Nobler ARF Mods

There are a number of threads discussing the Nobler ARF, and different mods have popped up, but are scattered every which way. Most have suggested (probably mandatory) replacing the leadouts and some have illustrated easy ways of doing this. Some have suggested ways of replacing the tank for engines needing more capacity (like using the narrow Brodak tank and cutting a hole in the back former to allow it to easily slide through. I haven't heard anybody mention yet an adjustable leadout guide (should be easy while replacing the leadouts) or tip weight box, although people have suggested the need for both. There have also been mods on making the tank height adjustable, beefing up the motor mounts, hardware, pushrods, belcrank, wheels, and the list goes on.

How about posting your suggested (or what you feel might be mandated) modifications here, all under one heading? It could be an interesting resource. Just keep it to the topic.

OK, guys (or gals) the floor is yours.

LAST EDITED ON Aug-18-03 AT 12:08 PM (CDT)
 
I am in the process of buliding an ARF Nobler, and have considered all of the mods. discussed on this forum. While I did replace the leadouts and bellcrank, I did not elect to install an adjustable leadout guide. I did however install a Brodak weight box. I put it in the same location as the Brodak Nobler kit recomends, and was no real problem. I have decided to use a Stunt .35, and have been wondering what to do with the engine mount rails. I think all I am going to do is bush the bolt holes with brass tubing to prevent crushing, and leave every thing else alone. It appears to me that they used some type of hot glue to assemble these things, and that this glue is very vibration proof, so I believe that they will be ok as long as the plane is not crashed. If and when a crash happens, I will beef up the nose during repair. As for the control rods and ends , I am thinking of several options, all of which involve using some type of "R/C" clevis. I have forgotten the brand name, but one clevis is gold colored, and has a spring retainer clip on the end of the pivot pin, while the other (Du-Bro 4-40 Safety Lock Kwik-Link) is heavy black nylon with a removable steel pin and a sliding retainer which clips to the end of the pin. I have use both in the past, but am leaning toward the nylon one. I have some graphite arrows, and will use one of them for the elevator pushrod. Back to the leadout slider, one could open up the bottom of the wing to install this, and since Monocoat is fairly easy to patch, this would look ok. I'll wait for crash repair to make this mod. That is what i am gonna do, how about everyone else?

The box says 4 to 6 hours to assemble. Heck, I've spent more time than that just thinking about how I was going to do it!

You sound like me

The only mods I made were dying the hinges black and replacing the leadouts. I did use a 1/2" prop extension on the Brodak-40 to get the engine as far back on the mounts as possible and still get the spinner/cowl alignment right. I am going to cut new graphics and call it Noblearf.

LAST EDITED ON Aug-18-03 AT 11:22 AM (CDT)
 
I have test flown mine and made comments in the products review section. As to the tank, I use a Brodak BH-489, 4 0z. I slide it in through the firewall former. I used my dremel to cut out enough material to allow this.
The wing tips are ply and balsa. I don't know what the plywood is made of, but it is very light and soft. (Spruce or balsa??). One look and I realized installing a slider guide would be a large job, nothing quick and easy. I'll do that later. A wing tip weight box will be easy and is scheduled for tonight.

>
>How about posting your suggested
>modifications here, all under one heading?
>It could be an interesting resource.

By way of consolidating information to date:

First Impressions

Ty started a thread on getting the box and looking inside which developed into a first take on everyone's part about the kinds of mods probably needed, lines, bellcrank and the like.

Control Clevises

Don started a thread on the R/C style control clevises supplied with the kit that petered out with not a lot of discussion.

Replacing the Leadouts

Rick started a thread with a question about changing leadouts which gathered several techniques about replacing the leadouts and what to use in place of the stock hardware. The thread then veered over into gas tank installation.

Controls Acid Tested

Alan started a thread with a tale of a lose Nobler that flew across the circle and then jolted the control lines. Some folks comiserated but the geist of it was that the controls can take a good shock.

Powerplants Considered

Mike C started a thread on OS 40LA powerplants in the ARF Nobler, which led to a few comments about weight and balance and the sensibility of using the Brodak .40.

Powerplants Revisited

Rick started a thread on OS LA 25 powerplants in the ARF Nobler, which devolved into a discussion of modern .25s in general

The Instruction Manual

Ty started a thread with a positive comment on the instruction manual which went nowhere after that.

Recovering the Airframe

Airacobra started a thread wondering about the ethics of stripping the monokote off of an ARF airframe and replacing it with new cover. Which set off the usual fireworks over the BOM rule

Just a sampling for the moment. I will continue to edit links in later.

