I surrender

Seems as if I kicked over a big can of worms on Ion's post "NEW" when I suggested a seperation of U/C and religion. To anyone that I may have offended I apologize. I would hope that it was recognized by some that I never did imply that I was anti religion or anything like that. No, I don't like "Born Again's" hammering on my door trying to "save me" anymore then I like Jehovah Witnesses beating on it either. I have no respect for anyone who refuses to salute our flag. I am also not the most devote man either. I don't relate to stained glass, man made buildings claiming to be a "House of God". I don't subscribe to the theory that man and the dinosaurs co existed either. I believe in the theory of evolution. I believe there is a higher being, I am just not sure his name is God. The only time I really feel the power of a higher being is when I go up into the mountains or deserts into the world that he really did create. When the beauty of nature is unspoiled without all the housing developments and free of pollution I feel one on one with our creator.I also did not resort to name calling and being inmature about it. A reference to "bagger squealing little girls" doesn't accomplish a thing. To all of you in stunt land I wish many happy flights and always a good landing. Goodbye.

First, correct either your spelling or your punctuation!

* "No claim to fame, I build more then I fly, collect ,more then I build." *

It should be "No claim to fame. I build more THAN I fly; collect more, then I build."

Or - "No claim to fame. I build more. Then I fly. Collect more; then I build."

Most of this is with tongue firmy inserted in cheek. And quit apologizing to people who have nothing else better to do than to be offended! This is even more important . . .

Gee, Ralph,

I'm usually fairly picky about things like this, and I had not even noticed the readily apparent errors.

"No claim to fame, I build more then I fly, collect ,more then I build."

I had always read it as: "(I have)No claim to fame. I build more than I fly, collect more than I build."

Bill,

Just what the heck do you mean, anyhow?

(My apologies to Mr. Dirt.)

(Edit: Please note that I did not ask Bill to change the second line of his signature. I had already ascertained what he meant, without even thinking about it, as can be seen above. Only after LC Ralph brought the matter to our attention, did I jokingly ask what Bill actually did mean......--OS--)

Just so everyone will know what I meant I have made the neccessary corrections.
However, I feel that this statement is fairly self explanatory. I build alot more planes than I fly and I collect alot more kits than I build. It really intrigues me with the horrendous spelling that I have seen on alot of other posts that someone would take the time to be picky about this one. I stand corrected and hope that this is sufficient. Previous statement was: No claim to fame, I build more then I fly, collect, more then I build
HOW HARD CAN IT BE?

Bill,

I was not the one who broached the subject of your signature's second line. I merely stated that I had previously read it exactly as you clarified it above. After the question, though, I started to doubt my own interpretation. That's when I jokingly asked what the heck you meant. You needn't have changed it on my account, but it now is easier to ascertain your intent.

I have no idea what you are referring to (It's a simple matter when referencing another thread to go find it and paste a link in place, but many forum visitors never seem to bother. We are, after all, authoring hypermedia here--but that's tangential to this post) in regard to some reaction to some post you made.

But it never ceases to amaze me:

How much stuff gets posted on the Stunt Control Line Forum that is not about stunt.

The kinds of reactions readers will offer to a post that offends their sensibilities.

How quickly folks are to 'pick up their marbles and go home' when such reactions are forthcoming.

Basically we're all feeling our way in a new medium.

The successful conduct of a web forum relies on one of two things:

A Moderater, which can keep things on track, or

Good Cyber Citizenship, which is an acquired sensibility.

Since Len does not have the time or inclination to moderate these discussions, it falls on all of us to stick more or less to the subject and think before we post.

As for religion, politics and operating systems--there's no way to start up on any of those topics without triggering a completely useless (in the context of the stated mission of this forum) exchange.

I guess we can all be thankful that we no longer have to hear the latest on the 88 Chevy Vega.

By the way, did I tell you I ran my first Half Marathon today?

Cy, that I can really admire! I try to walk at a fast pace 2 to 3 miles every night when possible. Good for the cardio you know! Your evaluation of this forum and everything that relates to it is refreshing to say the very least. Very eloquently stated and very appreciated. As to cut and paste, I just don't know how to do it, yet.

>As to cut and paste,
>I just don't know how to do it, yet.

At the risk of being a victim of a leg-pull. you simply:

A: Navigate to the post in thread you want to leave a pointer.

B: Use the cursor to select the URL in the location box of the page you are on.

C: Go to the Edit menu and select "Copy"

D: Go to the post you are making.

