Quality or what?

I consider myself a fairly competitive stunt flyer and have been for a couple of years. It appears that because of this I/we have been labeled "Elitists!" The connotation being that we are unobtainiam to the rest of the modelers for any help and/or advice that we could give them. I have and I do help anyone that wants it and will always feel that way. Since we are being trashed on a few threads because we are regarded as the best of the best, I take offense at this. It is totally unwarranted! I have not been able to figure out where this comes from, must be envy! The rest of you guys can call me about anything anytime and you know who you are. Everyone else is either really, really good or they just don't get the picture. And, yeah, we Elitists did invent PAMPA and we're proud of it! It pains us to see a possible downward trend of late to what has and is regarded as the Premier SIG in AMA. C'mon guys, lets keep this a class act and a competition oriented organization. Yours in controline (oops!) I mean in PAMPA, Bob Whitely

Bob,
Well said and I 2nd it.

Mikey

Bob,

The sort of stuff you cite has been annoying me of late as well. In fact, the only reason I am not well and truly pissed is these comments stem from nothing more than ignorance.

I'm fixin' to back you and all the rest of us "elitists" up with some pretty good information. In a day or so.

Well, Bob, I fly diesels, and thus am a member of a smaller and stinkier elite than you.

If one is a member of an elite group as a result of hard work and dedication, and membership is available to anyone who shows the requisite hard work and dedication, one should be proud of the elite label.

Control line fliers as such are an elite group. Just think how many of the 6 billion + people on earth cannot fly a CL airplane.

>Bob,
>
>The sort of stuff you cite has been annoying me of late as
>well. In fact, the only reason I am not well and truly
>pissed is these comments stem from nothing more than
>ignorance.
>
>I'm fixin' to back you and all the rest of us "elitists" up
>with some pretty good information. In a day or so.
>
>Dan

Ah, why wait?

I've got two stories, and an article from freshly-released Flying Lines newsletter.

First, if anyone can be thought to be a potential elitist in our hobby it's a man I fly with quite a lot and that is Paul Walker. You name it, he's won it. In some cases multiple times.

Paul is one of the most approachable people on the field, whether we are out practicing or at a contest. He is willing to help anybody, frequently does so, he never just "phones it in," even at local contests, he even works at our contests, loading equipment, making arrangements, pulling judging duty.

A visitor, especially one of these folk whining about elitists in PAMPA and such, would not in any way be able to tell PW from the rest of us, beginner to expert. Well, until he flew they wouldn't know. Maybe not even then, come to think of it.

Let me give you guys a specific example. It was the 2002 NW Regionals. Big contest, biggest in the Pacific NW, as a matter of fact. It was late Sunday afternoon, official flying was done. We were all tired, had been at it for three or four days, plus travel time, some had a fairly long drive still ahead of them.

This would have included Brett Buck, David Fitzgerald and Ted Fancher, all anxious to get packed up and headed back down I-5.

Except for the presence of one Bob Smiley, packing was exactly what they intended to be doing. At the time Bob had been flying in Intermediate, with this contest had (I believe) made the move to Advanced.

He was flying a Primary Force, a pretty neat little design, but Hey! it is a profile, it did have a 25LA on it, and--sorry for saying so, Bob--it was not particularly well built.

But Bob is a guy who is really going after this CL Stunt stuff, although I don't think that may have been apparent to our Brett/Ted/David grouping.

Bob walks right up, model in hand, vacant circle just behind us, and asks for help.

Now I ask you, how difficult would it have been to just blow him off? Need to pack the van, get some food, trophies to snag, etc. And here's Bob with what can only be referred to as a well-used profile that might never amount to much.

Well, I'm not sure of the exact sequence of events, but I think the first thing to take place was for Ted to fly it, this followed by some discussion with Bob. Ted had identified some problems. I was distracted for a moment, turned around to see Ted still talking with Bob. Brett and David were actually kneeling on the ground, both had their hands on the model, David pulling leadouts in and out while Brett checked the action at flying surfaces.

While this was actually a fairly unremarkable situation--nobody I am aware of even commented on it--think about the levels of experience of each one of these guys has and they were down on the ground trying to improve Bob's model. Right, just one of them would have been more help than your average guy can absorb, but here it was multiplied by three!!

I think of that little episode--and a great many others--every single time somebody plays the elitist card. What a totally undeserving cheap shot, because I know for a fact there a **a lot more** people out there, Bob Whitely is one, of course, who have and will do the same thing. *For anyody* with an interest in CL.

Finally, as this month's Flying Lines has now hit my mailbox, here's an article I wrote and that was included in this issue. My, how timely...

Flying Lines
The Real Dirt
Dan Rutherford

Beginning in CL Stunt

This is not a how-to article. For that, respond to my classified ad offering (Free! Free! Free!) details for a proven combination which is both cheap and effective. Instead, I would like it known how those making a beginning, most often flying in Beginner PA, are seen by the more experienced.

While it has been a very long time since I took that first step of entering a contest, I'm pretty sure little has changed. New guys feel like, well, new guys. Even if you arrive at the contest site already knowing five or six people, there are a ton of strangers you don't know at all. You don't even know where to sign up, assuming you still want to fly in front of what looks to be a bunch of escaped felons, all of whom appear able to fly at a level you had never considered as possible.

Worse, your model is not only a lowly profile, it's been bent pretty seriously a couple times. The various fixes applied are not particularly appealing even at a good distance. Close up they may well be nothing short of embarrassing.

This when all around you are beautiful models, in many cases being lovingly caressed, supposedly to clean off what appears to be an inconsequential amount of dirt, maybe even fly specks which are visible only to the owner/builder.

However, like all situations, there is another side to this view. Universally, all of those faces which are new to you belong to people who truly admire the sort of grit and dedication it takes to making a beginning in CL Stunt. That we were in your shoes at one point in time is self-evident; but we still remember what it was like that first time out.

I wish to make it exceedingly clear that not one of the more experienced fliers has the sort of hubris it would take to make judgments--as in none at all!--concerning you, your equipment or skill level in flying, most especially judgements based upon your model. Just the fact that you are there, model in hand and ready to give contest flying a try is more than enough proof that you're The Real Deal.

I am thinking back to 2004 Fall Follies. In fact, that contest was inspiration for this article, as we had a bunch of really good guys out for Beginner PA primarily, P-40 and Classic as secondary entries. While we're talking about a global view of New Folk in general, in this particular case it was Dave Wood, Greg Hart, Joe Just, Dave Miller and Bryan MacPhail.

There was a very large range in scores posted. No matter. The workmanship exhibited by the models varied quite a lot. Again, no matter. All that sucker needed to do was fly around level, maybe pull a loop or two. Just the fact these guys had a level of interest high enough to made the drive to Salem, Oregon--for several, in itself a consequential investment in time and money--and then to take center stage out there in middle of a very lonely circle said all we more experienced fliers wanted to hear.

