Hi voltage powerlines

Hello pilots.
Could someone please tell me how close you can fly on 60 foot steel cables to a 765,000 volt powerline without getting shocked or electrocuted ?

Thanks.

Jackjet

Several months ago I remember a serious discussion of safe distances to fly from the various types of power transmission lines. Some very knowledgeable EE types posted with factual data about the hazards. I ran several searches but can't come up with the thread. Can anyone locate it and post the link?

Thanks!

>Several months ago I remember a serious discussion of safe
>distances to fly from the various types of power
>transmission lines. Some very knowledgeable EE types posted
>with factual data about the hazards. I ran several searches
>but can't come up with the thread. Can anyone locate it and
>post the link?
>
>Thanks!

Thank you -and yes please can someone locate the thread he is talking about ?

Thanks.
Jackjet
Hesperia,Ca.

AMA says 50 feet. For 765KV lines, this is almost certainly OK, unless you're flying combat. If it's really windy, I'd go for a bit more margin - What if you lose line tension and have to run 20 - 30 feet to regain control?

I remember one particular Combat contest held at the Dayton Power & Light plant. There was a line cut, and the plane (a Nemesis, I believe) free-flighted for over two minutes, terminatinng (!) in a fireball when it flew into the power lines.

(Obviously, AMA means 50-foot separation from the plane at the end of the lines - NOT from the pilot!)

Jacket,
Check these SSW archive threads. If you do your own search be sure to ckeck-mark the archive box in the search function dialog box. I found these under "shock" and "voltage",..plus lots of other stuff.

http://www.clstunt.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=read_count&om=1415&forum=DCForumID1

http://www.clstunt.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=read_count&om=905&forum=DCForumID1

http://www.clstunt.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=read_count&om=3603&forum=DCForumID1

http://www.clstunt.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=read_count&om=8669&forum=DCForumID1

Tony "hair standing on end" Bagley

Tony,
thanks alot - I read all the threads. Now I know .

Jackjet

Very nice arc. Did you know you can pull an arc like that and not have any current flowing in the line when you try to open the switch (think of a long radial line with no load, but energized, and then you open the switch at the source). It is a function of line charging (Capacitance), the higher the voltage, the less line length required (capacitance is a function of the voltage squared). You can destroy a 1000hp motor by over exciting it if you have about 8 miles of 230kV radial line attached to its substation and disconnect the 230kV power line at its source and if you only have the one motor running (with 2 or more on line, the capacitance is shared).

I know I'm going to get "Lair-Lair-Pants on Fire", but here is a factual story about c/l and powerlines, which I DO NOT nor NEVER WILL fly close to!!! While in SAC,19th BW, Homestead AFB, Homestead, Fla, 1957-58, several of us enjoyed flying c/l, mostly Ringmaster type airplanes. One evening my buddy, Ronald Cupples, and I just finished up a new Fox 35 powered Ringmaster and could not wait until the next day to fly it. We went out behind the 19th BW Chow Hall about 2100 hours, (9 pm) on a dimly lighted field and fired the Fox 35 up. I took it off and in about a 1/2 to 3/4 lap it looked like the 4th of July, fire and sparks was flying and I found myself sitting on my butt wondering what happened. I had flown into power lines, I'd never seen them in the darkness. All that saved me was the GOOD LORD and the Jim Walker U-REELY I was flying with. The U-Reely was made of a plastic material and would not transmitt electrical current. The U-Reely is now long out of production, but I've flown with a U-Reely from day one and contiue to do so, not becasue of this matter, but I just like the feel of them. The Ringmaster fell into a drainage ditch, we retrived it, no damage, not even a broken 10-6 Top Flite prop and we continued to fly it on sunny Florida days. NEVER-NEVER-NEVER fly near ANY kind of power lines!!!
Ken Wilson
Evansville, IN

