolph Dopes.

Certified

Taughtening Nitrate,clear 09-9500 $41.25 Gal
Non Taught Nitrate, clear 09-10000 $39.95 Gal
Taughtening Butyrate, clear 09-10500 $52.00 Gal
Non Taught Butrate, clear 09-11000 $59.25 Gal
Nitrate Thinner 09-11500 $34.75 Gal
Butyrate Thinner 09-120000 $37.00 Gal

Randolph

Non Taught Nitrate, clear E-4964-1G $40.10 Gal
Taughtening Butyrate 9701-1G $39.20 Gal
Butyrate Thinner 9703-1G $24.60 Gal
Nitrate Thinner 286-1G $45.75 Gal

Bill says that there will be no haz-mat fee when shipped by ground.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

>I just got off the>Randolph
>
>Non Taught Nitrate, clear E-4964-1G $40.10 Gal
>Taughtening Butyrate 9701-1G $39.20 Gal
>Butyrate Thinner 9703-1G $24.60 Gal
>Nitrate Thinner 286-1G $45.75 Gal
>
>Bill says that there will be no haz-mat fee when shipped by
>ground.
>
>Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team
>
Now thats more like it not great but mucho better.
Thanks Larry.
Dan

What do you all expect? Production costs have risen, sales have fallen, and don't even mention Federal Haz-mat issues. At this point, I consider myself lucky to get the stuff at all.

Tell the people about Duplicolor thinner again, Larry. Which Duplicolor part number is it?

Howard Rush
Bellevue, WA

>Tell the people about Duplicolor thinner again, Larry. Which
>Duplicolor part number is it?
>
>Howard Rush
>Bellevue, WA


The thinner that Howard mentioned is Dupli-Color high VOC lacquer thinner CM-502.

I have been using this for the last five or six planes I have finished. As most around these parts will attest, those finishes didn't turn out half bad.

The late great Jim Tichy (my painting mentor)had great success with the Klean-Strip High Solvent Lacquer Thinner, C0741. Jim believed that both the Dupli-Color and the Klean-Strip were manufactured by the same company and marketed under different names.

I buy the Duplicolor thinner at my local Kragen Auto Supply for about 15.00 a gallon.

The Klean-Strip can be found at Lowes and Home Depot for about the same price.

One more thing I might add is that both thinners are a medium/fast flashing thinner. If there is any moisture in the air, you might experience some blushing. To slow up the dry time and get the finish to flow out, I add a splash of Certified Retarder, B131.

Like I have stated, I have had better than great success with this material and I do highly recomend it if you can find it.

Did I mention that they are both a he!! of a lot cheaper than Brodak, Sig, Certified and Randolph?

Give them a try and let us all know how it works out for you.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

http://www.finish-pro.com/Products_Frameset.html

I have been using this brand of lacquer thinner on my last three planes. Used it with Brodak, SIG, and Randolph dopes, and also the Randolph retarder. Available from my local auto body shop supply. They have 4 different grades.

$15 Gen Purpose
$20 Primer Grade
$27 Premium Med Dry
$27 Premium Slow Dry

Allan Perret

Although I've used Dopes for years, my painting background is in the automotive field.

Automotive paint products I've used for a lifetime. I see no mention of them?

Anyone using automotive paint products?

CB

Thanks Larry; I can get Duplicolor CM502 at Oreillys auto parts, and I am pretty sure I can get the Klean-Strip at Lowes. I am going to try my source for Dupont 3608s as he probably still has some left.

>Anyone using automotive paint products?

Yes, most of the guys with the best finishes. They generally start with dope and then switch to car paint somewhere along the way. Look for Phil Granderson's article in Model Aviation a few years ago. I'm sorry I don't have my copy handy to find the date.

Howard Rush
Bellevue, WA

I found a reference to it: January 2007 issue, page 138. Thanks, Ty.

Howard Rush
Bellevue, WA

The day is coming where water based paints will be about all that can be afforded....and they're not cheap.



See Ya

Peabody

www.gscb.us / www.richpeabody.com

>Just got off the phone with one of my suppliers for Dope and
>thinner. It is now $90.00 for a gallon of nitrate dope and a
>gallon of nitrate thinner. There has got to be a better way.
>
>Mike

Buy Acetone. Add pieces of celulose plastic (often used to be used in those shirt box packaging) until the desired consitency is achieved. NB: if the plastic doesn't disolve and just goes white, it isn't celulose.

Cheers.

Kim.

I picked up a gallon of Dupont 3608s yesterday for $23.00 at an independent auto supply here in town. It has gone up from $18.00 a few years ago. I asked him about Dupont going out of the auto paint buisness, and he said he had not heard anything about it.

>I picked up a gallon of Dupont 3608s yesterday for $23.00 at
>an independent auto supply here in town. It has gone up from
>$18.00 a few years ago. I asked him about Dupont going out of
>the auto paint buisness, and he said he had not heard anything
>about it.

Randolph butyrate thinner is still only $25.40 per gallon. I have been in the business of restoring antique/classic fabric covered airplanes since 1979 & have known about the option of using DuPont 3608S lacquer thinner since before I started. While it will work for our models due to the relatively small size of the work surface I much prefer to use the correct thinner for the product to be thinned; both for full-scale airplanes & models. There is just not enough difference in price to justify becoming an experimental chemist with your model in which you have invested many hours of work just getting it to the finishing stage.

Automotive lacquer thinner is a much faster drying thinner than butyrate thinner, and the butyrate thinner has a number of chemicals in it that aid in flow-out & inter-coat adhesion of the dope.

Dopes & dope thinners are widely available, generally at your nearest general aviation airport; if not, then order from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co. Aircraft Spruce, Wickes, & others ship quickly & quite inexpensively.

>
>Automotive lacquer thinner is a much faster drying thinner
>than butyrate thinner, and the butyrate thinner has a number
>of chemicals in it that aid in flow-out & inter-coat
>adhesion of the dope.
>
>
What Bill has stated here is an absolute fact. In addition to that, the faster drying time can cause blushing.

However, you can still use the faster thinners if you add retarder.
This promotes flow-out, adhesion and in most conditions, eliminates blushing.
Right Bill?

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team