E: Put the cursor in the text entry field.

F: Go to the Edit menu and select "Paste"

The link to the point in the SSWF information base you are trying to leave for your fellow travelers will appear like magic, and look something like this:

http://www.clstunt.com/htdocs/dcforum/DCForumID1/7542.html#2

Only the number after the last slash and before the .html will be different.

The number after the # is the number of the post in the thread.

Nuance details will vary from browser to browser and Operating Systems other than the Mac, but if you can build an airplane that can fly, you can figure those differences out.

>>As for religion, politics and operating systems--there's no way to start up on any of those topics without triggering a completely useless (in the context of the stated mission of this forum) exchange.<<

Or in most forums. 99% of such discussion are pretty much completely useless as they can never be resolved. People think what they think.

Stay around Bill. Most of the stuff here is on topic.

More or less.

I tried to put one of those links Cy does, but his time i failed!

Now it partialli workes..

I copied your stuff...

thread
discussing the Fool>

Not so good. hbut considering i am an ignoramus in html...

Ion

>I tried to put one of those links Cy does,
>but this time I failed!
>
>Ion

That does not give me enough information to help you, Ion.

What OS are you using?

(For example, Red Hat Linux has a nasty 'feature'. You will lose whatever text you cut/copied IF you try to do more than just paste it somewhere else. That is, if you highlight some text to try to REPLACE that highlighted text with the text you just cut, you will find that the text on the clipboard disappeared.)

What browser are you using?

Can you cut/paste in other applications?

Do you have a "show clipboard" menu selection in your Finder or Desktop so you can monitor the contents of the clipboard?

Do you have a 'Help' menu on your system menu bar?

Here you are, Cy,

Dan's Soup!

Dirty Dan's Cabbage Soup

Not really, Ion.

You have to put the full url location in the link and (dare I suggest) test it in preview before you publish.

Your link is incomplete (does not have a page, just a path) and takes me to an error page:

---
Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /htdocs/dcforum/DCForumID1/ on this server.

Apache/1.3.27 Server at www.clstunt.com Port 80
----

Here is a well formed link:

http://www.clstunt.com/htdocs/dcforum/DCForumID1/7193.html#1

Here is a broken one:

http://www.clstunt.com/htdocs/dcforum/DCForumID1/

But I suspect you knew that and are just making your point by poliferating broken links to off topic material.

What's the point?

>But it never ceases to amaze me:
>
>How much stuff gets posted on the Stunt Control Line
>Forum that is not about stunt.

There is some, but not a lot. I try to give people some leeway ("Hi, John, see you at the next contest?" This could have been done with e-mail, but I let it go.) And then we get into these other discussions. Here, see my comment down below.

>The kinds of reactions readers will offer to a post that
>offends their sensibilities.
>
>How quickly folks are to 'pick up their marbles and go home'
>when such reactions are forthcoming.

That has sadly happened several times. We get our feelings hurt and leave. I have given up on several discussions, but never on the forum.

>Basically we're all feeling our way in a new medium.
>
>The successful conduct of a web forum relies on one of two
>things:
>
>A Moderater, which can keep things on track, or
>
>Good Cyber Citizenship, which is an acquired sensibility.
>
>Since Len does not have the time or inclination to moderate
>these discussions, it falls on all of us to stick more or
>less to the subject and think before we post.

OK, now we get to the crux of the problem. Yes, time is one factor. I still try to read everything, but do not have time to "Moderate". But how far do I go is the next question. I get people telling me that I should stop a certain discussion or individual from posting or saying what he did say. And yet if I cut it off I get accused of censorship. I have tried with several individuals to e-mail (and even talk on the phone) directly, rather than through this forum, so there is more "moderating" going on than anyone is aware of. I just don't step in every tenth post and say "You guys can't talk about this any more" or make a public display when I feel someone has stepped over the line.

And, yes, I do rely on you people being responsible in how you react and what you post.

If we just stuck with airplanes only, we would have far fewer arguments (except for things like BOM, ARF, cut off dates for classic, where the bottoms of the pattern should be, or intersections of the clover, or maximum engines sizes, or line sizes, or lap speeds, or whether or not gravity exists, or where or when or if our fuel vaporizes, or "Do I really have to change the leadouts in my Nobler?", or...)

Come to think of it, maybe we ought to just stick to some of these simpler subjects.

>OK, now we get to the crux of the problem. Yes, time is one
>factor. I still try to read everything, but do not have
>time to "Moderate".