>I know I'm going to get "Lair-Lair-Pants on Fire", but here
>is a factual story about c/l and powerlines, which I DO NOT
>nor NEVER WILL fly close to!!! While in SAC,19th BW,
>Homestead AFB, Homestead, Fla, 1957-58, several of us
>enjoyed flying c/l, mostly Ringmaster type airplanes. One
>evening my buddy, Ronald Cupples, and I just finished up a
>new Fox 35 powered Ringmaster and could not wait until the
>next day to fly it. We went out behind the 19th BW Chow Hall
>about 2100 hours, (9 pm) on a dimly lighted field and fired
>the Fox 35 up. I took it off and in about a 1/2 to 3/4 lap
>it looked like the 4th of July, fire and sparks was flying
>and I found myself sitting on my butt wondering what
>happened. I had flown into power lines, I'd never seen them
>in the darkness. All that saved me was the GOOD LORD and the
>Jim Walker U-REELY I was flying with. The U-Reely was made
>of a plastic material and would not transmitt electrical
>current. The U-Reely is now long out of production, but I've
>flown with a U-Reely from day one and contiue to do so, not
>becasue of this matter, but I just like the feel of them.
>The Ringmaster fell into a drainage ditch, we retrived it,
>no damage, not even a broken 10-6 Top Flite prop and we
>continued to fly it on sunny Florida days. NEVER-NEVER-NEVER
>fly near ANY kind of power lines!!!
>Ken Wilson
>Evansville, IN

I can beleive it because God watches over us and I think He has saved me from instant death more than once......

Jackjet

I wouldn't be concerned about getting zapped or killed if get near enough to cause an arc it most likely burn you so badly that the pain will cause you to wish you had been killed.

> I wouldn't be concerned about getting zapped or killed if
>get near enough to cause an arc it most likely burn you so
>badly that the pain will cause you to wish you had been
>killed.

Tesla used to play around with lightning- literally. I have always been amazed at his work- he sat in a chair reading a book while an arc containing tens upon tens of thousands of volts played about him. A most interesting individual.

JAK. That famous picture of N. Tesla sitting while his electrostatic machine was running. That was a FAKE. A composite photo done before computers could superimpose pictures. Read the book "TESLA, Man Out of Time". Margaret Cheney (Cheny?) wrote that, and she was obviously a Tesla fan. But other authors have discounted much of what Tesla did in his later years. His most important contribution was the development of the ac generator (called "dynamo" in his time). Tesla went head-to-head with Edison in electric power distribution, but Tesla found a friend in George Westinghouse.

You need to be careful what you read and beleive about Tesla most of it is fake like the picture you mentioned. I have been on the Tesla Coil forum for about 4 years the guys on the forum say about 90% of what you read about Tesla is not true. I have not read much about Tesla myself I feel its a waste of time if 90% of the information is fake I would be better off doing something else. I did see a very interesting photo of a large Tesla Coil mounted on the roof of a barn when I was in high school. The artical says Tesla made 100 foot lighting bolts across the barn yard then it would thunder. For years I beleived that was true. But now I know for a fact Tesla never make a spark longer than about 20 feet.

I would add that John Leidle is an electrician, as is Chuck Matheney and Paul Dranfield. Yeah, Paul's a Britt, living in BC,...but knows AC from BC. Sorry, couldn't resist.

I sent notice of this thread to Thadd Faussett, who is a lead lineman for Bonneville Power. He had a deal cooking to get us a flying site on Bonneville property, rather close to the powerlines. They said it was safe. We elected a volunteer, a 9 time Walker Cup Winner.......he very quickly reported an uncomfortable feeling while flying, probably something akin to putting yourself in a microwave. Just stay the heck away from them. "Ty's Rule" might be safe, but better safe than crispy. Steve

I am High Voltage certified & blue collared. This means I am unfortunatly qualified to speak on this subject.

To all who responded , I thank you so much for the infomation - I am going to fly AT LEAST 1000 feet away from them. And yes they really are 765 KV - the engineer at the substation said on a hot summer day there could be as much as 5000 amperes of current - if an arc got started - it could easily go over 300 feet long ...........I do not want to die like that......man that Tesla coil is awesome !

