brodak cardinal mods

I'm finally getting ready to start a brodak cardinal..I know that a long series of articles were written up in stunt news about building this kit and unfortunately I don't have access to all issues. So could I get a quick list of what modifications are needed to make the cardinal kit into a great pattern trainer? I will be using an OS 46LA for power. I don't need alot of details just the basic mods.

thanks for any info!

Aluminum landing gear...SIG Fazer LG is perfect. Leave the rest alone. Nice flying airplane, and the .46LA is a perfect match. Steve

I believe that the key to building the kit successfully is to follow directions and, to beef the fuselage, cover with 1/2 oz. fiberglass cloth adhered with epoxy. This will stiffen the fuse considerably. I believe that the STUNT NEWS example used a Windy 4" bellcrank and Tom Morris controls. Any quality 4" bellcrank and good horns, using carbon fiber or 'glass pushrods should be good.

Have fun.

Your CiC "The world is more peaceful and more free under my leadership."
-- Dubya, President of the World, White House, Oct. 28, 2003

See Ya

I have built four. The only mod is to the landing gear like Steve says. Rich is right in some light fiberglass to the front end, but necessary. Just follow the instructions carefully. As to the engine, perfect. Enjoy.

Lynn,

The only problem I have with Aluminum or Carbon Fiber Landing gear is the necessity to mount it too far forward for paved circle landing. It would be fine if you fly over grass. The problem here is that the Aluminum or Carbon Gear has to be mounted in front of the wing since the fuselage is too narrow below the wing. Then too the wire gear shown on the plans is also set up for grass.

To solve this problem I mounted my gear under the fuselage by clamping it to 1/8 ply placed between the doublers. The end of the gear leg extends into a maple block also glued between the doublers and in front of the leading edge of the wing. See the picture below.

I also did the same with the tail wheel. This makes all the gear removable and adjustable for those perfect landings and take offs.

The Cardinal profile LA .46 was my first contest stunt plane. It flys great. Won some trophys. I still fly it some today.
I would build it stock like the kit instructions show.
You will like the way the Cardinal flys.
I use 63' lines, 11-5 or 11-6 props. Use 25% oil in your fuel. 5 oz uniflow fuel tank. I also like muffler pressure.

With my flying buddy, Bill Hummel, I wrote the "Moving Up" series for Stunt News. We chose the Brodak Cardinal because we had seen a number of them, and they all flew well. It's a good flier with no modifications. The modifications we made enhanced the plane's performance -- they didn't transform it. Most of our modifications were in the realm of personal preference.

For the record, the changes we made were:

1) For the controls we used a four-inch bellcrank with Central Hobbies carbon-fiber pushrods, Rocket City ball links, and Tom Morris control horns (all available from Tom Morris). We used Bob Hunt's tension/compression joiner system to mount the bellcrank (my personal preference).

2) We used aluminum landing gear (Bill's personal preference).

3) We replaced a few pieces of wood (mostly because we're picky).

4) We glassed the entire fuse with half-ounce fiberglass cloth (as Windy did with the prototype model). This stiffens the fuse tremendously (with minimal weight gain) and improves performance in bad air.

5) We finished the plane using clear dope dyed with Higgins Fadeproof ink. This helped keep the finished weight to 39 ounces.

My advice is to focus on building light and straight, and not on our changes. If you do this you'll have your great flying plane.

Good luck with your Brodak Cardinal,

Noel Drindak

thanks alot Steve, Peabody, Ty, Bruce, Patrick and Noel...this info is exactly what I was looking for..I will be flying primarily off of grass so maybe the gear mounted forward of the wing will be ok? I like the dyed dope idea..I bought some of that ink a couple of months ago I think I'll try it on the Cardinal! I tend to build and finish heavy..out of curiosity..approximately how much total dope did you use in the finish of the cardinal? I'm not trying for a front row finish but I seem to never know when to stop.

Thanks again ...

The aluminum gear aren't bad on pavement.....I don't bounch the thing awfully, and Bill Hummel and Windy greased several landings. The aluminum gear is great for grass....