Len, I would imagine that reading every post is almost a full time job in itself, especially if it is done on a timely manner. Moderating the "situations" that arise would likely fall in into the overtime category because of the popularity of this site plus the volume of postings.

I often wonder how you have time to build when you consider the additional responsibility of SSW biz.

Ron
I'm new to this forum so maybe I shouldn't comment. First I would like to thank you (Lenord) for this forum. It has taught me more about control line flying in a few months than I have been able to learn in a lot of years trying to figure it out on my own. Since I have been viewing this forum I have seen two appologies from members that apparently offended some one. Why should anyone have to appologize for saying what they think (that is liberal for me). I am a strong beliver in the constiution of the United States and it guarantes me the right to free speach, this allows me to think and say what I want. With the possible exception that I may not offend THE MAJORITY of those listening ie: name calling profanity etc. Every conversation gets off track but this forum is set up in a way that it can get back on track with a few clicks of the mouse. In other words if you don't like what you are reading move on.

well said

>...If we just stuck with airplanes only, we would have far fewer arguments (except for things like BOM, ARF, cut off dates for classic, where the bottoms of the pattern should be, or intersections of the clover, or maximum engines sizes, or line sizes, or lap speeds, or whether or not gravity exists, or where or when or if our fuel vaporizes, or "Do I really have to change the leadouts in my Nobler?", or...)

Gee Leonard, you left out corner radius.

> I guess we can all be thankful that we no longer have to hear the latest on the 88 Chevy Vega.

I for one am offended by that statement, it does not belong in this forum. I've owned three Vegas and I am quite sure there was no '88 model. And thank God for that.

Ralph, you must be careful when correcting ones spelling or punctuation on this forum. I did it once and got blasted. Was even accused of being a English professor. I am not one. Just a Dad who knew how to spell and corrected one hell of alot of papers in my 3 boys school years. I wouldn't let them use the computer until they had it right. You don't need a spell checker then!

Actually, there are several other ways to phrase/puncuate this; but I cannot understand the way it is spelled and punctuated.

*"No claim to fame, I build more then I fly, collect ,more then I build."*

Momma was an English teacher, but said I had the soul of a proofreader. I think that was a negative . . .

Bill, I hope you are not leaving for good. This forum is made of opinions and ideas. Your "can of worm" is very beneficial to this forum. It brought out another dimension from all of us. We now know a little more of each other. Thank you.

Don't go. I bet you have a lot to share and a lot to learn in this forum.

lol hey i hope dont read what i post much because i cat spell puncate or what ever and type very good eihter but i can a fly combat plane and working on stunt lol im also working on spelling too
oh yea bob reeves said i always built the uglyest planes too

That was a really eloquent and helpful addition to our collective knowledge.

Sigh....

HI Bill. The only problem with believing in "evolution" is that if we did evolve from the apes, then why are they still here? I think they were just a prototype that lasted and we are a later modification. Not better, just a modification. Like the Nobler and the later RC Nobler. Keep your lines tight.

>HI Bill. The only problem with believing in "evolution" is that if we did evolve from the apes, then why are they still here? I think they were just a prototype that lasted and we are a later modification. Not better, just a modification. Like the Nobler and the later RC Nobler. Keep your lines tight.

Perhaps they evolved from us. We could be going in the other direction, you know.

George

PS. I've seen a lot of folks use then where they should have used than. But THEN, I would rather read them as written THAN worry about corrections. How do ya like them apples?

Hmmm. Never thought of it that way. HE does move in mysterious ways and HE does have a sense of humor. After all, we're all here.

Bill.

You're taking this too seriously!

All of us, (no exception) had the ill luck of posting the wrong thimg at the wrong time. Ya know the saying, "##### happens"...

I wish I hadn't posted a lot of stuff I did, and many of themwere really obnoxious.

But, I'm still around.

I like the stuff you post.

I was the one that started the thread, and you can rest assured that my respect and consideration for you remains unchanged.

If you go, we all loose.

Stick around and lets get the Stunt stuff rolling!

God bless you!

And keep this in mind,

you're the second guy that said he was leaving and that we all kissed his "derriére" asking him to not go.

To the other ones we said "Go, yeah, do it, bye, arivedercci, adios,you said you're neer returning" Never is too soon..."

Are you trying to beat Bill Little's record??

You are (as far as I'm concerned) a personna grata aaround here, we all like you!

Don't go!