This sort of thing hit a high for Fall Follies weekend when Dave Miller crashed. I looked away for a moment, prepping Dirtmobile for Mike Hazel; next time I saw Dave he was prepping a back-up model! Great stuff...

This was significant to me personally as on Saturday I had pulled from Classic after a relatively minor blade-blowing skip off the tarmac, model probably easily fixed with a little thin CA. Maybe five minutes work, minor adjustment to neutral at handle, I could have been ready for second round. What a wuss. Actually, it's worse: Mike Hazel was flying one of my models in Classic; with a simple change of handle I could have been back in the game.

Further--and this is a minor annoyance to me--I strongly urge all who are new to this hobby to not hesitate in asking for help. It's an annoyance as I will sometimes see a need for assistance, and my new friend will comment, "I don't want to bother anybody."

Wrong, wrong, wrong! There is not a single CL Stunt flier in the NW--not one!--who will fail you in doing whatever it takes to get your model flying or improved in some way. Some of us pack for contests as if we are off for a multi-contest three months of competition. That we have puhlenty of spare parts is a monstrous understatement.

So. Get that model to flying. Call on any of us for advice. Practice as much as practical, emphasis on reliability and consistency.

Then go to a contest. It's a great experience, along with teaching you more about CL models in one weekend than can be gained over months of sport flying.

In advance, Welcome to contest flying! You're going to have a great time...

Sure would appreciate it if you would drop my name once in a while. Can't hurt--might even help.

Dr. Spark

> Since we are being trashed on a few threads because we
>are regarded as the best of the best, I take offense at
>this. It is totally unwarranted! I have not been able to
>figure out where this comes from, must be envy!

I can tell you EXACTLY where it comes from. It's not envy. The A TACTIC devised to divide the members in to warring camps. If you divide the members into these camps. it's much easier to deflect the argument on the actual issues involved.

It's hardly a new idea. The same thing applies to East Coast/West Coast arguments, also devised to create an us VS. them argument so that supporters can be whipped into a frenzy, not about any real issue, but over perceived and alleged slights against other members of the same camp. And thus play the "victim card". A perfect example of this is the tendency to regard any disagreement (or even less-than-effusive praise) as a "vicious attack". Even if it's directly on point and not at all personal. So much the better to claim victimization.

I have had a bunch of emails just recently, from some of the past masters of this particular game, that brought it all back home again.

I know it's a completely lost cause for the "true beleivers" on either side, but I urge EVERYONE no matter what their opinion might be on any of the current issues, to REFUSE to play this game and instead argue points based on what you really think about them. Vigorous argument is not the same as a personal attack, and when someone claims to be personally offended by a differing or contrary opinion, 50/50 they're just trying to get you to shut up.

Hmmm,

This is funny...

Brett and I are not talking as we make our posts! In fact, we haven't spoken to each other in 5 months or so.

But I mention playing the "elitist card," he uses the "victim card," and he is one of the three guys helping Mr. Smiley.

Honestly, if we were coordinating this stuff, I would be sure to get myself placed in a much, much better light!

The only way in which I have been "victimized" in is having been bit by the Stunt bug and infected with the raging desire to become a member of the local "elite", at least !!!!

Brett,

I agree 100% with everything you say. However, I don't understand any of it. I don't take the term personally, but I believe the phraseology has created a misconception. All of us so-called "elitists" have lofty goals and will work hard to attain them. If it sounded like I was trying to shut people up, that was not the case. Me, you and all the rest who have worked hard to get where we are, are the same as the rank beginner; just more experienced. We like to help and we like to win. The two are not mutually exclusive!!

RJ;)

LAST EDITED ON Nov-20-04 AT 01:23 PM (CST)
 
Dear friends
I wanted to comment on a few issues--First and foremost is that Brett labored in the hot sun, and the end results were very postive..The Model flys much better that previously mentioned. I believe that 80% of the problem was attributed to the type and set-up of my handle. I am not endorsing or pitching products, but I will say that Ted's handle is excellent to say the least...By far the best handle I have ever used, and I have tried many...Attending a contest is an interesting affair: the stress, anxiety, coping W/various personalities, the pressure, are all present.
Brett went out of his way to assist, and the most important characteristic concerning being "helped" is the ability to respond to it. There was a time in my life when maybe I wasn't the best in this area..I want to personally thank Brett for his time and expertise.. This hobby benefits from individuals like him. This event attracts some very talented, and highly creative people, he is one..I and think & feel it is important to appropriately acknowledge the effort of someone, and do it openly... The "art" of helping, it is a skill, a talent, a strength. Let the healthy side of this event shine through...Brett appropriately addressed the technical aspects of the trimming process that took place on Sat. I just wanted to address the personal aspect of the process, which is just as important..Thanks Brett-
David.

I copied this post as it is appropriate at this time.
As David said, Brett labored in the hot sun not just a couple of minutes but 1/2 the day. I was there. In Davids words,"this hobby benefits from individuals like him". I saw it in action. Plane didn't fly all that well, but at the end it was quite capable of putting in a good pattern. I listened and paid attention and took what I gleaned from Brett and applied to my plane. And now it flys better also. Brett and David were strangers and I think met here on the forum as most of you remember. Most of the experts are more approachable than you think.

>I agree 100% with everything you say. However, I don't
>understand any of it. I don't take the term personally, but
>I believe the phraseology has created a misconception.

Which, I believe, is precisely the intent.

I once again urge EVERYONE to not fall for this. Take issues ON THEIR MERITS, not based on who supports them, how good a guy they might be (Ted Fancher, John Brodak, me, RJ, anyone), or what perceived "group" they come from.

A good idea is a good idea no matter what the source, and a bad idea is a bad idea no matter what the source.

>> Since we are being trashed on a few threads because we
>>are regarded as the best of the best, I take offense at
>>this. It is totally unwarranted! I have not been able to
>>figure out where this comes from, must be envy!
>
> I can tell you EXACTLY where it comes from. It's not
>envy. The A TACTIC devised to divide the members in to
>warring camps. If you divide the members into these camps.
>it's much easier to deflect the argument on the actual
>issues involved.
>
> It's hardly a new idea. The same thing applies to East
>Coast/West Coast arguments, also devised to create an us VS.
>them argument so that supporters can be whipped into a
>frenzy, not about any real issue, but over perceived and
>alleged slights against other members of the same camp. And
>thus play the "victim card". A perfect example of this is
>the tendency to regard any disagreement (or even
>less-than-effusive praise) as a "vicious attack". Even if
>it's directly on point and not at all personal. So much the
>better to claim victimization.
>
> I have had a bunch of emails just recently, from some
>of the past masters of this particular game, that brought it
>all back home again.
>
> I know it's a completely lost cause for the "true
>beleivers" on either side, but I urge EVERYONE no matter
>what their opinion might be on any of the current issues, to
>REFUSE to play this game and instead argue points based on
>what you really think about them. Vigorous argument is not
>the same as a personal attack, and when someone claims to be
>personally offended by a differing or contrary opinion,
>50/50 they're just trying to get you to shut up.
>
> Brett
>
>

Brett,
It is the old game of hammer and anvil: Between them the patient iron is forged into an indestructible whole, an individual with the power to vote.