Jackjet

Not really sure how to respond to this thread, so, I'll try to explain this situation like I would to a Land Owner who wants to build adjacent to our power lines. To give you some visual references, most power lines average about 60 ft of clearance to earth, this allows a safe buffer zone for trees, brush and animal or human activity. The width of the Right Of Way is probably around 75ft either side of center. Using this information you can plan a flying circle to the side of the lines. My suggestion would be 100ft measured perpendicular to the most out side phase. As a side note, Paul was flying in the middle of a field with 4 sets of lines all running parallel and ramped up to about 2000 amps--- lots of induced voltage.
The lines I work on are Energized to 500kv.
Hope this adds some clarity

>Not really sure how to respond to this thread, so, I'll try
>to explain this situation like I would to a Land Owner who
>wants to build adjacent to our power lines. To give you
>some visual references, most power lines average about 60 ft
>of clearance to earth, this allows a safe buffer zone for
>trees, brush and animal or human activity. The width of the
>Right Of Way is probably around 75ft either side of center.
>Using this information you can plan a flying circle to the
>side of the lines. My suggestion would be 100ft measured
>perpendicular to the most out side phase. As a side note,
>Paul was flying in the middle of a field with 4 sets of
>lines all running parallel and ramped up to about 2000
>amps--- lots of induced voltage.
>The lines I work on are Energized to 500kv.
>Hope this adds some clarity

Thadd,
do you work those 500kv lines hot ?

Jackjet

Yea, working with lines energized is part of the job-- not really my favorite way to work -- takes lots of extra time and is very uncomfortable-- 128" from energized 500kv is a little "bitey" to say the least. But they pay us to keep the power flowing, working the lines energized or de-energized depends on the situation

>Yea, working with lines energized is part of the job-- not
>really my favorite way to work -- takes lots of extra time
>and is very uncomfortable-- 128" from energized 500kv is a
>little "bitey" to say the least. But they pay us to keep the
>power flowing, working the lines energized or de-energized
>depends on the situation

Thadd, do you work them from a bucket truck or helicopter ?

Jack

We work the lines "in the steel" we climb the tower then use "hot sticks" to do maintenance, that's if we cant get the lines de-energized, because of things like loading and... profit margins.

Having been BS'd many times, I really try not to do that to others, especially where safety and life are at risk. I direct your attention to the AMA Safety regs:

http://www.modelaircraft.org/templates/ama/PDF-files/105.pdf - Scroll down to the Controlline section and peruse item #4.

Also, I am familiar with both Van de Graf Generators (having built a 750KV unit as my HS Physics project) and Tesla coils (our neighbor built Hollywood- and museum-size Tesla Coils). And, yes, I know that the Van de Graf is DC (static) and that a Tesla is AC-serial-resonance.

When you are zapped while flying controlline, it is usually because your lines are transversing a magnetic field, and you can prevent the ZAP by touching (and grounding yourself) the lines. If you see actual lightning, land the plane. Crash it if necessary; you can build another. You can't build another you!

The neighbors must love it when you fire that thing up!