Cy

>>
>>How about posting your suggested
>>modifications here, all under one heading?
>>It could be an interesting resource.
>
>
>By way of consolidating information to date: (snip)
>

Perhaps you missed my next sentence after the above quote:

>How about posting your suggested (or what you feel might be
>mandated) modifications here, all under one heading? It
>could be an interesting resource. Just keep it to the
>topic.

I wasn't trying to consolidate everybody's impressions, or engines or how it flew or what you thought of the instruction book. I was looking for people to post the modifications they made along with how they did it. One plane was lost on its first flight when the leadouts broke. One plane had the engine come loose. Some are finding the tank to be too small for their engine of choice. There are no adjustables for leadouts or tip weight.

So, what have you peole done to modify the plane to make it better or longer lasting (or even safer?) Some of these mods do not take long, but can greatly improve what appears to be an already good plane. What mods have already been accomplished? What mods would you like for someone to help you with?

MINE FLIES GREAT, THE ENGINE RUNS VERY GOOD, ALL THE EXPERTS ARE SURPRISED, MINE DOES NOT NEED ADJUSTABLE WEIGHT BOX AND SLIDER LEADOUTS NOR DOES THE ENGINE MOUNTS NEED ANY MODIFICATIONS .WITH A FOX 35 AND BIG ART MUFFLER THE ONLY ITEMS I CHANGED #1 TANK 4 1/2 OZ REMOVABLE FROM FRONT WITH FLOOR AND CROSSGRAIN BETWEEN MOUNTS. #2 LEADOUTS TO 032 SOLID VERY EASY,WITH NYLON BELLCRANK ALSO VERY EASY. #3 CHANGED WHEELS TO CHANGE VERTICAL CENTER OF GRAVITY AND TO ADD NOSE WEIGHT. #4 PUT CARBON FIBER ROD OVER STOCK FLAP TO ELEVATOR PUSH ROD.#5 ADDED THE HEAVIEST 1 3/4 SPINNER I COULD FIND, STILL NEEDS ABOUT 1 OZ MORE. THE PLANE FLIES GREAT AND I AM HAVING FUN FLYING IT, AND I WILL LET OTHER FLYERS TRY MY NOBLER SOMETHING I NEVER DID BEFORE. NOBLERS FOREVER ,REGARDS TO ALL NEAL BEEKMAN

My only mod was to use a Sullivain RST 4oz tank plumbed for uniflow. RST tanks are seamless, semi-transparent, soft tanks. They can be molded easily by just heating them up with a heat gun. With this tank, Brodak 40, drilled muffler and 7.5% nitro/20% 50/50 oil I have enough time for a full pattern plus 6 more laps. It is very important to set the needle right at the 4-2 break point. If the motor 4 cycles most of the time, it will run out of fuel in the middle of a cloverleaf.

My Mods:

Replaced control system with modern stuff, except for horns. I'd replace or modify them, too, were I to do it again. Use a Brodak/TF nylon crank and attach flap rod at innermost hole on 'crank to SLOW DOWN the controls.

Sealed up holes in tank compartment with 1/64" ply scraps to keep fuel goo from entering wing/fuse area. Gave fuel compartment an extra coat of epoxy.

Cut out almost all of the rudder offset.

Heavier "Vinatge" style wheels to correct vertical CG issue. Got this tip from Windy's 1987 video Nobler. It really made a difference. Model sat square on lines. Better tension all around.

Used a narrow 4oz metal tank, cut hole in F1 to slide it in from front.

Use a LIGHT motor to keep from adding tail weight: Max-S, Fox 35, Brodak 40, etc.

Add wood spats to LG wires - 'cuz it looks cool.

Recover rudder in contrasting color so you can tell your ship from all the others!

Fly the wings off it & have fun!

The spats help the looks, and the original had them. Currell

Excellent idea Leonard,
I'll join the many others who are thanking you (once again - hope you're not getting too bored!) for the EXCELLENT value this Forum so often provides (if it hadn't have been for SSW, I probably would still not have heard of these kits even - not ONE mention in any of the European mags I see).

FWIW, my Nobler arrived a few weeks ago, but I haven't even started it yet. The reason is that we, the Swiss C/L Tech Committee, are going all out to present C/L to a wider public, and will be doing a major Trade Show in September where we'll demonstrate C/L plus give anyone who wants to a hands on flight (using suitable trainers). To back that up we're trying to get the LHS' here, and the local Top Flite distributor, to bring both the Flitestreak and the Nobler into SUI in quantity - as I have already posted here in the past, I for one believe that this new Top Flite venture into C/L ARTF could well be at least part of the virgin's prayer (how to get more interest back into C/L).