I think I'll name my new plane:

The Elitist

Hey, could be cool.

And I agree with Bob and Brett. I'll help anyone that asks, though not many are all that interested in my help.

I myself have never found the so called elitist unapproachable. I was accused of being a snob and stuck up by a fellow that wound up being my racing pilot. I consider myself more of a pit man than a pilot. At the Nats when I had my "Doctor" there flying intermediate, I had just finished flying, when lo and behold Ted and David came down to see the competition. They were looking my Doctor over real good. Then I was told not to fly it again until I fixed the wing. The top spar had broken. Most all the top guys are great. Myself I am still a little shy. I know some will say that is hard to beleive. But, flying competition has changed this old farm boy alittle. Thanks to all the ELITIST from, DOC Holliday

Hi Bob,
I have been guilty of using the "Elite" word. I use it in the highest of positive terms. Having spent 45 years of my life (some would say wasted) in athletics, the term means to me the very best. I was considered one of the elite at one time. Still wish to someday be in the category in this event.
I will no longer use that term Elite here because of the negative connotation it has taken with the GREATS of our event.
You probably don't remember it but I met you at Vincennes (sp?) in '93 in front of your '57. (yes I remember it is protected by S&W! LOL!!) and talked a good while about your Dago Red.
I know pretty well several, and have at least met, all of the top pilots in this event other than Bart. I hope to meet him before it is all over. All you guys are "human" more than "approchable".
But, I do have enough sense to know that I am not going to introduce myself, or probably even talk, to someone while they are preparing for an official unless I know them real well.
All the best,
Bill <><

LAST EDITED ON Nov-20-04 AT 01:31 PM (CST)
 
Bob, I don't know you personally but I think that one of the statements in your original post can be interpreted as negative or a minimum provocative and goes a long way in perpetuating the elitist accusations. Let me try to demonstrate what I mean.

And, yeah, we Elitists did invent PAMPA and we're proud of it! It pains us to see a possible downward trend of late to what has and is regarded as the Premier SIG in AMA.

You are setting yourself apart from the rest of us. The "we versus them." We being the original members of PAMPA and "them" being the rest of us. So it doesn't take much of a leap for ...if we aren't the "founding fathers" we are the bad guys who are ruining this wonderful organization.

I hope you can see how this sort of rhetoric can fan the flames. I get this visual of a group of original guys sitting around in a small, smoked filled room grumping about how our organization has gone down the dumper since we opened the doors to all this riff-raff.

Even if I substitute the word elitist with some less inflammatory noun it still smells of an attitude of we invented it and you guys are going to ruin it. The "Good Ole Boy's Club mentality. Certainly is an invitation to be considered elitist, arrogant.... you pick.

As far as offering help, this isn’t always an act of unselfish kindness. I’ve had experts in other hobbies (motocross racing for example) offer me all sorts of help. Mostly unsolicited and generally an attempt on their part to clearly demonstrate their “superior” knowledge to anyone within shouting distance.

So maybe what you said was how you really feel, but understand that all things are subject to interpretation.

Wow, I don't know where this eletist stuff comes from and I don't think it exists. All you so call eletists (regular C/L flyers to me) have been most kind to offer any help I have ever needed, and that was after announcing I was a mear Sport Flyer. Thank you one and all, don't let the butt-heads start this sh-t, for they know not what they do, out of pure ignorance. Keep on keeping on men.
Jerry Bohn (Advanced Sport Flyer, thanks to you all)

Too bad there aren't any elite flyers within my immediate area or I'd perhaps get motivated to do a little more practicing and go to a meet. That in itself would be a hoot as I haven't gone to other then a funfly in years and one foxberg race 2 years ago. Of course Ferocious is 45 miles away and his club flies fairly regularly but I never can get the time to get there or for that matter schedule any time anywhere because of my Vamperic work schedule
Hate to say but but your terminology needs work Elite dosn't offend me but if your flying at the top of the profession you are a 'pro 'professional. Just too bad that your in a 'profession' that dosn't have prize,prestige and promotion in it. Kind of like Discus or Javelin throwing at the Olympics.
But most everyone that I ever met in the hobby that has been in it awhile has been more then helpful and for whatever reason that you may fathom that the person helping you has, be grateful for the help offered, and make sure that you offer the same help to others when the opportunity is there. OK?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the word 'elite'. It is a true compliment, when it applies.

'Elitism', on the other hand is (according to the online dictionary): The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.

Such comments as "And, yeah, we Elitists did invent PAMPA and we're proud of it! It pains us to see a possible downward trend of late to what has and is regarded as the Premier SIG in AMA." might tend to give the wrong impression.

As far as the invention of PAMPA, before anyone pats themself on the back too hard, I'd like to remind everyone that a major factor, perhaps the main one responsible for PAMPA's success, has been the Stunt News. And one man most responsible for Stunt News is Tom Morris (from whom we haven't heard..).

[photo not recovered: 3e69bb3870f12ad5.jpg]

"Dignity does not consist in possessing honors, but in deserving them." -Aristotle

>As far as the invention of PAMPA, before anyone pats
>themself on the back too hard,

Uh, PAMPA was "invented" in 1974 by Keith Trostle, Wynn Paul, Al Rabe, and others. There can be no doubt about that.

I would like to give credit for it being "reinvented"/revived in the mid/late 80's by Don McClave and Tom Dixon, and later Ted. The organization had fallen into significant "disrepair" after Wynn left as editor in 1982 or 3, and was in sorry shape in a few years.

And whether you like him, or consider him the devil incarnate, Frank McMillan has to be given full credit for keeping the whole thing from blowing up under the recriminations and afteraffects of the "ST60 vs. TP" wars.

>I'd like to remind everyone
>that a major factor, perhaps the main one responsible for
>PAMPA's success, has been the Stunt News. And one man most
>responsible for Stunt News is Tom Morris (from whom we
>haven't heard..).
>

That's true enough. Tom (and editors Will and Kenny) are the visible part of the iceberg, and they deserve a very large share of the credit. Shareen is the invisible part - and while it doesn't show to the same degree, I give her a very large fraction of the credit for the thing running as smoothly and professionally as they do. It's FAR more than people really grasp.

