First subject, what system?

There are so many good systems out there to chose from. Some are dirt cheap, some would require a second mortgage to aquire.

In my opinion, there are two standards out there. Others may make different choices, and I invite them to post these choices, and the reasons why they made the choices they do.

At the higher end of the scale, Are the products from AutoDesk. You and I most commonly know them as AutoCad. When I first started, it was with AutoCad R-7 (release 7) back in the 80's. I don't even know what the latest release is called. (It could be R-2008)

Each release had a bit more power and could handle more serious jobs. R-12 was the last Dos based release. For drawing model airplane planes. Even release 7 has enough power, though I would miss some functions.

There are basic AutoCad programs available from AutoDesk for around $300.00. The latest full zoot system will be over ten times that cost.

TurboCAD by IMSI is one of the best low priced systems and rivals the best and latest from the top end companies. It is very versatile, and can use virtually any systems file to bring in a drawing. The way it is used is very similar to AutoCad, so the transition learning curve is not as steep as other systems.

As an example, since I already own an earlier version of TurboCAD, I recently recieved an offer to upgrade to the latest version, TurboCAD 14 Delux, with several add ons that included instructional help. My cost for the upgrade? About $150.00 Cost as a new user is about $300.00 A pretty good bargain, in my opinion.

There are others, what's your favorite, and why? Tell us, some are needing this information so they can decide which one to purchase.

I've only used AutoCAD so I can't add much. I know it isn't the best for 3D but plans are 2D so I'm happy. I have a D sized plotter at home so I'm really happy actually.

>I've only used AutoCAD so I can't add much. I know it isn't
>the best for 3D but plans are 2D so I'm happy. I have a D
>sized plotter at home so I'm really happy actually.

I like you use AutoCad for most of my work. It was what I was trained to use. And, you are correct that though it may lack in 3Dcapability, it doesn't really matter to us when we are interested in creating 2D drawings of our designs. Having a large plotter at home is also a great thing, but beyond what many have, or cand afford.

A work around is that many CAD systems will tile a drawing. Tileing is printing on multiple 8X11 sheets that can be taped together to make the full sized drawing. OK for working drawings, but one could also take the completed file to a shop, one that caters to drafting and engineering supplies, for example, and have a plot made for a reasonable cost.

In any case, when you chose a system, try to get one of the better supported systems. Some of the early ones from a few years ago, are no longer supported.

I use a program called DeltaCad from Midnight Software. Cost was $40 for the Pro version. I was very easy to learn and it does all that I need to do.



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Cris, this is a program I'm not aware of. Is it relativly new? The results look darned good, and as you say it does what you need it to do.

What file system is the plot file in, Any problems?

Tell us a little more please.

John,
I've known about it for at least 5 to 7 years. It's native file is a.dc file. It exports .dxf and imports .dxf and .dwg files. It may not be a full fledged CAD program, but it does all the standard stuff. Here is their website that describes what it can do.

http://www.deltacad.com/

Thanks Chris,

I went to the site, and downloaded the trial version. It's called Demo. It's a free demo that downloads a full featured version, good for 45 days. If you like it, you can buy the full version for a very reasonable price.

There is also a printed manual available for an additional, and also reasonable price,along with other products.

From a cursory examination, it appears that this system can open and use DWG files, which are what AutoCad uses, as well as DXF files which will usually work in any graphics system.

I plan on playing around with this program over the next few days to see exactly what it will do for us and our uses.

If, you are useing something else, let us know what it is, and how it's working for you. This is an area we can all profit from.




>Edit after playing around a few minutes in DeltaCad.

It seems intuitive to work in, It's missing some functions, or I haven't found them yet, that I like having, but rather easy to get around in.

I loaded in two different DWG files, the first a rather simple drawing which it handled easily. The second was a copy of the Last Pathfinder which is a rather complicated drawing. DeltaCad worked for a short time, then the drawing came up on the screen. There was a small error with a splined polyline, but nothing that couldn't easily be fixed.