Your CiC "See, free nations do not develop weapons of mass destruction." Washington, D.C., Oct. 8, 2003

See Ya

Twincam,
Go to post #5967 and you will se what I did with my Cardinal profile on page 15

Hi Greg
I am also starting on Profile Cardinal building
Cant find the post #5967 ?
Are your mods anything major?
Happy landings
Vincent
Vincentzo

Click here and you'll find his post.

http://www.clstunt.com/htdocs/dcforum/DCForumID1/5967.html

Nice one! thanks for the address.
Will post pix of my own
going for film covering on wings n tail
will glass the fuze and paint it
Building 2 of them
gonna try Saito 40 in one
and TT 36 from Leonard in No.2
Watch this spot! in 4 or 5 months time
Vincent
Vincentzo

My Cardinal almost ready for paint

problems...problems with the pictures:-(

Well it's finally posted after a fashion...Grins
Weighs at 41 oz. as you see it. A little on the heavy side, what do ya think??

Thanks Greg for the pictures..I can't be certain but are the landing gear mounted under the doublers? If so how did you do that? Or are they mounted with screws through the plywood doublers and then covered with the balsa triplers?

Can't put anything passed you!! Yeah, I installed a small hardwood block with blind nuts between the ply doublers. I also installed a extra blind nut and positioned them so I could move the landing gear forward if need be. I like it a lot mainly because I hate drilling thru the fuse right where it vibrates the most or where it is the weakest. The hardwood mount needs to be at least 1/2 high min. to get enough glue area to prevent it from pulling out on rough landings etc. but it has worked great for me in the passed with no problems and also it's located in a place where it lends stiffness to the front.

Another Cardinal wing in the making. The one on the previous post is a Tom Morris Millennium type wing. This a stock kit wing with the ends of the wing sheeted. Also a Tom Morris bellcrank kit etc. Tips are not done yet. GRINS

Very Nice Work. What is the yellow glue? Ambroid or wood glue (Titebond, etc).

Ty,
It's Sigs version of the yellow stuff, but, as per a Tom Morris suggestion. I don't use the glue in the thickness or viscosity it comes in I thin it slighty so it is not as heavy. I tac first with CA to hold things in place and then follow up with the yellow stuff.

Thanks, I thought it was something like that. The more I look at your photos, the more I am learning. I too put wood between the two center ribs. It should be shown on the plans. Those two are very weak until the center sheeting goes on. In fact I feel the entire area between the two center ribs should be filled in with soft, solid balsa except for the bellcrank clearance. I too have installed 45 degree bracing, but only on the back side. Yours just looks stronger with no weight gain. Is the entire fuselage covered with light fiberglass? Also your flaps look much lighter and are probably stiffer the way you "holed" them and added ribs. Lots to learn in your photos. Thank you

Hi Ya Ty,

Yea...Ya...The wood I used for the flaps I picked because it was very dense and hard so there would be no flex in the flaps. The holes I put into the flaps I have also added ribs. The ribs also help to keep the polyspan or cover from sinking in. I am not sure you can see them clearly but the first hole has a rib at 45 degrees CW and the next hole has the rib straight (forward & aft) and the next hole the rib is 45 degrees CCW. The ribs at 45 degrees help resist torsional twisting. Holes in the flaps is not a good idea if the wood is too soft.
I also added carbon fiber strips in the fuse between the wing and the stab to prevent the rear end profile flex that is so common.

Hi Ty,
Remember to keep the grain of the bracing going in the long direction of the brace, it's very inportant.

My first one came in at 40.8 oz ready to fly less fuel. It wiggled in flight, but flew nice. A dead engine inverted at 8 feet did it in, or I did by being obtinate. Ditto numbers 2, 3 & 4. #3 was scratch built and came in at 48 oz ready to fly and actually was a better flyer than the other 3. Maybe being a little heavier will help them, as they seem almost too light, if that is possible, for the wing area. They do like to float. I used ST .46 and OS .40 FP on mine. Went to the OS .40 for P40 events. The ST sure did use up the fuel and usually quit in the four leaf. Why I don't succumb to a heart attack at that moment only God knows and he's keeping that to himself. Thank you Lord. I sure do get tired of scaring myself with these toy ariplanes and building three a month is getting old too. But I love it.

I have never seen a flap horn set up like yours. This way the flap fillet remains instead of being cut out like the plans. Neat. What are you using for wing fillets?

Hi Ty,
The wing fillets are Aeropoxy light. I am not an expert builder but I can tell you that this is a great material and it is very light. It also adds strength to the joint. It also sands nice. It needs to be sanded and primered before paint. There are other methods for fillets and also strong opinions about what we should use or what is correct. Aeropoxy light is the one that works for me and once you get the hang of it you will find other applications for it's use also. I am not discounting any of the other methods such as epoxy/microballoons or balsa or whatever, they make a lot of builders happy. I purchased the tape from Windy on making fillets and it's worth watching. If anyone is interested in where to get Aeropoxy Light for a good price send me an e-mail and I will tell where I got mine. Yes, Windy sells it also.