O.K., Apologies to any of those that feel they need them to get thru the day. I appreciate the definition and understand the difference and that's why I used it in the particular way I did. How many different ways can we say that PAMPA is for competitors, is aimed at people wishing to be winners and not just for those that want to belong to a social organization? Yes, PAMPA is for anyone that wants to improve what they do and that means STUNT! Sure, it's nice to have as many members as we can so long as they are competition minded. For the weekend sport flyers, PAMPA is not geared for that. Sure, there is a lot of stuff in SN that will help anyone, that's one real good reason to belong, just to get the Mag. What gets me worked up are the people that do not compete yet just because they have joined PAMPA they seem to think they can change the intent of the SIG. If they want a sport flyers SIG, fine, put one together and have a great time. Leave the competition to those that have a legitimate reason to want a SIG like PAMPA. That's why it was invented in the first place. I still don't understand why you non-competitive types want to change something that ISN'T BROKEN! Bob Whitely

Dear Bob,

The fact of the matter is that PAMPA has changed. It now includes 2000 people, many of whom (probably most) are not dedicated competition flyers. For many reasons I think we have a common ground making our sport stronger. It's a matter of thinking this through and being productive in our approach.

LAST EDITED ON Nov-20-04 AT 11:39 PM (CST)
 
>Dear Bob,
>
>The fact of the matter is that PAMPA has changed. It now
>includes 2000 people, many of whom (probably most) are not
>dedicated competition flyers. For many reasons I think we
>have a common ground making our sport stronger. It's a
>matter of thinking this through and being productive in our
>approach.
>
>Dennis Moritz

PAMPA has not changed. It is the SIG to the AMA for CLPA. That is what it is. Now the membership has changed some due to its growth. But PAMPA's job is to Represent all CLPA pilots to the AMA. As a by-product the newsletter SN is sent out every two months. This is where the sport fliers come in. Let's face it Sport flying and stunt are very close relatives. But in the end if there was no SN there would be almost no sport fliers in PAMPA. Just CLPA fliers. The sport fliers and their VALUED input in SN may have changed the FACE of PAMPA but this does not and will not change its true meaning. This isnt a diss on anyone but the truth. I love SN and all it has to offer and I value all of the input alike.

Bob,

Post 19 was a very good one.

LAST EDITED ON Nov-20-04 AT 04:45 PM (CST)
 
No there have been dismissive statements by some about sport flyers or those who are not serious enough about competition (in their view). Elitist is a term that describes behavior, not accomplishment. I used the term elitist a while ago when describing what i thought was the attitude of a few towards the lesser accomplished builders and flyers. Mainly, a failure to understand the value of including builders and flyers in PAMPA who do this as a hobby and a pleasure. People who I believe are enthusiasts and supporters of competition stunt (they understand what the letters stand for) but do it at sport-stunt/beginner/intermediate level.

I agree most competitors are generous and supportive. There's a lot of valuable information supplied on this forum when questions are asked. Thanks. In my opinion we all have a lot of reasons to be in this together and think about what's best for our organization. Many of us who do not fly or build at the top level have valuable life experiences and talents relevant to PAMPA. Some of us also know how to have a good time. From my experience those who do this at a lower level of accomplishment appreciate and support those who do it best.

DennisM,

If this is an apology or an explanation, it falls quite short in making up for some of your statements over the past two or three weeks.

LAST EDITED ON Nov-20-04 AT 04:43 PM (CST)
 
No apologies. I maintain my right to rant and provoke just as you do. Simply trying to find another way to make this discussion. One that looks towards our common interests, which are obvious.

>As far as the invention of PAMPA, before anyone pats
>themself on the back too hard, I'd like to remind everyone
>that a major factor, perhaps the main one responsible for
>PAMPA's success, has been the Stunt News. And one man most
>responsible for Stunt News is Tom Morris (from whom we
>haven't heard..).
>

Larry - please let me make a suggestion. If Stunt News is that much of a success, is there a way to post one as an example on the PAMPA site? Perhaps a PDF file, or at least some example articles. There are some of us out here weighing all sorts of options of what to do with our limited disposable income.

If Stunt News is the biggest hook that PAMPA has, then some bait should be on that hook.

There are lots of PAMPA members in your area, ask one of them to lend you some back issues.

>There are lots of PAMPA members in your area, ask one of
>them to lend you some back issues.
>
>Don

Thank you for the kind suggestion, but exactly my point:

1. It does not appear that the member list is available to non-members. How do I find one of these non-members, and especially their address or phone number?
2. You have to assume that as a curious non-member "stranger," I would have to make a huge imposition on both sides to borrow a personal possession.

These days, you might even need naive trust to do such a thing. Even if I actually know some of these people, a curious lurker would never ask in the first place.

Samples are one of the best ways to market a product. If that product is published media, then a web site is a no-brainer.

Hi Tom, You need to work a little harder than just typing your questions on this board. A couple of things come to mind, such as personal initiative, get out of your chair and go to the local flying field (you do have one, right?) and actually act like you want to learn about PAMPA. Locate anyone that appears to you to be flying a Stunt model and ask some pertinent questions (the ones you would like answers to). If you really are interested in this thing called PAMPA and not just trying to get something for nothing, this approach will work. Obviously, if you do NOt want to be a self starter, we are not going to spoon feed this stuff to you. Go ahead, get motivated, you might actually find out what's going on besides just reading about it. It's not all that difficult if you get my drift. Bob Whitely

LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-04 AT 09:19 AM (CST)
 
>Hi Tom, You need to work a little harder than just typing
>your questions on this board. A couple of things come to
>mind, such as personal initiative, get out of your chair
>and go to the local flying field (you do have one, right?)
>and actually act like you want to learn about PAMPA. Locate
>anyone that appears to you to be flying a Stunt model and
>ask some pertinent questions (the ones you would like
>answers to). If you really are interested in this thing
>called PAMPA and not just trying to get something for
>nothing, this approach will work. Obviously, if you do NOt
>want to be a self starter, we are not going to spoon feed
>this stuff to you. Go ahead, get motivated, you might
>actually find out what's going on besides just reading about
>it. It's not all that difficult if you get my drift. Bob
>Whitely

Man, oh, man. Try to relate. I've been flying control line since the mid-60's, and I believe I know who you are, and probably have some pictures. I've competed, started a club before, and even conducted contests!?

Look before you speak. I was making a simple suggestion to put a digital sample on the web site, and trying to describe the issues that newcomers (or returning oldtimers) have in trying to start up the hobby.