My neighbor calls the police every time I fire up the Tesla Coil. The police arrive and watch. Nothing illegal about making sparks in my own yard. I am not disturbing the peace either. I never do it after 10pm or before 7am. Neighbor calls the police every time my Sons basket ball bounces into her yard. Neighbor calls the police every time my son drives his RC car across the property line. I was mowing the yard when my wife called me for dinner. I turned off the mower and left it setting in the yard so I could start where I left off when I return. It got dark so the lawn mower sat in the yard all night and all the next day. About 5 minutes after I arrived home form work the next day the police came to my door. The neighbor woman complained about my lawn mower setting in the yard she wanted it moved so she does not have to look at it. The Neighbor insists the property line is 2ft over from where it really is and refuses to mow the grass there. When the grass is 3ft tall the city sends her a notice to mow the grass. She brings the notice over to me and tells me to mow the grass. Finally proved to here where the property line really is. I build a "12 FOOT" tall fence on the property line. The neighbor woman filed complaint with the city says she can't see anything but my fence when she looks out the window. lol. Fence is still there been there 3 years its not a code voilation. Her other neighbor the ADAMS put up a fence too. The woman complained thought the fence was on her property. The ADAMs paid for a servey then had the fence moved over 3ft closer to the woman that compained. The Neighbor woman knocked on my door in the fall and ask me to rake the leaves in her yard. I told her that I don't do things like that she should call a lawn service. She got mad and told me the wind blew my leaves in her yard and she wants me to remove my leaves from her yard. So my reply was, "If my leave are in your yard then your leaves must me in the ADAMS yard, are you going to rake your neighbors yard?" She went off on me, got up in my face and yelled. I told her, mother nature make those leaves and mother nature blew them in her yard so tell mother nature to rake them and I slammed the door in her face. The city has pick up service for grass clippings, tree limbs, bushes, etc. pile it next to the street and the city will pick it up for free. The neighbor woman piles her trash in front of my house she does not want it in front of her own house. I push it over in front of her house and she calls the police on me. Tug of was all last summer. One day trash was piled so high in front of my drive way I had to drive across my yard to get in. This time I called the police. The Police noticed tree limbs came from trees that were growing in her yard not my yard so she had to move it. I bought 3 push mowers and a garden tiller cheap at a yard sale. I already have a push mower and riding mower. I leave them all in the front yard every day. I start them almost ever day and mow a few feet then turn them off and let the sit. It drives the neighbor woman nuts. I am having fun giving this woman a hard time.

Egads - what a neighbor (her, not you).

What a hideous tale. Maybe you could explain to her that life is short, and that maybe she'd enjoy it a bit more if she'd lighten up?

I have a neighbor that built a house on the three acre field adjacent to mine. Reason enough to dislike him. I liked the hay field, and didn't want my view of the mountain obstructed by the vinyl sided house with the nice big deck with the two SUVs and the 2.3 kids and a wife that just doesn't seem to want to bounce around naked in the afternoon on the trampoline.

He built a fence (split rail) which is typical of the area, but he put this chicken wire stuff behind it that extends to the ground (has a dog). And one doesn't approach that stuff lightly with the ol' Homelite weed munching device.

So, now I gots a 150 foot row of weeds and grass and the like running down the side of my yard with a fence sprouting out of it. It could be worse - he could show up at my next little boy's baby shower even more intoxicated than he did last time.

Seriously - life is pretty short to be having it out with your neighbors on a regular basis. But, I've got an idea. Pink flamingoes. My brother (who has a fetish for these things) says that a single pink flamingo is just tacky. But 300 of them is a statement!

Just a thought.

LAST EDITED ON May-13-04 AT 02:00 PM (CDT)
 
>Egads - what a neighbor (her, not you).
>
>What a hideous tale. Maybe you could explain to her that
>life is short, and that maybe she'd enjoy it a bit more if
>she'd lighten up?
>
>Seriously - life is pretty short to be having it out with
>your neighbors on a regular basis. But, I've got an idea.
>Pink flamingoes. My brother (who has a fetish for these
>things) says that a single pink flamingo is just tacky. But
>300 of them is a statement!