I also like the flaphorn setup! I do have some doubts about using CA to glue a part and then filleting with another glue. The second glue doesn't have a chance to soak into the wood, due to the CA having already sealed it (IMO). So, where did you get the Aeropoxy stuff? Steve

Hi Steve...Good to hear from you. You are right about the glue thing that's why I said tack first with CA and I mean just a small tack of CA to hold things in place, as Steve says if you fully glue with CA the SIG-BOND will not soak into the wood because the CA will seal it. You will just be adding extra unneeded weight and not really gaining any strength. I got my Aeropoxy Light from:
PTM & W IND.INC.
10640 S. PAINTER AVE
SANTA FE SPRINGS, CA. 90670
1-800-421-1518
I got 5 to 6 times more in quanity from this supplier for the same price as I got from Windy and they shipped to my door. If it's more than you can use then get a fellow modeler or club member to go halves with you and it will only be $7.50 each. Aeropoxy is a 2 part system requiring PART "A" RESIN and PART "B" HARDENER. It is mixed 1 part of (B) to 2 parts (A) by weight and not by volume. PTM sent me 1 quart of the resin and 1/2 quart of the hardener for $15.00. I just called and gave them a card number and it was here in less than a week......Steve if you send me your address I will send you the fillet tape I got from Windy as I'm done with it. I already watched it 106 times. GRINS

Very nice work!

I'm curious, though, what am I looking at on the surface of the flaps?
Are these inklines, perhaps? Or some secret "turbulators"?

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"I believe in compulsory cannibalism. If people were forced to eat what they killed, there would be no more wars." -Abbie Hoffman

Hi Larry,
The flaps have been primed and sanded. What you see is the edges of the lightening holes and the ribs installed in the holes, Yeah, time to stop sanding. Oh yeah over the horn wire is thin ply for strength. Grins

P.S. did I mention about the secret turbulators

Greg,
could you take a closer photo of your flap horn set up, and more explanations on it. It looks like your horn isn't connected to the flap. I'm sure it is,but I can't see the construction well enough. Also how did you inlay the carbon fiber strips into the fuse. Do you have a photo of that, and one of any extra strips?

HI Greg,
Here are pictures you requested. Followed by the ship I'm flying now.

Fuse with 3/8 x .040 thk carbon fiber in 2 places

Greg,
That shows it better. I hope you continue to post more photos in the steps of completion of construction and your finishing details. Do you have some on your engine mounting? Did you use any mounting plates?

MORE FUN STUFF

Thanks for all the pics!
Some really nice techniques there, I especially like the inlaid CF strips! Nice looking finshed up, it is the same plane?
Keep it up!
Bill <><

Bottom view of gear

I think that the CF would be better used if it was glued flat onto the sides of the fuselage, but would be interested in the opinion of an engineer or six. Steve

I am an engineer. Carbon strips resist bending better in their present position.

(I'm an engineer too. I thought I was going to get to drive trains, but ended up designing electronic stuff.. )

I really like your use of "hard points" and agree with your placement of CF strips. The gear mounting looks particularly clever to me.

Good work. You'll like the Cardinal, it's a great flyer.

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"Happiness is nothing more than good health and a bad memory." -Albert Schweitzer

Greg,
Where did you get the CF strips?

are you saying the mounting directly on the bottome of the fuse is better then the sides? And what brand are they?

No, on the bottom they are only captured on one side. To obtain the maximum strength from the strips they need to be captured on both sides as shown in the picture.

What brand are the landing gear?

Hi Greg,
The gear is home made.

Greg are these aluminum? and can you submit a drawing with measurements with a close up side view.
Sorry if I'm picking you brain, but a good brain is worth picking.

Here are a couple of sites for Carbon fiber. Remember if you can't find the thickness you want just epoxy a couple of strips together to get the needed thickness. Just make sure you rough up the surface with sand paper before you bond. And don't breath the sanding dust, it's not good for you. Anyone else? please feel free to add to this list.

WWW.ACP-COMPOSITIES.COM
WWW.CSTSALES.COM
WWW.FIBREGLAST.COM