Anyway, what that means is that my own personal Nobler and Flite Streak kits will remain unbuilt until after late september, and in the meantime I've been hawking the kits around showing them to various modelling buddies, LHS', etc (and there's been quite a bit of positive interest shown too - I could have sold about 10 Nobler kits if I'd had 'em).

But when I do come to build my own (or help others if we do get these things off the ground commercially here) this thread will be more than useful, so thanks to everyone posting here.

In the meantime the only useful thing I have done with the Nobler is to carefully unpack and weigh it in the condition as I received it. If that helps anyone then I'm pleased to post this small bit of info (P.S. I can also weigh the Flitestreaks too if anyone wants - I bought 2 of those too).

Unless otherwise stated, all items were weighed as delivered – i.e. covered with Monokote, ready to assemble, but with plastic packing bags etc removed. Weights (grammes):
1. Fuselage (complete with underwing fairing) = 180
2. Wings (complete with 2 flaps but no hinges)= 384
3. Cowling = 35
4. Wheels = 19
5. Canopy (bagged) = 6
6. Tank = 51
7. Misc. Hardware (bagged – including horns;
tailwheel & leg; balsa/ply/dowel; hinges;
nuts/bolts/screws/washers; clevises) = 65
8. MLG (bagged - legs only) = 22
9. Fin & Rudder (combined) = 17
10. Tailplane (complete with 2 elevators, no hinges) = 55
11. Push-Pull Rods (bagged – not cut to length) = 37

Airframe only Sub Total = 871

12. Glues, etc (estimated) = 200 ?
13. Motor (Fox 0.35, 40th Anniversary Edition,
inc silencer, NV & spraybar assy; excl prop
& spinner) = 238

ESTIMATED WORKING TOTAL, DRY (inc. 200 gr allowance for prop & spinner) = 1,509

BTW, 1 gramme = 28.35 ozs, so the above is approx. 53.23 ozs

As you can see, having a new, un-run Fox .35, and being a "conservative Englander" to boot, this model will have a Fox 35 in the nose!

>>BTW, 1 gramme = 28.35 ozs, so the above is approx. 53.23 ozs

Hum, my arf Nobler will finish at 37.5 ounces. Brodak 40 with 1/2" shaft extension, Sullivan round 4 ounce clunk tank, plastic spinner and APC 10.5 x 4.5.

You sure you didn't include the box and packing material

>
>BTW, 1 gramme = 28.35 ozs,

>Andy Sweetland

I think this is suppose to be the other way around isn't it?
1 oz = 28 grams

Gents,

Yeah, sorry. That's what comes of "quick typing" - 1 oz = 28.35 grammes it is.

And no, I didn't weigh the box too - those are the weights I got from my kit, using reasonably accurate scales (plus/minus 1 gr claimed - kitchen/cooking, simple battery/digital readout, type of scales). But the 200 gr allowance for epoxy etc, plus the 200 gr I allowed for prop n spinner are no doubt "a bit" on the high side?

My take on this Nobler is that is a dog. ARF!ARF!ARF!ARF. I thought this thing is already to go. Why are we doing Great Planes work for them. Do the R/C guys put up with this! I dont think so, ARF!ARF!ARF!ARF!
Wayne

>My take on this Nobler is that is a dog. ARF!ARF!ARF!ARF. I
>thought this thing is already to go. Why are we doing Great
>Planes work for them. Do the R/C guys put up with this! I
>dont think so, ARF!ARF!ARF!ARF!
>Wayne

You know, 5% of the people out there are never happy.........

LAST EDITED ON Aug-20-03 AT 08:08 AM (CDT)
 
True. Their "valuable" contribution to this thread is essential. How does this saying go? If you can't say anything constructive don't say anything at all.

I like the barking part though. Funny.

In my post 11 on this thread, I wrote:

"But when I do come to build my own (or help others if we do get these things off the ground commercially here) this thread will be more than useful, so thanks to everyone posting here".

In the light of Post 15 I think I should change that comment to read "thanks to ALMOST everyone posting here".

I suggest you read the inputs more carefully:-). It is Almost Ready To Fly, not RTF. I belive this type is fairly new to most of us and we have taken more time than usual in making sure we get it right the first time and making some changes most of feel were necessary. I think you should actually see one before you go barking up trees.

CL folk will remain perennial tenkerers! We get and ARF and what do we do, we tinker with it! I've heard of people stripping covering off and rebuilding half of the plane. Am I the only one who finds this situation amusing?

P.S. I'm going to add a weight box as soon as matching color Monocote arrives to patch up the wing.

Leonard,

Why don't you delete everything in this thread from 15 down. These posts are adding nothing to the thread and I sure won't miss them.