Ion, I don't want nor would I ask anyone to kiss my hiney. As far as a record goes I know nothing of Bill Littles score. I didn't mean to be the cause of your post getting out of hand. Never thought that it would go to where it is now. When I think back on it I should have said nothing or at least congradulated you on your new job. Sometimes the keyboard is faster than the brain. Congradulations on your new job!

Hey Bill,
Ain't nobody keepin' score.
Don't know what happened, but just blow it off. I was really p!$$*@ when I said good bye to the forum, but I came to the realization that I still had a lot of time left to pull a few chains of those guys who occasionally want to be jerks. It's kinda like a family..... there are arguments but there is a common bond that (stunt) keeps us together.
Stick around, there's much more fun to be had here!
From the old Redneck,
Bill <><

P.S. Ion was one of the fellows that encouraged me to rethink my decision, and after hearing from several others, and cooling off, I am still here. And I am glad I stayed.

Bill,
Glad you are sticking around.

On your comment "I don't subscribe to the theory that man and the dinosaurs co existed either." I thought we were all dinosaurs with a CL hump.

>Seems as if I kicked over a big can of worms on Ion's post
>"NEW" when I suggested a seperation of U/C and religion. To
>anyone that I may have offended I apologize. I would hope
>that it was recognized by some that I never did imply that I
>was anti religion or anything like that. No, I don't like
>"Born Again's" hammering on my door trying to "save me"
>anymore then I like Jehovah Witnesses beating on it either.
>I have no respect for anyone who refuses to salute our flag.
>I am also not the most devote man either. I don't relate to
>stained glass, man made buildings claiming to be a "House of
>God". I don't subscribe to the theory that man and the
>dinosaurs co existed either. I believe in the theory of
>evolution. I believe there is a higher being, I am just not
>sure his name is God. The only time I really feel the power
>of a higher being is when I go up into the mountains or
>deserts into the world that he really did create. When the
>beauty of nature is unspoiled without all the housing
>developments and free of pollution I feel one on one with
>our creator.I also did not resort to name calling and being
>inmature about it. A reference to "bagger squealing little
>girls" doesn't accomplish a thing. To all of you in stunt
>land I wish many happy flights and always a good landing.
>Goodbye.

Darn you, I'm a sucker for happy ends!

I was making the inventory of this thread and I think we netted the following profits:

1. I learned a new word "hiney". (Does it come from "hind"?")

2. I learned about a remarkable man. I admire (even if you crash too much ) your character, honesty and the guts to - like they say - "eat crow".

I know by experience that crow doesnt taste good, but it's easly digestable and good for the body, mind and soul.
And you sleep better too.

I'd like to add that we have a lot more in common, as far as "religion" is concerned, than you suspect.

I'm a Christian, not a "churchian". And I don't blame you for not liking a lot of things that are wrongly labeled as Christian,

Don't you know that story in the Bible about Jesus kickin' them guys... hiney's? - s because they were sellin' all kinds of stuff at the temple?

If he decided to repeat his act on a lot of churches today (not all of them, well understood) he might have to spend another 2.000 years kickin' butts!

Too many "born agains" grinnin' like racoons, "I'm, saved, yupee!", but let a guy in real need ask 'em for a sandwich...

I HATE this "evangelical" stereotype". I refuse to wear what I call "the Christian outfit".

I don't speak "Evangeliquese",ya know, that language, "The Lord this, The Lord that" "because the ways of the Lord," and bla dee bloop and bla dee bla.. Gets me wondering if the Lord himself doesn't sometimes feel like puckin!

I see you closer to being a Christian tha many Psalm singin' donkeys I've met that think they're better or holier than regular folks.

On the other side I am blessed to be aquainted with the "Real Mc Coy".

And believe me, there's a LOT of 'em around!

Take, for instance my dear friend Paulinho COE.

He's in jail for killin' some 700 guys (he's an ex-cop, but 700 is far too much even for Brazilian police standards).

He's one of the sweetest guys I've seen in my life. He's also a "bad cottonpicker."

He has enemys in the police, and a couple of times he was put in a regular jail, that as you can figure out, is no place for a cop that "offed" 700 members of the "Comando Vermelho" (a kind of Brazilian Mafia) if he's suposed to saty somewhat alive.

Well, they never could kill him, and any jail that he's been in has become a far better place.

He's now at the BOPE , a kind of special operations headquarters for the military police.

When he arrived there the place was a franchise of hell. An average of two guys gettin' killed monthly.

He told me how he "tamed" the joint.