As Chris said it's not hugely powerful, but capable of doing most of what we would want it to for our model designs.

For the price, and a simple to learn program I would suggest that you download the demo version. If it works for you, it's a steal at the price they are offering it for.

Next thing I want to do is make a drawing and save in it's native format as well as DWG and DXF. I'll then try and load it into AutoCad.

One thing I did notice that I want to check out further, was that I was able to exit the program without saving the drawing, even though I had moved around a lot in the drawing. This might simply be because all I did was move around, I made no changes, in which case it's not a problem.

I used Intellicad the last few years; very simple to operate,does most everything any 2D system will do...but, a few flaws: The points tend to "drift" microscopically as you work/save/reload over several days or weeks. A line that started out 6" long may later scale at, say, 6.003 or 5.997 or something. A horizontal line may not be quite horizontal any more; no more than a fraction of a degree off, not enough to matter (usually) but it's irritating. Also a mirrored line sometimes loses some of its functions, may not work as a "trim" line, or be trimmed, etc.

So I recently bought Turbocad, haven't yet gotten very far learning it, finding it hard to give up Intellicad which I can at least manipulate very easily. So I really appreciate this thread, hope it continues.

I tried out half a dozen different systems first--Autocad I suppose is the benchmark; Turbocad runs a close second as far as I can tell.

I worked professionally with an early version of Autocad in engineering for several years in the 80s-early 90s. Used the old tablet-driven setup. CAD has come a long ways!

--Ray

P.S. Here's a sample sketch of some TE options I did with Intellicad. Apologies for the picture quality but I had a hard time getting down to Len's 50k limit!

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Ray, Thanks for your post. I appreciate your observations. These are the little things that we need to know when making choices about sysems.

Sounds like you were using a pre R-13 system. I too started out with the tablet and I suppose that's why I tend to use the keyboard some of the time.

I feel much the same as you about TurboCad. And like you have stuck mostly with the system I'm most comfortable with. I hope that one of the results of this forum will be to providing the support and help we all need to cross over platforms.

I look forward to your input in the future.

John,
I find that DeltaCad imports .dwg files pretty good. Like you found, it isn't perfect. It does take awhile to import a complicated .dwg file.

I played around some more with DeltaCad last night.

It is relativly simple and intuitive to work in, which coincides with my first impression. It's more mouse oriented than I like, but that's because I'm used to combining keyboard and mouse commands.

It is possible to use some keyboard commands, but most require the use of the control key and another key at the same time. This means hat I have to use both hands instead of leaving one on the mouse, and typing with the other hand.

I also confirmed that there were some problems with polylines coming up with extra entities, when a AutoCad drawing was imported, but it's a small thing and easily fixed. I've seen the same thing happen when importing a DXF file.

Saving a drawing, even a complicated drawing like the Pathfinder, was very quick when I saved in it's native .DC format. It ground on a bit making the save in either .dwg, or .dxf, but it did indeed do the job.

Files from DeltaCad, saved as .dwg, and .dxf files came up just fine in AutoCad, so there were no percieved hitches in the conversions.

I did exit the program without saving, just to see what would happen, and it did shut down. The saving grace though, is that when I tried to power the system back up, it gave me the option of bringing up a copy of the file and doing a correct save, before going further into the program.

Take a look at the site, I definatly feel that this simple 2D cad system might be good for us to draw model airplane plans in. I'll most likely, upgrade to the paid version, and buy the manual as well. just so I can refer to the program as I continue in these threads.

John,
That's exactly my take on DeltaCad. I do like using the mouse though.

Just happened on this section of the forum. By golly, I have an older verson of Delta Cad, (version 3.0) that I have never even looked at. I shall give it a try. If I can do it, there is surely help for everyone. I use a real simple cad program for my trailer business for frames, bodies, etc. Thanks for the reminder about Delta, I will also give the new version a try and probably order it. 40 bucks for something I can use is fair nuff.
Lee TGD

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I've taken your advice and downloaded the trial version of DeltaCad.
Hope the above attachment shows what I,ve created from the tutorial.
How can anyone be proud of that,but I am. ... Only made a few mistakes at first but it soon gets you to work it out yourself and you do get the hang of how it works.its quite easy?? I'll keep going for the next 40 odd days and see what I can do.If I get on ok I'll buy the full version.