Tim MicTigue's post #2 is enlightening on the following thread:
http://clstunt.com/htdocs/dcforum/DCForumID1/11362.html

My gosh ...

It's worth it, otherwise there wouldn't be this much energy being spent to opeate, and want to take over, the SIG and produce SN.
Chris...

To all the previous posts on this thing. How come nobody mentions Windy when talking about PAMPA? He was the communication link when the newsletter was stopped. Then Tom took over and made it a class act. I thank both of them for their efforts. As far as the sport flyer wanting to change PAMPA and Stunt News, I say go jump in the lake and think about what you trying to do. I also say go get a subscription to Flying Models or join AMA for the Model Aviation Magazine and let them know you fly control line. I have been a subscriber to Flying Models since mid 50's, because, they always had a control line article. Also AMA since 56 because license was needed to take part in contests and local club required it. Anybody remember the old Flying Eagles of Kansas City, Kansas. They would help newcomers and also put on an annual show for the cities under previlaged kids. So lets end this garbage of sport flyer and elitist. -----DOC

>To all the previous posts on this thing. How come nobody
>mentions Windy when talking about PAMPA? He was the
>communication link when the newsletter was stopped. Then
>Tom took over and made it a class act. I thank both of them
>for their efforts. As far as the sport flyer wanting to
>change PAMPA and Stunt News, I say go jump in the lake and
>think about what you trying to do. I also say go get a
>subscription to Flying Models or join AMA for the Model
>Aviation Magazine and let them know you fly control line. I
>have been a subscriber to Flying Models since mid 50's,
>because, they always had a control line article. Also AMA
>since 56 because license was needed to take part in contests
>and local club required it. Anybody remember the old Flying
>Eagles of Kansas City, Kansas. They would help newcomers
>and also put on an annual show for the cities under
>previlaged kids. So lets end this garbage of sport flyer
>and elitist. -----DOC

It's nice to re-live the nostalgia, but it's not reality. Most people don't even know Flying Models Magazine exists. You have to go to a real newstand to find it. Even RC Modeler and MAN are difficult to find unless you go to a bookstore, and neither mentions control line.

The interested hobbyist won't even join the AMA (or know what it is) except that it's the first requirement at the local RC field.

LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-04 AT 09:35 AM (CST)
 
Since we are being trashed on a few threads because we
>are regarded as the best of the best, I take offense at
>this. It is totally unwarranted! I have not been able to
>figure out where this comes from, must be envy!

Could be you calling people "wannabees", "nobody's" and the like.

Or maybe ranting in Nats EC meeting about how the Nats is not for the lower skill classes, but solely for the function of crowning a National Championship.

Or possibly how you feel that the more skillful fliers put in more effort and deserve special treatment.

I find it interesting that you would be the originator of such a post. You seem to be one of the only guys who openly admits his feelings of superiority.

Yo, Godzilla, Take a breath, count to ten and lets see if I can help you understand why I feel as strongly about this as some others. Yeah, I did say "wannabees" as relates to those that seem to want a trophy without doing what it takes to get one. Hey, enter the contest, and I want a trophy just cause I'm here. That dog won't hunt. Nat's EC meeting: For some reason I got the impression that beginner, novice, advanced etc felt they should be given the same respect as the JSO competitors. Nope, ain't gonna happen! You did get one thing right, the Nat's is to crown the National Champion and not a learning experience. As a Nats entrant you better be ready to fly with the best as the Nat's winners are the best OR THEY WOULDN"T WIN! All the skill classes are learning classes. You should feel privileged that wde have included them at all. As for special treatment, that's your phrase, not mine. You want to fly on the l-pad, that's special treatment. If you want to fly on the pad, enter Open, be glad to have you. If you think you can beat me or any of the other Open guys, go for it. As for superiority, sorry you feel that way about me. If you choose to feel inferior I can't help you fix that. Mostly if you learn to fly better these problems almost surely will go away. Next time you see me at a contest, come over and introduce yourself. You may find that you have misjudged me. Bob Whitely:7

Bob,Bob,Bob,

How could anyone misjudge you. Your my hero.

Gordy

>Bob,Bob,Bob,
>
>How could anyone misjudge you. Your my hero.
>
>Gordy

Thanks Gordy, all you guys that fly stunt are mine. --DOC Holliday

>Bob,Bob,Bob,
>
>How could anyone misjudge you. Your my hero.
>
>Gordy

Likewise....When I was just a kid just starting in this event, I was honored to watch RJ win most of the competitions in So. Cal. I also had the pleasure of being beat upon (in competition only) by Ted.

Both of you guys are my HERO's.

I too was once a "bottom feeder". How did that change? By complaining and whining? No chance...Nothing to gain. Then how? By keeping an open mind, watching, and working to improve, futher enhanced by more watching and keeping the mind open until things improved. Even today, it is still important to watch and keep an open mind. I suggest that approach for anyone WISHING to improve.

>Bob,Bob,Bob,
>
>How could anyone misjudge you. Your my hero.
>
>Gordy

No, YOU are MY hero.

Bob,

I knew you would get home from the field soon.
I love this stuff.
Finally.
Reality.

LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-04 AT 02:50 PM (CST)
 
You did get
>one thing right, the Nat's is to crown the National Champion
>and not a learning experience. As a Nats entrant you better
>be ready to fly with the best as the Nat's winners are the
>best OR THEY WOULDN"T WIN! All the skill classes are
>learning classes. You should feel privileged that we have
>included them at all.

Who's WE Whitely?

The elitists?

Is anyone else getting this? Bob is saying the lower skill classes should feel privileged that "they" allowed you to fly on "their" pad. Why do I have to explain any further? I think the "elitist" tag fits pretty nice.

As far as the "wannabees" comment, I think that you directed these comments directly at some folks during one of the original BOM discussions on this board, and it was not a general comment pertaining to your philosophy as you alluded to in your response. Face it, you were making personal comments directed at specific folks.

The most laughable thing is that one of the main "wannabees" has been whipping you pretty good ever since.

Yo, Brad, I think you're finally getting it! The food chain is always top to bottom, top getting what they want, bottom getting....you know where I'm going. Now if you can figure out where you fit in the chain, we sometimes call that an epiphany. As for "wannabees" it's like Popeye said "I am what I am!" In this case they are what they are. However, I applaud anyone one of them that breaks out of that rut and actually starts doing more than just talking. Since I have not had the dubious pleasure of making your actual acquaintance I would not recognize you. Were you at the now infamous EC meeting? If not and you were only able to get to see it second hand, then you heard what I said. Take it to the bank. As for getting whipped by a "wannabee", that seriously makes my day! Means he/she is one of the ones that finally gets it as opposed to all the rest that don't. Just one other question, have you ever been to the Nats, and if so did you compete? I could very easily have glossed over your name and that wouldn't have been right. I do appreciate your sincere concerns and now look forward to some rational input. Could be, you may be correct about something. I'd really like to know what that would be. Bob Whitely AKA "Iceman" or just "Ice" to my friends.