"Ion, my brother, I had to pretend I was the old (pre-being born again) Paulinho."

"The "tough guy" was this big blond mean dude. I walked to him, looked in his eyes and stepped on his foot. He got pale ".(Paulinho is no stranger among cops and robbers)

"The guy was really scared, he was a bully and a coward"

"I steped on his foot and told him:"

"You gonna shout: 'I'm a "viado' (a sissy), and loud!"

He did it.

"I said: 'LOUDER!!'

He shouts so that the whole darn joint can hear; "EU SOU VIADO!!" Due to the SS policy about keeping the language clean I'll refrain from translating this).

Ya know what? Today half of the inmates are christians, and visting folks can take their children with them.

If you ever get to meet him you will be in serious danger of... becoming a Christian!

Erle Lentz is what I call a Christian. He owns a big factory and he lives rather modestly, far behind the standards of a guy that owns a factory that employs some thousands of people

Most of his dough goes into orphanages, old people's homes, and he's always ready to sign a check if some pastor is having a cash problem in his church.

He's what you call a "big shot", but he's never too busy to take my calls.

I once rang his cell phone, and he greeted me, saked if I was doin' fine, and after a couple of minuts said,

"Ion, forgive me, I won't be able to chat with you, i'm here talking to Mr. so-and-so (that turns out to be the Minister of finance of President Fernando Henrique's administration).

And there's a lot more where those came from...

But, if you forgive me the digression, I just would like to say that Stuka Stunt is a LOT more then a place for exchanging ideas and information on - like my brother Bob Hunt says when he's doin' the "humble Hunt " act - little toy airplanes.

It's a place were people come in order to satisfy one of the most basic human needs, maybe the most important one after feeding, procreating and not freezing to death: the need of being with other people, of what is nowadays called "socializing".

And just like in stunt, socializing has rules that one must follow if your dealings with other people are not to crash.

The stunt-related issues are clearly voiced here, they tell us the best place for the CG of an Impact, the proper way to break in an ABC engine, and so on. But the props, CG's and fuel percentages of socializing we learn by experience, .

Stuka Stunt has become a place were true friendship, fairness, religious and political tolerance are constantly, albeit not in the form of direct advice - being taught.

I can say I'm proud of being part of this project that deals wit making better people out of us, using tje international language of stunt!

Ion, I do believe that you have come pretty close to figuring out how I am. I also believe that Paulinho must be a pretty good shot and have a endless supply of ammo. As we say here and you probably do down there as well he must also have a big set.....

>Ion, I do believe that you have come pretty close to
>figuring out how I am. I also believe that Paulinho must be
>a pretty good shot and have a endless supply of ammo. As we
>say here and you probably do down there as well he must also
>have a big set.....

Bill, Paulinho is doing time.

but he is a helluva shot.

When he was 18 intead of serving the arny, navy or air force he was, for some reason, enlisted in the DOI-CODE, a anti guerrila unit the was art of the military dictatorship we has from 64 to 84.

He would soend a week in the Amazon with wate by his neck (surival), he can use (and well) any fire weapom, any comunication device and he knows all kinds of martial arts.
He once, whole patroling a slum, ran into seen drug dealers, each ome with an automatic or a M-1 or an AK 47.

Before they thouhgt about using their guns they were dead, each omr with a holw in the head.

But asked by the press what would hapen if this took place nhow, that he belongs to God, he answered,

"I'd die".

Once he was put at "Agua Santa" a bad jail, and 30% of the "guests" were there because of him.

Even being on a separete cell he was in danger.

One night some guys bribed the guard and got the keys for his cell, and they were going to kill him at midnight.

But he also had his own informant, end he was informed.

He said:

"only seven?", and laughed.

No sooner they got in his cell they were all "takin a count"...

One morning he decided to go to the sunbath. Some 50 guys from the "Comando Vermelho" were there.

They alsays stick together. He walked towards them, with his Bible and two apple boxes that he used as a pulpit.

The guys were so surprised that they opened space for him untill he reached the wall. He was a dead man...

All of 'em guys had some kind of perforating object, and they sure were gonna off him.

He said he wasn;t afraid of dying, but that they'd hae to wait, he wa goiing to "unscroll the scroll" (untranslatable pun)

Well, they let heim open his bible, and after some 15 minutes they were all on their knees, asking for God's mercy.

That's Paulo (his name is Paulo de Tarso, or in english Paul of Tarsis), a brother in Christ I love a lot.