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

I wish your drawing would have shown up. Perhaps you can try again?

John

Hope this works ?

http://www.clstunt.com/htdocs/dc/user_files/28188.zip

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In response to this thread, I looked on E-bay for a TurboCad program that I could afford and would run on my computer system (2000 Pro). I found a NIB TurboCad 12 with manual which I can afford. Is this good enough for our purposes and to participate in this on-line workshop? John


If it doesn't stink, it's not a diesel

>In response to this thread, I looked on E-bay for a TurboCad
>program that I could afford and would run on my computer
>system (2000 Pro). I found a NIB TurboCad 12 with manual
>which I can afford. Is this good enough for our purposes and
>to participate in this on-line workshop? John
>
>
>If it doesn't stink, it's not a diesel


My version is "Turbocad Deluxe v. 12". The "Deluxe" may be the addition of 3D rendering, which I probably will never use. Since I bought this no more than 6 months ago I think version 12 is indeed the latest.

--Ray

EDIT: Belatedly, I see by the original post that there is a version 14 out now (hadn't noticed that before obviously). Well, I'm not upgrading at least until I learn how to use it well!

The one I'm looking at is TurboCad Deluxe 12. It must be very basic, but is it enough for our purposes?

If it doesn't stink, it's not a diesel

>The one I'm looking at is TurboCad Deluxe 12. It must be
>very basic, but is it enough for our purposes?
>
>If it doesn't stink, it's not a diesel

Yes. More than enough. Not as "basic" as it may look.

--Ray

I have two versions of TurboCAD that I have never even booted up. They are TurboCAD Designer V-11 and TurboCAD Designer 2D/3D v-9.2. Are either of these any good for our purposes? I bought them to fool around with house plan ideas.

GUY BLANKINSHIP
AMA 14272

In response to the questions about Turbocad, the answer is a definate yes. There are some differences between AutoCad and TurboCad in the commands ans such, but once learned, the two systems are pretty close to each other.

My version here is TurboCad 9. I'll probably upgrade to V14 soon. I tend to use AutoCAD because that's what I was trained on, and therefor most comfortable in.

I'm hoping that when a lesson is presented using AutoCad, that some one here will post the exact same lesson using the commands for other systems, including TurboCad.

TurboCad Deluxe now has a V-14 with an upgrade price of $49.95.
http://www.turbocad.com/TurboCAD/UpgradeCenter/DeluxeUpgrade/tabid/131/Default.aspx

Also, has anyone had any experience with ModelCad and Wingmaster? http://www.upperspace.com/products/1019/ ModelCad is $55 and both are bundled together for $79.

GUY BLANKINSHIP
AMA 14272

Hello Guy,

Model CAD was one of the early Cad systems promoted for, and by modelors. I remember seeing reviews of the program in model magazines some time ago.

My recollections of the reviews at that time, were that the system worked OK, did what it said it would, and could produce tiled prints, so it was possible to produce a full sized plan with a normal printer, and some tape.

I'm sure that in the intervening years the system has been improved, as have most others.

I did dowmload a copy about 8 or more years ago. but didn't really try it out well.

I'm in good company because most Cad pilots tend to stay with the system they first learned on. The same thing happens with making the change from the board to CAD. It's easier and faster to do the job using the techniques one is most comfortable in.

It takes a dedication to learning the new system to become fluent in it. One has to be willing to go back to basics, to learn the new commands, and techniques, required by the new platform.

But, being fluent in one platform does help a lot because you have some idea for a solution to a problem going into it. It's just the new structure you need to master.

Wingmaster is a new program to me, though I do use a seperate program for my wing ribs and lofting solutions. I use Compufoil, but I would suspect that they are similar, in the same way that Cad systems are.