So if I understand you, there are about two people in this world who call you "Ice" and with such an arrogant attitude there must be hundreds who use another three letter word begining with an A..

LAST EDITED ON Nov-22-04 AT 01:39 PM (CST)
 
Ice,
Did you see this? This is a mole for sure!!!
Chris...

Kind regards, claus

LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-04 AT 03:42 PM (CST)
 
Once again, it's all too obvious to whom Godzilla is talking.

Uh, "ranting" in the EC meetings? You know of this how? Personal experience? Or a guy who might just "accidentally" leave a running video camera in the room where EC meeting was to take place?

Ya know, some of your questions were answered in the minutes of each EC meeting, as they are published in Stunt News. Oh, that's right, like some of the other things you claim not to have seen in SN, for a period of time you were actually quite vocal about *not* being a PAMPA member, and so of course there are a lot of things you never saw in SN. You weren't getting it! Literally and figuratively...

LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-04 AT 04:03 PM (CST)
 
>Uh, "ranting" in the EC meetings? You know of this how?
>Personal experience? Or a guy who might just "accidentally"
>leave a running video camera in the room where EC meeting
>was to take place?

No, I have the DVD, available from JOHN BRODAK.

For this year's meeting the video was official. Brodak made it so.

Strike two Dan!!!!

Maybe you should "talk" to more than yourself and your small circle of friends, you MIGHT LEARN SOMETHING!!! Might put to rest some of the hearsay you keep regurgitating, since you appear to do little of YOUR OWN HOMEWORK!!!

Did you see Whitely deny saying these things in the EC meeting? No, in fact he confirmed the fact, and repeated the same statements!!! You appear to have skipped over this fact, and went right to trying to discredit me.

You responses are becoming very predictable. Take what I say, infer that I am a Brodak or Peabody flunky, and pat yourself on he back for being so smart.

Are you seeking me out in the threads? You really have no input into the discussion except to attack me, in general. It seems to be your gig these days to simply jump in, say something about my credibility (which you have zero, so how can you measure mine), and jump back out again.

>>Uh, "ranting" in the EC meetings? You know of this how?
>>Personal experience? Or a guy who might just "accidentally"
>>leave a running video camera in the room where EC meeting
>>was to take place?
>
>No, I have the DVD, available from JOHN BRODAK.
>
>For this year's meeting the video was official. Brodak made
>it so.

And that's fine. I stand by my actions, and am not in the least concerned about what the video shows. Bob got his say, which I believe was the intent of our allegedly "new" open policy. Other people got their say. For the most part it seemed a quite fruitful meeting.

You can't both have a "we value all opinions" policy and then jump down someone's throat for expressing it. Or it becomes a "we value all opinions except for those I don't happen to agree with, in which case we brook no opposition" policy.

Bob got his say,
>which I believe was the intent of our allegedly "new" open
>policy. Other people got their say. For the most part it
>seemed a quite fruitful meeting.
>
> You can't both have a "we value all opinions" policy and
>then jump down someone's throat for expressing it. Or it
>becomes a "we value all opinions except for those I don't
>happen to agree with, in which case we brook no opposition"
>policy.

Now wait, I am supposed to respect Bob's position? Why? He does not respect mine. Respect breeds respect. I do not ever recall calling Whitely any names or attacking him. He is the hard charger standing up in the meeting and making sure everyone hears his opinion, then I am not supposed to respond and say what he said sounds very "elitist" to me.

Hey, Bob started the thread.

> Bob got his say,
>>which I believe was the intent of our allegedly "new" open
>>policy. Other people got their say. For the most part it
>>seemed a quite fruitful meeting.
>>
>> You can't both have a "we value all opinions" policy and
>>then jump down someone's throat for expressing it. Or it
>>becomes a "we value all opinions except for those I don't
>>happen to agree with, in which case we brook no opposition"
>>policy.
>
>Now wait, I am supposed to respect Bob's position? Why?

Because he's been earning respect in this event since before you were born. That could be one reason. If Bob hasn't earned your respect, then I guess that's up to you. You *could* respect his opinion and still disagree with it.

But I wasn't referring to your personal opinion, I was referring to PAMPA's policy. We decided to have allegedly "new" open communications. Well, Bob communicated something. I thought that was the goal. So instead of attacking the messenger, perhaps we ought to instead argue his position.

He is factually correct in stating that the purpose of the NATs is to choose the National Champion, not to have a backyard fun-fly. That weighs heavily in his favor.

But I would not go as far as he does in concern over the impact of the inclusion of the other classes. In fact, this year was the first time I thought that having Advanced as an official event has had even a slight effect on the results in Open, and it was clearly an odd and unlikely-to-be-repeated situation. That's just my opinion.

Hi Brett, Again I agree with your thoughts. And I don't really have a problem with Skill classes at the Nats with one exception. When Peabody started talking about wanting to fly Intermediate on the pad, even that was not a problem. It does become a problem when it infringes on the higher classes. It seemed obvious that there is only so much room on the pads. Same old thing, can't put 10# in a 5# jar and all that.I reckon I didn't much care for the way it was presented, like "Why can't we play in the big sandbox even though we are not at the big sandbox level yet?" Of course I would like to see everyone get exactly what they want all the time, but we have to be realistic. It's the real world, let's enjoy what we have. I did and still do have a great time! I hope the rest of you feel the same and not to take any of this too seriously 'cause I sure don't. Bob Whitely

>>Uh, "ranting" in the EC meetings? You know of this how?
>>Personal experience? Or a guy who might just "accidentally"
>>leave a running video camera in the room where EC meeting
>>was to take place?
>
>No, I have the DVD, available from JOHN BRODAK.
>
>For this year's meeting the video was official. Brodak made
>it so.
>
>Strike two Dan!!!!

Now Mr. Walker, are you claiming to have a DVD of the 2004 EC meeting? Uh, the one Mr. Brodak cancelled? That must be quite the amusing thing to watch...

Please revise and extend your strike count.

How does just saying it is make the video an official? The bylaws say the secretary/treasurer shall keep an accurate record of the proceedings---. Look it up. That is the official record, the bylaws do not recognize any other media. Then go back and read the minutes as posted in Stunt News.

>How does just saying it is make the video an official? The
>bylaws say the secretary/treasurer shall keep an accurate
>record of the proceedings---. Look it up. That is the
>official record, the bylaws do not recognize any other
>media. Then go back and read the minutes as posted in Stunt
>News.