When the woman first started giving me a hard time about the things in my yard the first thing that came to mind was Pink Flamingos. I checked Home Depot, Lowe's other places no one sells them. Thought about building some with plywood. I decided it was more fun building model airplanes than plywood Flamingos so I dropped the idea. The woman has her yard covered with what I call Lawn Junk, about 12 wind chimes in her front yard, several cement animals, several cement people, 3 round colored glass balls about the size of a bowling ball on a cement stand, handing things that blow in the wind, spinner things, cement table and chair, cement decorations, all in the front yard. Every time the wind blows all I can hear is about 200 metal pipes banging together from her wind chimes. I have 25 bird houses and 6 bird feeders in my back yard trees the wind chimes make so much noise I can't hear the birds. I made some wind chimes of my own with about 50 soft drink cans attached to kite string, about 20 tin cans attached to kit string. The woman called the city and complained about my wind chimes and the city make me take them down. Code says trash can not be displayed in the yard, Cans are classified as trash. The woman moved all of her wind chimes next to my property line all lined up in a row a few inches from the property line. It worked out good for me I walked right down the property line carrying my propane torch and burned all the strings off of the wind chimes. The woman put up several NO TRESPASSING signs along the property line facing my house. She pulled a string along the property line and tied it to a wooden stake at each end of the yard. Every night I cut the string and every morning she was out there tieing the string back together. The string would stretch enough she could always tie it back together so one night I cut a 10 ft section out of the string. I wish I had this on video because the next morning you should have seen her trying to tie the string back together. The woman mowers her grass with a riding mower and drives across the property line into my yard to turn around. One day she turn the lawn mower in my yard, dropped the mower deck all the way to the ground cutting my grass right down to the dirt. With no grass the dirt got a nice powdered layer of dust on top. A week later when she when she drove across the property line it stired up so much dust I can not see her or the lawn mower. She drives out of the dust cloud choking trying to catch her breath. lol. Most of the things the woman does just causes trouble for herself. She is a little bit stupid. The woman collects all the dead tree branches that fall from the trees into her yard and throws them into my yard. I collect the sticks and use them to start the charcoal in the BBQ grill. I don't have to buy charcoal light fluid. The woman has no idea that she is doing me a favor giving me all those sticks.

Gary Weaver [email protected]

Nothing illegal about
>making sparks in my own yard.

Generating Broadband RF interference is definitely NOT legal in the US!

THe spark gap that generates the RF that powers the primary side of the Tesla transformer is a transmitter.

FYI

>
>Generating Broadband RF interference is definitely NOT legal
>in the US!

It seems there are a lot of things that are illegal that shouldn't be and there are a lot of things that are legal that shouldn't be. Date Line TV show reported traffic accidents caused my cell phone drives are double the number of accidents caused by drunk drivers. Why is drunk driving illegal and cell phone driving legal??? Drink drivers kill more people each year than accidents caused my weed or other illegal drugs why is alcohol legal??? Why is it legal for some loud mouth to talk on his cell phone at the table next to you in a restaurant or a few seats over in the movie theater but a 100 mw cell phone jammers are illegal??? Why is it legal for people to buy radar detectors so they can speed and drive 90 mph and not get caught??? An amature radio operator can legally operate a transmitter that will screws up every TV in a 1/2 mile radius but its illegal to tie a log chain on his antenna at 3am in the morning and drag the antenna into the next county. The list goes on and on. If people were born naturally STONED all the time and had to smoke something to get NORMAL the government would make it illegal.

Fire off an Estes model rocket into the
>storm clouds about 3 seconds before the next predicted
>lighting strike and you can attract a REAL lighting strike
>to your launch pad in your back yard. Sounds like someone
>shot off a stick of dynamite in the yard. Be sure to fire
>the rocket by remote control is you want to live.
>
>Gary Weaver [email protected]

I saw that happen by accident at a high power launch in Virginia in 1993 or so. Fortunately for those working the launch equipment the bolt dropped off the exhaust plume about 200 yards from the launcher and went to the ground. It really got everybody's attention. The storm had been getting closer, but did not look very violent and was hard to tell just how near it really was. Somebody shot off an EZI-65 on a long burn J-125 which tipped a bit off the launcher and gradually turned into a ballistic arc, causing the model to run almost a mile downrange when it dissapeared into the dark cloud. About two seconds later came the lightning bolt. I'm not sure if the model was ever found, but I doubt it survived deploying its parachute in a thunderstorm. Nobody was hurt, and no equipment lost other than the errant rocket, but it was quite an event.