I definatley believe that airfoil programs are a beneficial, and helpful tool, worth the money if you want to design your own airplanes.

In the end, I would tend to look for what could be considered the top three or four systems, and make my choice based on my own personal factors, such as cost, and usability for my purposes.

Most of my work has been done on AutoCad, but playing with a few other systems has shown me the strong and weak points I need to be aware of.

John,
Based on your answer, I should probably stay with the TurboCad products. Maybe start out with the TurboCAD Designer V-11 and then upgrade to the TurboCAD Deluxe V-14. The Designer does have the 2D tutorial CD, which I will install as soon as I finish my corporate tax return.

GUY BLANKINSHIP
AMA 14272

>John,
>Based on your answer, I should probably stay with the TurboCad
>products. Maybe start out with the TurboCAD Designer V-11 and
>then upgrade to the TurboCAD Deluxe V-14. The Designer does
>have the 2D tutorial CD, which I will install as soon as I
>finish my corporate tax return.
>
>GUY BLANKINSHIP
>AMA 14272

Guy, I believe you could do a lot worse than following your decision. I hesitate to say that one or the other is the absolute and only system to get. Even though I use AutoCad the most, and am most comfortqable working within it, I've used TurboCAD, and it is a good and powerful system at a reasonable cost.

I've also been playing around with DeltaCad recently, and I'm frankly impressed. It's a little more than a basic program, but it can do most of what we need to draw our model plans. Purchase price when I downloaded my evaluation copy was about $30.00 US. Hard to beat.

TurboCAD, is a full bogey system and for it's price, is also hard to beat, esp. if you need the extra features.

In any case It's going to be fun isn't it?

Has anyone used TurboCad Designer with success? Does it have what we need? For $20 it might be worth a try...

A.

--Welcome to the only sport where dope is not only legal, but often recommended!

I have TurboCad Designer V-11. See post #21 above. Mine had a tutorial CD in the box that is quite good. When I finish it, I'll try the Designer. I just picked it up because it was cheap with a rebate.

GUY BLANKINSHIP
AMA 14272

Hi All,

Just received an e-mail from IMSI re the new TurboCad Deluxe V-15. Retail is $129.95; registered users can update for $89.95.

GUY BLANKINSHIP
AMA 14272

Several years ago I downloaded what was called TurboCAD "Learning edition" from IMST. It was entirely free with no time restrictios on use. I believe it was really version 6 or 7 when 9 or 10 was the current one.

I never got around to trying to learn anything about it or CAD in general, so I can't comment on it's applicabiliy. I have a "new" computer now and can't find the disk with the program.

I don't know if it is still avaliable, but it might be worth investigating.

Bill

When I was investigating CAD software, I downloaded the Turbocad "free" version along with a bunch of others (Versacad, Intellicad, a bunch of others I can't remember now). As with most demos, it was pretty limited. I bought TurboCad version 12 and it can do much more than I can, very nice program.

--Ray

>When I was investigating CAD software, I downloaded the
>Turbocad "free" version along with a bunch of others
>(Versacad, Intellicad, a bunch of others I can't remember
>now). As with most demos, it was pretty limited. I bought
>TurboCad version 12 and it can do much more than I can, very
>nice program.

Actually, I find it handy to have both Autocad (or one of the clones) and Turbocad handy. Each does certain things better than the other.

One of the things that I can do in Turbocad is to generate rib profiles for tapered wings. Once you have your root and tip ribs drawn, you can loft a surface onto them and then section where the ribs would be. This even works with diagonal type ribs that you see using the Hunt Lost Foam system. You can then either print them out and use them as templates or send them to a laser cutter and have them cut the ribs. Very tidy, very nice.

V/r

Bob

bump

I have no experience with CAD, but stumble on Google's free Sketchup.

Really nice for doing 3D stuff, but maybe not the best for 2D. Still, since it's free, I thought I'd mention it as it might get more people into doing CAD.

Here's a drawing I did to try to see if I could do a diagonal battery placement in my electric Score.

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