Correct, the minutes are the official record. I think Brad was referring to the fact that, THIS TIME, it was not done covertly. As opposed to the 2002 EC meeting, where someone, no doubt accidentally, left the camera running with the lens cap accidentally on making it look like it had been set up and left for the later public meeting. And at some point was noticed to be accidentally on and then not-so-accidentally turned off.

I have no problem at all with the public meetings being taped. Show them, transcribe them, distribute to whomever you want. As long as it's *unedited*.

>Now Mr. Walker, are you claiming to have a DVD of the 2004
>EC meeting? Uh, the one Mr. Brodak cancelled? That must be
>quite the amusing thing to watch...
>

OOPS! You mean the one that was cancelled, but wait, no, it wasn't, it was held in the open - as interpreted a month AFTERWARDS?

But I really don't think semantics is what we ought to be arguing here. It doesn't help anything except the "gotcha" score - and frankly, I think we've had enough of that to last us all a lifetime.

Wait Dan,

Brad isn't a PAMPA member? He told me in a post on another thread that when he and Gieseke were teaching Moon the pattern that he was a member. I'm confused,...not?!

His name is in the 2004 membership book, But as usual his posts have
gone down to there usual level, that being nah nah nah, mines bigger
than yours. I think its time for him to take his binki, and blanket and go for a nap. I suspect that there will be some incoming soon.

>Wait Dan,
>
>Brad isn't a PAMPA member? He told me in a post on another
>thread that when he and Gieseke were teaching Moon the
>pattern that he was a member. I'm confused,...not?!
>
>Chris...

Oh, now I am liar? Fabricating tales just to make my point?

No, reality has always been stranger than fiction when it comes to stunt.

I have been in PAMPA off and on since 1989 oor 1990. When I joined it was typed and copied and about 10 pages.

I never taught Doug anything in the pattern. I saw him crash once when he was a teenager. I have been flying with Bob off and on since 1989.

If there was something that Dan could have informed me about, as far as referencing the meeting minutes for example, he made sure not to do anything constructive at the time. I forget things that I read, especially in magazines (it is not a full time job for to argue with Dan).

I am not sure why you think, I do not "like" PAMPA. I guess that I have mixed feelings about the methods of some of the members. The word PAMPA is used all to often to represent one or two people.

>Wait Dan,
>
>Brad isn't a PAMPA member? He told me in a post on another
>thread that when he and Gieseke were teaching Moon the
>pattern that he was a member. I'm confused,...not?!
>
>Chris...

Chris,

I am sure Brad is currently a PAMPA member. My reference was oblique in that on at least one other thread he made a big deal out of never having seen something or other in Stunt News. And my second thought was, "Yeah, ya big lug, you used to brag about *not* belonging to PAMPA, some sort of problem with Frank, known far and wide as an exceedingly difficult man to get along with."*

And if you're confused, it would be a first as far as I am concerned.

Dan

*Frank is one of the nicest guys on the planet. Just don't want my sarcasm to set anybody off. Be way too much like using my Bad Boy Stunt column to abuse someone like Warren Tiahrt, getting called on it by 14 stellar individuals, and then just blowing the whole deal off. Can't have that, ya know...

Hey Dirt, How're we doing? So far it's about 53 to 3 and getting better! Ice

>>
>I am sure Brad is currently a PAMPA member. My reference was
>oblique in that on at least one other thread he made a big
>deal out of never having seen something or other in Stunt
>News. And my second thought was, "Yeah, ya big lug, you used
>to brag about *not* belonging to PAMPA, some sort of problem
>with Frank, known far and wide as an exceedingly difficult
>man to get along with."*
>
>And if you're confused, it would be a first as far as I am
>concerned.
>
>Dan

I agree. I called Chris last night and we talked for a couple hours. Very cool guy, with lots of good perspective on things. He has really been around. I learned a lot, and I think he did too.

The West Coastie with the mostie (that's a joke). The story of the life of stunt in California puts a lot of perspective to a lot of things.

Way cool, nicely done

LAST EDITED ON Nov-22-04 AT 03:13 PM (CST)
 
glad i was able to edit these out....jim

LAST EDITED ON Nov-22-04 AT 03:10 PM (CST)
 
sorry ted n bob

Hi Jim, Thanks (I think) for your outlook on things. I started this thread in response to the guys that think we are what they think we are. I purposely try to energize some people to do more than just ramble (in my case, rant) about whatever bothers them. Once in awhile something kinda neat turns up. I will tell you for sure, Ted would not snub anyone, I would like to have seen the situation you were in for that to happen. Onwards and upward (aaargh!), did some say you used to fly around El Camino JC in the 50s? If so, do you remember Bobs' Hobbies (no relation) on Redondo Beach Blvd? After all the preceeding rhetoric I think we have come to the useful end of this thread.

Here is some CMA (cover my ..........) stuff. I was accused once of thinking I was the Alfadawg and got stuck with it. Guess it irritates some, never even gave it a second thought. I would hope it would make others try and do better just to prove a point. As for all the rest of the stuff, for me it's a really fun time trying to understand the personalities and just plain having a good time. Bob

Hi Bob
Just wanted to state a few things---As far as the "Elitist" issue..The language or "Phraseolgy" used to describe the more competitve types within the ranks of PAMPA is and can be provokative..I think it comes with the territory, meaning that competitors with longevity-(like yourself)who year after year express their talents in the competitive arena eventually get tagged with labels that are not only inaccurate, but untrue..The definition of "eltitist" does not describe/define you, or for that matter, anyone I have ever encountered who flew at the expert National level..What happens Bob is people start respondoing to the "label" and not the person, and everything becomes blurred at that point...
Bob, 25 years ago at miles square park, you were the one who introduced me to the finer points of trim..Myself, Chris M. flew models you built and gave way..Somehow, I have a hard time associating "Elititist" with that type of behavior..In a sense Bob you could be considered part of an "elite" group of flyers who like I said earlier, do this year after year in the competitive arena..That is reality, and also an aspect of the definition "elite" which is positive. If you take the time to look at the difinition of the term "Elitist" you would see: "Elite: part of a group known as the "best")..However, this does not mean you look to control PAMPA based on your talents or competitive goals--That type of behavior would define being an "elitist"..There is a big difference!!..If it were not for the so-called "elite group of flyers" of PAMPA, and you know who you are, stunt would not be where it is now..
Nobody should feel ashamed at being identified as being part of that elite group of flyers..It is a tribute to the work you and many others have put into to this hobby..Maybe someday my work will place me into that so-called elite group of flyers...So I believe that clarification is needed when we toss words around like "Elitist".
Especially, when we negatively define or describe hard working members of our organization..Bob be proud of your long hard fought accomplishments, you have earned a place in that elite group of flyers who do this year after year after year...Thanks for all your help over those years, as a matter of fact you introduced me to carbon pushrods over 20 years ago, when the flexing of my model's controls was a problem...Elite flyer, yes you are, an elitist, no way....Thanks David..

LAST EDITED ON Nov-22-04 AT 04:43 PM (CST)
 
oooohh...bob...give me a sec to wipe th egg of my face...i aint changed a darn bit have i?...im sorry about th post...(to much time playin internet warrior in chat rooms)it was that screename...it said "attack attack attack" lol sorry...i should have said "yep ur right bob...its always been that way...some people are just like that...pidgeonholing others before they get to know them"...guess i have to plead guilty to that....again ....ted,bob and everyone else ive offended...sorry for goin off on a rant half cocked...jim(th mudslinger)ivey

LAST EDITED ON Nov-22-04 AT 09:57 PM (CST)
 
deleted by Ted

LAST EDITED ON Nov-22-04 AT 12:36 PM (CST)
 
Ted, as always the gentleman even under attack.

I don't normally get into these frays, they have a smell to them I dislike. But after all the slinging of "air mud balls" I just reached the point where I have to make a statement.

I've been a modeler all my life in all the disciplines. I've flown competitively all the way to the National level and have been successful enough (not in stunt) to be labeled "elitist" should anyone imagine a target on my chest and want to take a cheap shot.

Statement: In all those years I can honestly say that I can count the number of "elitists" I've met on one hand, and that with my fist clinched.

The source of these alegations can be from those that feel inadequate, threated and want to built themselves up by taring someone else down. The problem is the when ever they put out the bait someone is quick to take it. Its like getting attention in the media, if they were really given the attention they deserved, no one would notice because no one would report it. Answering these things in this public forum never solves anything and gets attention for the attention seekers at the expense on those trying futily to defend against false accusations.

All the "elite" I have met in all disciplines have been gentlemen and I expect if I ever met one that wasn't I'd find it hard to believe.

LAST EDITED ON Nov-22-04 AT 04:31 PM (CST)
 
ted...this makes the 2nd egg ive had to wipe off my face...im very sorry about that post...someone else said it was you...and th guy was flying an aries...ive never met ya...and probaly should have made sure it was you before i opend my yap...th dennis i was referring to was dennis alford...not dennis shauer...that dennis succombed to diabietes a few years ago...he was a life long diabetic...as im sure you know...but...2 out of 3 aint good enough to make me right...so i am truly sorry for being so rude....i hereby apoligize to you in public...i accused you unjustly...after seeing ur post...im certain you wouldnt have behaved the way that guy did...jim

LAST EDITED ON Nov-22-04 AT 05:26 PM (CST)
 
Never mind.

I guess the comparison I was making
is too obscure.

>Wow, sounds just like the amateur radio forums
>here. If you take the following quote,
>
>>Yeah, I did say "wannabees" as relates to those that seem to want a
>>trophy without doing what it takes to get one.
>
>and substitute LICENSE for trophy, this is
>what is argued ad-nauseum concerning code/no-code
>on the amateur radio groups.
>
>.-.. --- .-..
>--... ...--

Hi
What does this mean, in relation to the topic? Because of my extremely low abstract ability, it sounds mildly cryptic..Thanks David

LAST EDITED ON Nov-22-04 AT 05:24 PM (CST)
 
Never mind, Pt. 2

LAST EDITED ON Nov-22-04 AT 04:57 PM (CST)
 
dave...dont get caught like i did....bob knows me and maybe larry also...ive got lots of trophys...some national,s.w.m.c.,state,ect mostly for stunt...56 when i quit in 1961...dont think i qualify as a "wannabee"..."ustabee" is ok....jim

>dave...dont get caught like i did....bob knows me and maybe
>larry also...ive got lots of trophys...some
>national,s.w.m.c.,state,ect mostly for stunt...56 when i
>quit in 1961...dont think i qualify as a
>"wannabee"..."ustabee" is ok....jim

Jim
I have no idea what you mean..That is not my thread--I think it is important that you really assess before you respond- That quote that is above the thread I entered is a response or quote I believe you had stated in an earlier entry.....The term "Wannabe's" is something I belive you stated in one of your threads'...
I have no problem apoligizing for my responses if needed, however, I think you may be confused...Thanks DAvid...

nope sorry not me boss...jim

LAST EDITED ON Nov-22-04 AT 09:53 PM (CST)
 
its hard not to get a little bit of an "elitist" attitude when you reach that level of skill where barring accidents...you know your always gonna win something...confidence like that shows...and some resent that...just do what u think is right and try not to let it bother u...jim

>>Wow, sounds just like the amateur radio forums
>>here. If you take the following quote,
>>
>>>Yeah, I did say "wannabees" as relates to those that seem to want a
>>>trophy without doing what it takes to get one.
>>
>>and substitute LICENSE for trophy, this is
>>what is argued ad-nauseum concerning code/no-code
>>on the amateur radio groups.
>>
>>.-.. --- .-.. (Jim the above thread is not my entry)
>>--... ...--
>
>Hi
>What does this mean, in relation to the topic? Because of my
>extremely low abstract ability, it sounds mildly
>cryptic..Thanks David
This is my entry Jim

Jim I think you are confused about how qoutes' from other threads are utilized--You were responding to the above first entry and making me the owner, which is not true..So look again, so you can clarify the situation please..Thanks DAvid

yep...i see what u mean...i also didnt make that wannabee remark...i scrolled back ...it was someone else...but i did say some things i shouldn't have...and for those i apoligize...jim

>yep...i see what u mean...i also didnt make that wannabee
>remark...i scrolled back ...it was someone else...but i did
>say some things i shouldn't have...and for those i
>apoligize...jim

Jim
Thanks for the apology--I make more mistakes than not--Hope to see you flying at the field--I do not recall talking to you at Hi Johnson contest? Maybe so...Anyway, see you at the next one...David

>ted...this makes the 2nd egg ive had to wipe off my
>face...im very sorry about that post...someone else said it
>was you...and th guy was flying an aries...ive never met
>ya...and probaly should have made sure it was you before i
>opend my yap...th dennis i was referring to was dennis
>alford...not dennis shauer...that dennis succombed to
>diabietes a few years ago...he was a life long diabetic...as
>im sure you know...but...2 out of 3 aint good enough to make
>me right...so i am truly sorry for being so rude....i hereby
>apoligize to you in public...i accused you unjustly...after
>seeing ur post...im certain you wouldnt have behaved the way
>that guy did...jim

Jim

Apology accepted.

If you do see me at a contest please say Hi and we can shake hands and talk about the good old days. I think we probably have more in common than most.

LAST EDITED ON Nov-22-04 AT 09:56 PM (CST)
 
thank ya